Mid Sized Japs - What to look at?

Paxton · 25-09-2005, 07:37 PM

The Wife wants a new car, and I want to get rid of the Lexus, so we have decided to look at the Subaru Liberty, the Honda Accord Euro and the Mitsubishi 380 Verada as cars to drive. The 380 Verada (I have no idea about the name of the luxury model, so lets call it the Verada) is a late entry, after viewing the pictures of the 380 here on the forum.

My parents have owned two Liberties in their time, a First Gen GX, and a Third Gen Heritage, and both being My Mother's car were not the best looked after cars. My Mother knows nothing about cars, where my Father will change oil and do simple mechanical work, and we still could not kill it. God knows I tried. Especially the First Gen.

My Wife likes the Accord Euro, however them being a Front Wheel drive, I would rather look at a Fairmont Ghia, however I can't justify two large Fords. The Accord we looked at today was the Luxury Pack, and the dealer could have one on the road for $42,000 less trade in. The Liberty is $45,000 on the road, and that is the Premium Pack.

It is anyones guess how much the 380 Verada will cost, and also what it will have in it. I am not really a fan of the Magna Verada, but if they are cheap enough, I will have a look at them.

I personally think the one I will be happier to drive, and the one that will be the best investment is the Liberty. They are AWD, safe and comfortable. I would also like a manual, but SWMBO burns out clutches too fast, so we are becoming an Auto only family.

To conclude, what are your opinions of the Honda Accord Euro and the Subaru Liberty, and also, what would you buy if you had the same shortlist.

Apologies for such a long post. When I started to write this, I anticipated two or three lines. It is now MUCH longer than that.

-Andrew

aimzes · 25-09-2005, 07:45 PM

liberty. gorgeous car inside and out. i dont like the accords at all, especially since they have a badge saying "euro" on them... cheapens the car imo.

MITCHAY · 25-09-2005, 07:52 PM

My boss recently bought a Liberty GT. If finances stretch that far Id recommend you take one for a test drive. Even though its still getting run in its still pretty damn quick. Nice and comfy.

Fairlane · 25-09-2005, 07:55 PM

Theres so many good mid-size cars these days, you pretty much cant go wrong. Liberty's a damn nice car and with AWD you cant go wrong.

I suppose if you really wanted to check out some other car i suppose you could check out the Mazda 6 MPS (i think its out), Nissan Maxima (probably to big) or something like a Toyota Camry Azura. Or if you really wanted to go out you could check out an Audi A4 but thats probably too dear.

Psycho Chicken · 25-09-2005, 07:57 PM

I'd be trying to get a 3.0 Liberty, will hold resale that little bit better, plus they are a lot more fun than the atmo 2.0 and 2.5. Infact stay away from the 2.0, they are so gutless it's not funny.

Kryton · 25-09-2005, 08:40 PM

Liberty or Maxima.

pauljh74 · 25-09-2005, 08:45 PM

Also Mazda 6. Honda Accord Euro is very good too, then I'd day Liberty
Mazda $42910 for an auto Luxury Sports

Paxton · 25-09-2005, 08:49 PM

I'm not going to buy a Maxima on the principle that it is an old man's car, and very Tinny. The Camry is a heap of ugly crap, and I would not touch one with a barge pole. The Mazda 6 is one I left off the list. I think they would be a nice car to drive, however the NVH issues that come with the car were enough to turn me off one. I will have a look at one this week, but I would rather the series two model, not the series one.

