Question for IT Network Admins

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 03:54 PM

Hoping for a little help/advice....

I completed my B/ENG degree in Computer Network and Distributed Systems about 6 years ago.

Since then, that hasn't been my type of work...I've been in electronics/avionics (still doing IT on the side but no "server" type stuff).
This year the company I work for is expanding into a brand new building (2 storey), and will be setting up a decent sized network throughout the building.
I will be majorly involved in this...from network cabling plans to setting up the server OS, workstations, users, policies etc....

SO...I have been looking around for short courses to bring me to to scratch on Server OS's and network administration...I learned my degree mainly on NT4 and would like to learn the new features on Server 2003 etc...

I found one that sounds pretty good (its an MS one):

HERE

I was wondering if anyone here can suggest any short courses that I can attend that will help me bring my quals up to speed, similar to the one I posted.

Thanks for any help...

sgt_doofey · 21-02-2007, 04:05 PM

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/training/default.mspx

Might be a good place to start. Have a look at the courses and then find some businesses that run them.

EA2BA · 21-02-2007, 04:06 PM

What backend do they run now, planning to migrate or fresh install of everything, do you intend to upgrade the existing servers to 2003 (not a good idea).

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 04:37 PM

Nah...just now we only run a Workgroup where everyone uses their own laptops/pcs...we use Server 2000 as the OS...but it's a little overkill for our current setup. So it will be a fresh install...clean start...we run a VPN between 2 locations but thats done through the firewall anyway(Watchguard).

The new setup will run a Domain and workstation setup.

Just looking to brush up my skills and be able to manage a small network (around 20 users atm).

Tuddy200 · 21-02-2007, 05:28 PM

Depnds if your looking mainly at Windows Server 2003 as the OS, or more what Windows Server 2003 can do on the network, like ISA, Exchange, SharePoint. I'm guessing that is all managed at the other end of the VPN??

Therefore you only need to set-up one server with DNS, DCHP, WINS, FILE
Server and all would b sweet? From what you state you just need a course in Windows Server 2003 and personally i think you;d still know more then most network administrators out there.

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 05:38 PM

Yea, the VPN is only setup so we can share files from our 2 offices a few kms away. No fancy stuff.
We dont even really need Exchange, ISA, Sharepoint...although they may come in handy as the company grows over the next couple of years. As I said, its been a while since I actually "used" my degree and a lot of it has dissapeared from the seive that is my brain...lol...

Rodp · 21-02-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

Yea, the VPN is only setup so we can share files from our 2 offices a few kms away. No fancy stuff.
We dont even really need Exchange, ISA, Sharepoint...although they may come in handy as the company grows over the next couple of years. As I said, its been a while since I actually "used" my degree and a lot of it has dissapeared from the seive that is my brain...lol...

Unless you can tailor a course, at least for me, nothing beats just tinkering with the stuff. Won't cost you a cent, either. Sat in many courses over the years and unless it's tailored to what you want, 90% of it is a waste of time and you're asleep for the other 10%

Sounds like what your business is trying to do is not all that complex. I have 2 machines on constantly as well as 2 other Intel servers and 2 Sun servers at home. Even with only the 2 machines I have on, running something like VMWare I can have 10 virtual servers running at one time.

I'm currently running a beta of VMWare Workstation but if you torrent I'm sure you'll be able to find a version. On my other machine I have a 2003 DC, 2003 with Exchange, SUSE, Solaris and a few XP clients running right on my Vista desktop. If I bunk something up, I have a PXE server running on the DC and can re-image or deploy another server OS in a few minutes.

You've got the basics down, you never forget those, just frig with the new stuff, if you focus on what you think you'll be doing I guarantee you'll get more out of discovering it by yourself than sitting in a course being bored out of your brain.

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 07:15 PM

Yea...some good points there...Its true too...tinkering gains you a LOT of knowledge...

But if the company is going to pay for it, I reckon I should go on one just for the sake of it...

That one I'm looking at is the first in a series of courses that prepares you to sit the Server 2003 MSCA exam so that would be a really handy qual to have...

OED666 · 21-02-2007, 07:52 PM

make sure they get some decent servers, that will cover them for a for a few years at least. it might be an overkill at the moment, but you will thank yourself in the future.

doesnt the company you work for have any mail system setup.

if you do get exchange, in my opinion and experience your better off having a separate exchange server to your file and print. and also dont forget a good backup solution is a must.

i have done the MS 2003 server and exchange courses. both have been pretty useful for my work.

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 08:09 PM

The company uses an online mail server company.
I dont they they realise the benefits of Exchange, own mail server etc...I dont know the ins and outs of them myself, so I'll have a read up and let them know the benefits of such services....

We backup to tape at the moment...and of course have RAID in place. Its a bodgy setup but it works....the new place will be set up schmick....

Quasi · 21-02-2007, 08:25 PM

Here's some online resources to help out:

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/

http://www.isaserver.org/

http://www.msterminalservices.org/

http://www.msexchange.org/

OED666 · 21-02-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

The company uses an online mail server company.
I dont they they realise the benefits of Exchange, own mail server etc...I dont ...

