Banning the Light Bulb

[petera]

have you seen the fluro down light? they look good, and the light is not that bad ether

[EL XR8]

Yeah, the fluro style downlights aren't too bad, just expensive atm.
The problem, (if you couldn't tell i'm a sparky) is that i won't get the job to wire up someone's downlights if i am paying 2-3x more for a different LED or fluro downlight setup, when in reality all look similar.
People, just wont pay the extra cash for that kind of stuff.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Factor in the longevity of the mini fluro lights. The incandescent bulb is designed to fail and need regular replacement (this is the "big end of town" doing what it does best... and you're supporting it?!?!?!). A mini fluro will pay for itself after 2 years...and from then on you're "ahead".

The "big end of town" will actually be worse off. But hey, dont let the facts get in the way of a good old government bashing!!

I looked around my house last night and there's not a single fitting that wont accept one of these globes. Looking for more detail on this one, sport!!

PS My supermarket gives me a plastic bag if i ask for it. I use this to empty my rubbish with. Man, those monsters down at the Glad factory must be furious!

What chance does our planet have when such ridiculous reasons for opposing environmental initiatives are brought forward???

Actually spoke to someone in the lighting industry sport! Basically it won't happen anytime soon because the govt hasn't consulted the industry. There is a large range of light fittings, designer lights and aesthetic arrangements that won't take the mini fluros - because they're not so mini. In our house for example probably about a third of the lights and lamps won't take them. And if you can fit a small one in, it doesn't give enough illumination.

I'm all in favour of them - I have them fitted where lights are left on if the fittings take them. But its something that will take several years to implement and people will have to aesthetically accept bigger lumpier fittings and forget about some types of chandeliers, designer lights and the like.

Again, cost to the individual. This is all about the govt improving its poor environmental image in the lead up to an election.

Plastic bags. Again good idea but nobody has thought it out. There are plastic bag free towns in Australia. But the environmental flip side is you need a car to carry the shopping home because you can't get on a bus with several boxes. There could be cost compensation for Joe public if the supermarkets then reduced their prices because they don't have to supply plastic bags. Like pigs will fly eh? (Well, I guess Aldi does it but I don't see to many Aldi customers get onto a bus)

I'm in favour of these things. But I used to work in an environmental agency and I've seen plenty of examples of bright ideas put up by airheads (and swallowed by politicians desperate for votes) without mapping out a practical plan to bring it about. You can't save the environment just by making declarations and edicts. You have to work at it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Actually spoke to someone in the lighting industry sport! Basically it won't happen anytime soon because the govt hasn't consulted the industry. There is a large range of light fittings, designer lights and aesthetic arrangements that won't take the mini fluros - because they're not so mini. In our house for example probably about a third of the lights and lamps won't take them. And if you can fit a small one in, it doesn't give enough illumination.

I'm all in favour of them - I have them fitted where lights are left on if the fittings take them. But its something that will take several years to implement and people will have to aesthetically accept bigger lumpier fittings and forget about some types of chandeliers, designer lights and the like.

Again, cost to the individual. This is all about the govt improving its poor environmental image in the lead up to an election.

NO, I don't believe it. Are you saying that the government propaganda machine are publicising a backroom policy from "experts" who have never actually had any contact with the area they are "experts" in?

Are you implying that the gullible media will just jump on this and run making us feel all warm and fuzzy?
"Lightbulbs overboard" maybe? David Hicks could be the new "Minister for Lightbulbs" possibly? A national body overseeing the states use of lightbulbs "for the good of our children"?

Maybe they need the "new zealand government experts", I have seen it written that they are really really clever.

/sarcasm

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

Others in the industry would have done the research needed for the government to make this decision.....it's not a call they make when calling for tea or coffee.

Got it in one. The decision makers in this case are the marketing/polling/ELECTION people.

"Hmm your numbers are down in the Polls John and Green is always good for a few points. How about we try Rivers and Light globes and see how it goes"

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by EL XR8

Yeah, the fluro style downlights aren't too bad, just expensive atm.
The problem, (if you couldn't tell i'm a sparky) is that i won't get the job to wire up someone's downlights if i am paying 2-3x more for a different LED or fluro downlight setup, when in reality all look similar.
People, just wont pay the extra cash for that kind of stuff.

Hopefully with the increased volume the manufacturers can significantly reduce the piece cost. In the end it's all about volume. Material & production piece costs reduce the more you make. You also can justify more efficient production facilities and tooling with the greater volume - this further reduces cost.

The authorities are saying that the huge increase sales will bring the prices right down. Lets hope so.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Got it in one. The decision makers in this case are the marketing/polling/ELECTION people.