-Andrew

Yaw · 25-09-2005, 08:53 PM

Mazda 6 sp23 if your gunna go that way, Honda the Accord Euro Lux are very nice, both hold resale well, but I would wait to see the 380 myself also its only a few weeks away. Get her a monthly bus ticket in the short term

:

sfr rob · 25-09-2005, 08:54 PM

I say liberty GT wagon, vrx-380 or VERADA 380 when they come out!
they are the 2 i am tossing up between for a new car next year.

cheers mate
Rob

25-09-2005, 08:55 PM

what model lexus is she in now ,i wanted to get an IS200 but couldn't find anyone to ask how they run???.
If you have the money a Honda is my choice

25-09-2005, 09:12 PM

I'd say Liberty, they are built well with very low levels of NHV, very impressive. Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't wanna be ripped off with resale. If the Mitsu 380 takes after the Magna, a fleet car that no one wants at the end, goodbye to 3/4 of the cars value after 3 years, where its safe to say Subarus and Honda hold their value a lot better.

If I was in your position I would also think about the new Sonata, 96-00 Maxima or the 2004-onward, Accord Euro and the Mazda 6.

Paxton · 25-09-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampy

what model lexus is she in now ,i wanted to get an IS200 but couldn't find anyone to ask how they run???.
If you have the money a Honda is my choice

Mate, she has a 1999 IS200, which is 2 Litre, Straight 6, Rear Wheel Drive and Auto. It goes, and when poked shows some character, but isn't anything to write home about. It is well built, and handles almost as good as the XR6 my Territory replaced. It has been driven to its limits and back again, and has left me with a lasting impression of the Lexus as a car to be reckoned with, but to leave their Camry (ES300) to the cardigan club. I am happy that the car has been reliable and safe for my Wife to drive into Sydney for work, and amazingly not damage it, unlike the Territory, which was almost murdered.

I would not hesitate to reccomend one to anybody, just make sure you get the Manual, because the Auto is an old Cressida box.

Also, there is NO SUCH THING as a Mazda 6 SP23, that is the Mazda 3. I want two sedans, which is why I have not mentioned any real wagons, with the exception of the Liberty.

-Andrew

EL_futuraistic · 25-09-2005, 09:33 PM

The liberty is an incredibly nice, well-built vehicle. Totally agree the camry is the ugliest POS i have seen (however refined and reliable it is), the Mazda6 always get good reviews, however it is FWD. It all depends if economy is an issue.

Having driven all these vehicles i would go the liberty. The 2.0 is a bit gutless in auto guise, but still a nicer vehicle i think than the Mazda6. If fuel consumption is an issue, maybe consider the Mazda as its only FWD.

AU-MUSTD · 25-09-2005, 09:45 PM

As the owner of a gen 4 liberty luxury l highly recomend this car. The way i'd go is to get the 3ltr as it has great power and also uses less fuel than the 2.5( We have the 2.5 and my dad has the 3ltr) Ours uses about 9.5 ltrs / per 100 and my dad gets about 8.5. Definatly dont go the 2ltr as i'd hate to have any less power than our 2.5 has got it'd be a joke to drive. Happy hunting.

SpoolMan · 25-09-2005, 09:54 PM

Have a look at a Mazda 3, good size and value...

The Taipan · 25-09-2005, 09:54 PM

Am I the only one who isn't all that impressed with the Liberty? I must confess I haven't driven the current model, but the changes aren't that huge are they?

I was extremely dissapointed with power and roominess. If these things have been updated, then feel free to disregard my comments. As for its AWD "advantage" both the Accord Euro and in particular the Mazda6 felt better on the road too. I'd love to try the new 6 because my biggest problem with the 6 was the four speed auto.

Have a great time shopping, do VW have anything worth looking at? I think at the end of the day the three cars mentioned above will give you years of motoring pleasure and are likely to be fairly problem free, and so your biggest regrets are going to be with the everyday things... eg the orientation of the switches, seat feel, boot accesibility, something with actual bolstering under your legs...

I don't really want to sound like I am bashing the Subaru, but being AWD you need to consider higher fuel consumption, servicing costs etc...etc... A well driven BF Falcon (or CCComodore - did I just say that!) will not lose too much on consumption to one of these things, and throw in the lower cost of running these things added comfort and versatility...