That must be a pre-requisite for being an MD or GM. Have no idea about anything IT related, and turn a blind eye, until someone comes up with a better/more efficient/make more money way of doing things and all they care about is $$$.

I know from my old work, we had around 150Gb of data, and only 36Gb on our server, and also could only backup 36Gb. After 18 months of stuffing around, and a near disaster, we finally got an awesome upgrade.

Same with my wifes work. They have just migrated to exchange 5.5!!!

I have had a look over propasals for upgrades, and the guy who looks after the network etc, is pushing for a $35k upgrade, which the directors dont like.

Good luck with your upgrade, and make sure you put in everything you need straight up. The top dogs hate approving for extra funds half way through projects.

XA-Coupe · 21-02-2007, 09:07 PM

M$ courses I found not much use in real life ... the internet was my saviour... I learned more by using google than anything.
For 20 users, try Small Business Server .. it's a good package for less than 50 users.

the_scotsman · 21-02-2007, 10:21 PM

Been having a read on Small Business Server...sounds quite ideal for the company...I haven't fully grasped the concepts of Exchange / Sharepoint...but I get the basic gist of them...looks like I'll have to hit them up and explain to them the benefits of a setup such as this....

jonk · 22-02-2007, 12:26 AM

I'd seriously be looking into 'software as a service' type of layout. It's purely overkill to set up massive networks when all you have is workstations/laptops.

Work on getting 'bandwith' between your office's - compression, allocation of usage etc. It's toxic stuff what your doing, your new and you don't have a good grasp of what's happening out there now.

One good thing is, they actually use online email service, it's now in vogue to do most of your software stuff online these days - MS et al have made it so expensive to deploy, manage and update networks for small businesses. The trend OS is to lease online software that use to reside on networks, you can still be admin but without the hardware headaches/software patching constant trouble shooting.

Just get really good bandwith happening between your offices.

the_scotsman · 22-02-2007, 02:15 AM

That is another option too I know but...

As I said we do have workgroups atm...but we will be moving to a Domain setup in the new building regardless...if we are going to move to a domain, we may as well take advantage of the services provided by SBS...thats all I thought...we can make use of Exchange and Sharepoint, it's just never been suggested to the company.

DivHunter · 22-02-2007, 02:31 PM

Sharepoint you probably won't use, Exchange is part of the SBS setup and SBS is really easy to set-up and get going.

the_scotsman · 22-02-2007, 03:01 PM

Yea, SBS sounds really good...ideal for what we need...regarding Sharepoint...I'm not sure but what we were thinking of doing is creating some sort of intranet where employees can fill in HR forms etc rather than open them in Word, print them out, fill them in and fax them to the main office...is that the sort of thing Sharepoint could be used for, or maybe something easier we could employ?

Thanks for all the help too...

Hunter · 22-02-2007, 05:10 PM

Sharepoint isn't terrible, but SBS 2003 is. Seriously, SBS 2003, when it came out, had so many bugs and so many problems that I literally had clients wanting to pick their server up and throw it out the window.

Microsoft's support for SBS 2003 is pretty crap as well and 9/10 times they didn't give a toss about whatever problems our clients were having.

Strangely enough, most of the SBS user groups are filled with 'empowered' women... I'm not joking, there are so many ladies on the forums, groups etc it seems kinda wierd or maybe touchy-feely kind of marketing that Microsoft brought in. Or maybe just the market that buys something like SBS

.

the_scotsman · 22-02-2007, 05:17 PM

lol...but SBS is just server 2003 with other features added on really isnt it?

Also, it turns out we have another geek in the company...Linux nerd....he's going to push for Linux over MS Server...how can I convince them not to do this? Damn geeks!!!

Hunter · 22-02-2007, 05:21 PM

SBS, in a nutshell, is pretty much as you say just Server 2003 with other features. But those features aren't anywhere near as powerful/useful as their full-blown counterparts. The Exchange server is severely limited in its capacity, as is the SQL server component. Then there's the limitations on who can connect to it etc. I can see why Microsoft *thought* there was a market, and in reality there are lot of places that need an entry level solution but what Microsoft thinks it can do and what it actually does generally are miles apart (Vista anyone?).

They're going to try again with their home server crap or whatever it is they call it, and Longhorn server (which is the server you're 'supposed' to use with Vista).

As for Linux, well I wouldn't touch it at the moment purely because of the fact that there is still a lot of wrangling about the new GPL license, which could potentially cause some legal (e.g. copyright) issues down the track.

My operating system of choice for servers is either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Or a Unix OS if you can afford it.

atec77 · 22-02-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

Hoping for a little help/advice....

I completed my B/ENG degree in Computer Network and Distributed Systems about 6 years ago.