"Hmm your numbers are down in the Polls John and Green is always good for a few points. How about we try Rivers and Light globes and see how it goes"

That is 100% correct. But the idea does have merit. I bet Johnnie has a closet FULL of these good idea's.

[Annie1962]

The environmentally safe lightbulbs are long and all the ones I've seen so far stick out of lamps and make them look ugly.. perhaps some shorter ones? And seeing that sattelite image of the world, sheesh look at the US!!

[Wally]

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

OK, you're over my head and went quite a bit off track. Like I said, you know your stuff no doubt what I am saying is the government will also have people of your knowledge and possibly better to work out the ins & outs of what bulbs do and which has better benefits.


Cheers.

I generally disagree with that. Part of an electrical apprenticeship is to learn the various electrical relationships, formulae and the aggragated effects of inductive loads and capacitive loads in polis situations, just like they need to know how to calculate maximum demand. Power factor is a core subject in that training as is VAR (basically unusable or wasted power) and is not techno babble to a sparky.

I guess what I'm saying is that Flappist's post does not require validation of an electrical engineer, it's basic trade knowledge. In practice a power station feels the effect of power factor, especially when there are excessive inductive loads, requiring increased generation capacity and fuel consumption. The upshot may be the additional cost to householders of installing correction devices.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Annie1962

The environmentally safe lightbulbs are long and all the ones I've seen so far stick out of lamps and make them look ugly.. perhaps some shorter ones? And seeing that sattelite image of the world, sheesh look at the US!!

They are starting to appear in all shapes and sizes now. I even found some that wil fit into a ceiling fan.
Cheers.

[XYGTHO]

It does not surprise me. I do alot of lighting design in my job (electrical design draftsperson) and in the new Building Code of Australia (BCA) they have added a section for Energy effeciency. We are only allowed so many watts per metre squared of lighting now in designs. Cleaners rooms are the worst. You are only allowed 3watts per metre sq and cleaners rooms are usually only like 3m sq so your allowed about 13watts with added factors. Trying to find a fitting to take a 9 - 11w min fluro etc is hard enough but tryingh to get it to the right lighting level (lux) can be pretty hard sometimes. However as said a 60w incandescent will put out less than half of the lumens a 18w fluro tube will and the tube will last 5 times longer and use 3 time sless power. People should be going this way anyhow to get their power bills down. the only thing is what about cars etc and ovens? Also i don't like using fluro's in cleaners closets and residential toilets anyhow cause constant switching reduces their life a hell of a lot. Incandescents are just better for some things. All these regulations are making design interesting though and adding a liitle more time to every job.

[XYGTHO]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

They are starting to appear in all shapes and sizes now. I even found some that wil fit into a ceiling fan.
Cheers.

Yes you can get them to just about fit into anything these days. It can take hours to find the right light fittings and stuff, there are just so many and they vary in price so much.

[XYGTHO]

Originally Posted by XYSEDAN

i think its stupid!
they dont have dimmer switches for those fluro globes do they?
AND I CANT SEE PROPERLY WITH FLURO GLOBES!
as shannon noel said "what about me, it isnt fair"
im not happy jan!

You can dim fluro's but a the moment it is fairly expensive. I always thought you should see better.

[Lukeyson]

i hate the energy saver ones, the light that comes off them i find it really hard to read and its just wierd looking.


so i go through about 3 bulbs a year throughout my house, so i will start stock piling the old bulbs !!! haha, about $90 worth will last me till i die

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by XR8fella

i hate the energy saver ones, the light that comes off them i find it really hard to read and its just wierd looking.


so i go through about 3 bulbs a year throughout my house, so i will start stock piling the old bulbs !!! haha, about $90 worth will last me till i die

They have already thought of people like you. They will have little vans driving around with special filament light globe detectors..... bingo, new source of revenue!!

[arby]

Whilst it may not say the world, it is a start. Hopefully it will get people thinking about energy efficiency. Whilst they may not be able to make much of a difference at home they can think how they can apply it at the workplace and get real savings.

The real interesting thing here is the banning of a product due to its efficiencies - what’s next? Banning cheap 2 star air conditioners?

[xbgs351]

Fluorescent lights act exactly the same as a strobe light does when flashing at 50 cycles per second. This can be very hazardous around machinery as it can make some machines appear to be stationery and appear harmless when they are not.

[punktured]

Originally Posted by petera

have you seen the fluro down light? they look good, and the light is not that bad ether

They look shite! We put around 12-14 in a home gym and the light was shocking, they had a light output compared to a 25w halogen globe and the room really needed another 10 so you could see properly. It also made the room feel very cold.

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The incandescent bulb is designed to fail and need regular replacement

If you buy cheap ones yes, our downlight globes are around 7 years old and most other globes are a few years old.