The other vehicle you may not have considered, but is EXTREMELY impressive value is the new six-cylinder Sonata (yes Hyundai!) a massive improvement on anything they have released in the past, and an engine which has real class. Although the idea of going from a Lexus (in terms of label factor) to a Hyundai is kinda strange idea - but I'd at least make sure whatever you pick can hold its own against this car...

My #1 vote - Mazda6 MPS.
#2 - Liberty B4 - despite my bashing there is a lot going for the top end models
#3 - Euro
#4 - 6 Luxury (#3 if power isn't that big a problem)
#5 - Sonata

V8falcons · 25-09-2005, 09:55 PM

Yes I would have to agree with the liberty suggestions, but I could be a little bias as we have a Outback 3.0R ,do your self a favour and drive a 3.0r Liberty or Outback you will be suprised at the performance,though a word of warning the 3ltr isnt shy when it comes to servos if driven moderately.
And the 3.0R can only run on premium 95 or 98 which is costly these days.
The 2.5ltr is a great performer with better fuel economy

Paxton · 25-09-2005, 10:29 PM

I have a problem Taipan. When Hyindai first started to sell well in Australia, about 8 years ago, I told my Parents and Brother "I will never buy any of that Korean Crap. They only last 5 minutes before they are useless". To this day, I have kept that vow, and I anticipate keeping that for the foreseeable future. The new Sonata is a nice car, however the previous owners of the car were my Wife's parents. They bought the car, and then decided it wasn't what they wanted, so they sold it to us for a small amount (<$20,000). I can't exactly turn around and say to them, 'Oh, we traded the Lexus on a Hyundai. It is a great car. No really'. See my dilemma?

I believe the H6 Liberty to be just inside my price range. The 5 Speed auto is what I want, and fuel consumption isn't that bigger problem. My Wife knows how to pump fuel, so I am not too worried about that, and also I anticipate getting $25,000 for the Lexus, so for $25,000 a Liberty H6 seems a good deal. The proof will be in the drive . I know the Territory was.

-Andrew

Paxton · 25-09-2005, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

Have a look at a Mazda 3, good size and value...

My brother has a Mazda 3. His Wife loves it, however theirs is a Manual. I do like driving theirs, which is a Maxx Sport, however I don't think I could live with the interior. It is too 'ricer' for my liking, especially the dash and the HVAC illumination, which is a garish red. Just IMHO.

-Andrew

The Taipan · 25-09-2005, 10:37 PM

Yeah point taken, I don't think I could take the Hyundai yet either, but its created enough interest to make me sit up and listen for the first time. It promises of some great products in the future, and it makes some of its peers look quite under equipped and under powered. They still need to improve the suspension/steering - which is the Mazda's gem, but the Liberty and Euro hold very well too.

AU-MUSTD · 25-09-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paxtonandrew

My brother has a Mazda 3. His Wife loves it, however theirs is a Manual. I do like driving theirs, which is a Maxx Sport, however I don't think I could live with the interior. It is too 'ricer' for my liking, especially the dash and the HVAC illumination, which is a garish red. Just IMHO.

-Andrew

Most models of liberty light up ricer red too.

Smoke Pursuit · 26-09-2005, 12:02 AM

Id go a Liberty or a runout Fairmont Ghia... You can pick them up for Less then $45,000, and its alot of car for the money. The bonus is that all the controls in both your cars will be basically identical!.

Biggoggs · 26-09-2005, 01:12 AM

What are you going to use it for anyway? Daily traffic driver? Family transporter? Illegal street racer?

Hmm. AWD, safe, comfortable, possibly manual... how about an R32 or R33 GT-R Skyline? :P So what if your significant other becomes scared stiff of it, at least it'd be fun

Between a Honda accord and Liberty, it might depend on what sort of driving you do. The Honda should(?) be cheaper in terms of parts, maintainence, and fuel, but don't take that as a hard fact.

