cat converter legally required?

Kryton · 16-07-2005, 09:41 PM

now if my memory serves me right, then legally a cat convertor has to be used if a car is running on unleaded.
i got thinking before about all the older cars that used to run on leaded petrol and figured that since alot of the owners have got the valves done to run unleaded, then shouldnt they also be running a cat convertor? (even cars that run flash lube too)
i seriously doubt that anybody would have even thought of this when they had the valves done and im sure the mechanics wouldnt have mentioned it either.
so this could leave a little grey area where all these cars are technically unroadworthy, which could leave RWC testers liable for passing an un-RWC car.
it could also leave you without insurance too (if they really didnt want to pay out your claim).
im sure the Greenies wouldnt like the extra pollution either.

so was making leaded petrol redundant really thought about properly in the first place?
feel free to comment and add your thoughts.

XRQTR · 16-07-2005, 10:08 PM

Unfortunately you have hit a grey area, I remember debating this over a lovely *cough* ciggy*cough*

: many years ago when they first started to introduce the non lead for leaded cars issue.

I think that it runs along the lines of not being able to make the retrofitting mandatory because the ADR of the vehicles at time of build did not specify the need for a catalytic converter, just as seat belts dont "have" to be fitted to cars that did not have them fitted as part of ADRs at the time of compliance/build.

: yes i am nutter :thebirds:

The MaDDeSTMaN · 16-07-2005, 11:13 PM

My understanding is that a cat is only required if the car came with one as standard, and they were only required to have a cat converter from January 1986, when it became compulsory for new cars to run on unleaded petrol. The authorities wouldn't consider it to be too much of a problem because they think that in another 10-15 years time, there will be few cars left on the roads which didn't come with a cat converter from the factory...

Psycho Chicken · 16-07-2005, 11:22 PM

Cats are only required on cars built after 1986, there's an ADR to go with it, 37 I think.

Running straight LPG doesn't get you off either.

347Stroker · 16-07-2005, 11:48 PM

So how does all motor bikes go then, they run on unleaded, and have no cats???

jzab · 17-07-2005, 12:04 AM

Unleaded fuel came in (in '86) with new emission regulations, and without a catalytic converter, the engine would not be able to the emissions regulations. As such it's not so much as "if you run unleaded you need to run a catalystic converter", it's more a case of "to meet the emissions requirements from '86 onwards, you need a catalytic converter". Catalytic converters can only operate on unleaded fuel so they came in together.
jzab

InitialD · 17-07-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Cats are only required on cars built after 1986, there's an ADR to go with it, 37 I think.

Running straight LPG doesn't get you off either.

are you sure? LOL I thought straight LPG ment no cat.

EDManual · 17-07-2005, 01:19 AM

i think you are right, no cat for LPG. do new dedicated gas falcons have cats?

Yaw · 17-07-2005, 07:13 AM

Many years ago when they ran the speedway at the brisbane exibition grounds they had a lot of complaints about the noise. My then neighbour drove a speedcar. They made it a rule that all the cars had to be fitted with what was called "turbo 500" mufflers. A very big bulky restricing muffler.
They looked so out of place sitting on the side of the cars. Of course this had an effect on the performance you could get out of the engine. So my then neighbour went through the rules regarding this and found that no where in the rules did it state the muffler had to have any guts inside it.
So of course he opened it up, removed the guts and welded it back together.
The Cat converter sits near the front of the exhaust system, if someone did the same thing on one of them, unless they pull it apart how would they know?
I guess there is the sensor they stick up the tail pipe to see what emmisions you are making. But I don't think they are looking for catlytic gases, to the best of my knowledge it just stops the bad smell of ULP.

geckoGT · 17-07-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

Many years ago when they ran the speedway at the brisbane exibition grounds they had a lot of complaints about the noise. My then neighbour drove a speedcar. They made it a rule that all the cars had to be fitted with what was called "turbo 500" mufflers. A very big bulky restricing muffler.
They looked so out of place sitting on the side of the cars. Of course this had an effect on the performance you could get out of the engine. So my then neighbour went through the rules regarding this and found that no where in the rules did it state the muffler had to have any guts inside it.
So of course he opened it up, removed the guts and welded it back together.
The Cat converter sits near the front of the exhaust system, if someone did the same thing on one of them, unless they pull it apart how would they know?
I guess there is the sensor they stick up the tail pipe to see what emmisions you are making. But I don't think they are looking for catlytic gases, to the best of my knowledge it just stops the bad smell of ULP.

Unfortunately you are off the mark. If they did an emissions test on the vehicle they would detect the gases that the cat is supposed to remove and therefore if they were nice they would tell you that you must replace the cat. If they wanted to be nasty, they could investigate and find out that you "gutted the cat", this is actually an offence under EPA laws and carries a huge fine. Not worth the trouble in my opinion!
A decent high flow cat flows very well and in terms of exhaust restriction, you would get more of a restriction from the bends of the exhaust over the rear axle. Unfortunately they are there for more than taking out the bad smell. I would imagine that you will find the ADR doesn't specify 'gas only' cars but mentions a compliance date of the vehicle. This would mean that all cars that were complianced after that date are required by law to have a functional cat, regardless of fuel. Cars that are complianced before the date do not, provided they have an engine from the era of regulations (or earlier). Interesting part is if you put a later model engine (post '86) in an earlier model car (pre '86), you have to comply with the later emission laws (to the best of my knowledge anyway). I may be wrong but I seem to remember reading that when the cars swapped over to cats. I know in late model engine transplants you have to run the emission equipment that is relevant for that engine. Imagine, a XP falcon transplanted with a 2001 injected windsor, would have to have cats for example.

Psycho Chicken · 17-07-2005, 11:42 AM

Cats do more than remove the smell. The turn carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide, break oxides of nitrogen down into oxygen and nitrogen and turn unburnt hydrocarbons into into water and carbon dioxide.

The LPG AUs and BAs do have cats. Diesel may be an exception, I'd imagine it's melt the cat just like running rich on ULP or running leaded petrol does.

And yes it's about emissions, technically you don't need one, however you have NO chance of meeting emission requirements without one.

Motorbikes are governed by a different set of laws.

If a car is old enough and you drop a modern engine in you don't have to run cats. I believe it's early 1960's though.

MRJUCY · 17-07-2005, 08:52 PM

I asked the EPA in NSW about this a couple of years ago & they said if you had a pre '86 car & converted it to run on PULP you don't have to run a cat but they of course suggest you do. If how ever you did this by fitting a post 86 engine you would as you have to meet the emissions standards of the later of either the chassis build date or the engine build date. This means also that if someone used say a Clevo block from a XE & fitted to there XA they'd have to pass all the post '76 garbage even tho the blocks were the same.

geckoGT · 17-07-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

I asked the EPA in NSW about this a couple of years ago & they said if you had a pre '86 car & converted it to run on PULP you don't have to run a cat but they of course suggest you do. If how ever you did this by fitting a post 86 engine you would as you have to meet the emissions standards of the later of either the chassis build date or the engine build date. This means also that if someone used say a Clevo block from a XE & fitted to there XA they'd have to pass all the post '76 garbage even tho the blocks were the same.

As I said, post '86 engine in a pre '86 chassis, you have to apply the later emission laws which means cats. No cats if you modify a pre '86 engine.