Since then, that hasn't been my type of work...I've been in electronics/avionics (still doing IT on the side but no "server" type stuff).
This year the company I work for is expanding into a brand new building (2 storey), and will be setting up a decent sized network throughout the building.
I will be majorly involved in this...from network cabling plans to setting up the server OS, workstations, users, policies etc....

SO...I have been looking around for short courses to bring me to to scratch on Server OS's and network administration...I learned my degree mainly on NT4 and would like to learn the new features on Server 2003 etc...

I found one that sounds pretty good (its an MS one):

HERE

I was wondering if anyone here can suggest any short courses that I can attend that will help me bring my quals up to speed, similar to the one I posted.

Thanks for any help...

What use it intended ? a simple server would be e-smith/sem server avoiding a certain cost and it is idiot proof ( I can use it) there maybe no need for a course or if you really have to sort out a winblows box then a simple xp pro box running viking proxy , I recommend you google viking server as its a great bit of gear . Now if you really must have training then we can sort a course via tafe , of course with some work you might be able to rpl say an advanced dip in network engineering ? have a think and get back to us

Turbot · 22-02-2007, 07:22 PM

For only 20 odd users SBS 2003 would suit perfectly, theres tons of advantages by running your own exchange server, shared caladers, tasks etc and share point. However I think the biggest hurdle you'll find is moving the users from a workgroup to a domain as doing this will create a new profile i.e they will logon to a fresh new desktop, no icons, no mail setup, no favorites etc. Search google for a profile migration procedure.

XA-Coupe · 22-02-2007, 07:28 PM

It's very easy to do a basic batch file to copy data all over the place... assuming people save their data in a standard location.
The limitations of SBS are deliberate as there is little need for the full blown versions in a small business.
Linux is great, linux is free ... but when your linux nerd mate moves on finding someone who can do all of what he did is not easy, well, not as easy as windows. All of a sudden you are at the mercy of a few.

the_scotsman · 22-02-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbot

For only 20 odd users SBS 2003 would suit perfectly, theres tons of advantages by running your own exchange server, shared caladers, tasks etc and share point.

Lol thanks Turbot..I was waiting for someone to say that...just to make me feel I was saying the right thing....hehe

At the moment everyone has their own laptops etc...starting fresh on a Domain won't be a problem...I'd rather start fresh and install things we need, rather than migrating stuff over from laptops etc...

I like the idea of shared calendars, tasks etc...very handy...

As I asked before, what ammunation do I have against the Linux dweeb...I need backup as to how MS Server is better than running Linux...damn poindexter!

the_scotsman · 22-02-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

assuming people save their data in a standard location.

It isn't ...lol ...everyone got their own **** on their laptops where they want it...no coordinated structure...hence why I'll be starting fresh...

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

The limitations of SBS are deliberate as there is little need for the full blown versions in a small business.

Exactly...Sharepoint Services is all we'd need, theres no requirement for Sharepoint Server...and Exchange wouldn't be required to do much...just basics for a start...

XA-Coupe · 22-02-2007, 07:42 PM

tell them all to copy their stuff into their my docs ... the thinly veiled threat of data loss usually works for most people

It's a golden opportunity to get things set up properly from the start.

jimmy_c · 22-02-2007, 07:55 PM

Mate this is what i would do:

Small Business Server 2003
DNS
DHCP
Active Directory

-Exchange 2003 w/Callandar, tasks.
-Share point services. for Office 2003

VPN and end-to-end Firewall Solution

Central and offsite back up.

Linux is ok if you have time to **** about or want to run a dedicated DNS,DHCP but windows is fine.

**GET PEOPLE INTO THE HABIT** of backing up work related data. Save your self some hassle and look into Ghost Casting for Laptops and PC's

1 image for laptops 1 image for PCs. Standardise too. this helps a **** load.

Get something grunty from HP or IBM and it probably will come with SBS2003. Stay away from Dell. PM if you need anymore info,.

jimmy_c · 22-02-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

tell them all to copy their stuff into their my docs ... the thinly veiled threat of data loss usually works for most people

It's a golden opportunity to get things set up properly from the start.

XA-Coupe I had a Professor loose 5 years of PhD students data and research. He thought entrusting all his priceless files on an laptop was ok.

: She went bang in a big way last week. I got two directories out of about 500.

the_scotsman look at something like dantz back up for networks. Backs up a directory upon login or log-off.

Hunter · 22-02-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

XA-Coupe I had a Professor loose 5 years of PhD students data and research. He thought entrusting all his priceless files on an laptop was ok.

: She went bang in a big way last week. I got two directories out of about 500.

the_scotsman look at something like dantz back up for networks. Backs up a directory upon login or log-off.

For what they are, Academics are frequently completely ignorant of computers or how easy it is to lose data. I work for a uni, and there's been many instances of people storing data on locally on their workstation (instead of their home drive like they're advised to do so) then when the hard drive dies they are mortified to learn their data is now off in the digital ether. Or if they then save it on their usb stick thinking its somehow immune to failure. Oh well, they keep me employed, I'm not going to complain

.