Des · 26-09-2005, 08:27 AM

The wife and I had the same prob. I told her she could get what she wanted, we short listed the same cars (though both of us must have manuals). My main concern was that she'd get a safe car as she carries the little fella everyday.
We went the Mazda 6. She loved the styling, it's got plenty of grunt for her, handles like a dream and has one of the best shift actions you'll find. I think you'll find that the 6 will basically carry the same corner speeds, use less fuel, (as per Redbook) has better resale 79% vs 77% (2005 mk1 6 Luxury Sports Auto vs 2005 Liberty Sedan 2.5 Luxury Pack Auto) and comes standard with 8 airbags (Luxury also has 200w Bose stereo which rocks). The 6 has similar power (122kw 207nm vs 121kw 226nm) but is lighter. The 6 is also cheaper going by RRP (at least $2000).
Personally I felt that the Liberty was over priced considering that the 6 went better, handled just as good and had similar or better specs. Mazda's build quality is as good if not better to boot.
The missus loves it, happy wife = happy life....

MrSparkle · 26-09-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Taipan

Am I the only one who isn't all that impressed with the Liberty? I must confess I haven't driven the current model, but the changes aren't that huge are they?

Major changes in the latest version. Stiffer, lighter construction with more space and more power in all models. The engines have been redesigned too and are substantially different to the outgoing model. It is improved in every area!

I have driven most of the mid sizers except the Mazda6 and they each have their attractions. The Accord Euro is exceptionally well built and has a great engine and gearbox combo, but despite what you read, they are still an understeering specialist, especially in the wet. I have driven the entire Liberty range except the 2.0L and have been nearly impressed enough to get one (probably the GT).

I'd say if you are on a budget, go for the Liberty 2.5i or stretch this to the Premium model if you want the lux gear. They are a great looking car inside and out which is VERY well built and will hold it's value better than most, which for me anyway, is becoming more of a crucial point in a new car purchase. They also have a 5 star safety rating if that counts for anything.

For mine, at this pricepoint and for this size of vehicle, the Liberty is the pick for the above reasons. If you're happy with FWD then I'd probably recommend the Accord Euro.

Paxton · 26-09-2005, 09:10 AM

It will be a daily driver for her. My Wife's job is based in the city, and because of this, mixed with the Taxi Drivers, and Bus lanes, we need something that will stop as well as it goes in terms of driving. The Territory was a victim in terms of this. I am going to look at borrowing a Liberty, a Mazda 6 (for those that put doubts in my mind), a Honda Accord and a Fairmont Ghia. The 380 will be a great car, but I don't really want a Falcon sized car. I understand the ease of swapping cars (same controls etc) but I would rather a full sized smaller, and a more economical car. I will report back tonight after driving the Liberty H6 again. I hope to be in a car by the end of next week.

-Andrew

Des · 26-09-2005, 09:30 AM

Good luck....Not easy is it.

Paxton · 26-09-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

Good luck....Not easy is it.

With the amount of FWD cars out there, and the Wife having expensive taste, I am going to loose quite a bit of sleep over this. I know it already. Also, just before she left in the Territory for work, she asked me to look at a Camry Grandé. Just for comparison.

-Andrew

: Sitting in my Driveway is a 5000Km old Subaru Liberty H6. I have the car for 24 hours, and I have to say, going from a Lexus IS200, which is RWD, and easy to get into trouble in the wet, to an AWD Liberty, the difference is amazing. This looks to be the goer. Shame the Wife is at work all day. I'll take it out to Bundeena in an hour or so to test the grip and handling there.

Homer1 · 26-09-2005, 02:20 PM

I'd say Accord Euro all the way. The Liberty is good but the engine is loud and buzzy and the Mazda 6's interior feels cheap. With the Honda, you get a smooth free revving engine (which feels like a V6), and a great interior. I'd also cough up for the Luxury version too for the leather seats, 17" wheels, xenon headlights and sunroof. Don't let the fact that its FWD put you off, because for what you get its far superior value to the alternatives.