Buying 2nd Hand Car - Accident Damage

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 03:24 PM

Hi Guys,

I put down a deposit on a secondhand car for the wife last week.
Car looked good at first glance, but being a relatively new car (2013) I needed another opinion, so I arrange a Redbook vehicle inspection via carsales.com.au

Inspection was done this morning and the vehicle inspector called me to tell me the vehicle generally checked out ok, but it had been involved in an accident. Rear right side repaired/resprayed and both right side doors removed.

I'm a bit angry that the seller didn't disclose this to me. My deposit wasn't subject to the vehicle inspection, so if I walk away I'll lose it. When I called the seller back and asked him about it, he said that it only happened 3 months ago. I asked for my deposit back, but he said no, so may get messy.

Two questions;

1. Should I even be concerned about the repair if it was done properly under insurance with a warranty? Seller has told me he will provide all paperwork on the repair with the vehicle.
2. Do I have any recourse to get my deposit back? Its only $500, but with a young family to feed, that' a lot to me.

**PG2** · 09-05-2016, 03:27 PM

Is there another car from the seller that you are interested in?

Maybe you could negotiate transferring the deposit onto another car that you like.

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

Is there another car from the seller that you are interested in?

Maybe you could negotiate transferring the deposit onto another car that you like.

Thanks for reply.
Oops, sorry, forgot to mention it was a private sale. So no, not an option.

Inspector didn't say it was a terrible repair, but it was noticeable.
I'd rather just walk away from the vehicle TBH. But maybe I'm making a big issue about nothing?

Sam_Boss260 · 09-05-2016, 03:38 PM

I think unfortunately if you didn't make it "subject to vehicle inspection" then the onus is on you the buyer, not the seller. Unless he has advertised it "never been in an accident", then you either buy the car or lose your deposit.

I would go and take a closer look yourself to determine how good or bad the repair is. If it is noticeably poor, then try to negotiate. If I was the seller, I'd rather the car sold than just $500.

Tassie f100 · 09-05-2016, 03:55 PM

I would suggest that if the doors were removed to repair rather than being replaced it probably has had a bit of a scrape up the side If the gaps are right and the paint is right I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about.Most good panel beaters repair damage to a better standard than a lot of factory finishes.

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 04:11 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

I do like the car; perfect colour and spec combo I was looking for.
I'm just worried about the unknowns associated with a smash repair.

Squalo · 09-05-2016, 04:25 PM

Can you have the repair assessed by a competent panel shop?

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squalo

Can you have the repair assessed by a competent panel shop?

Yes, that is an option.

I was also going to ask for all the paperwork from the repairer and insurance company with the sale. I am told by the seller that it was taken care of by the insurance company by a reputable shop.

**fordomatic** · 09-05-2016, 05:22 PM

So you didn't ask him if it had been pranged before you put deposit down? Depending on how much deposit i put down i would walk away for sure, but i'm a fussy bugger

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

So you didn't ask him if it had been pranged before you put deposit down?

No, I didn't :(
And that was my bad, I know.

The Yeti · 09-05-2016, 05:43 PM

if it was repaired under insurance, many policies have a life time warranty on the repair, so perhaps if its not quite right you can get it repaired properly

**fordomatic** · 09-05-2016, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

No, I didn't :(
And that was my bad, I know.

Argh that sucks mate. If you would be happy to buy it knowing it's been pranged than go for it. But if you are not then i would walk away or you will always look at it and think if you should have bought it or not

galaxy xr8 · 09-05-2016, 06:13 PM

Just remember if you ever have to sell this car yourself in the future you might have buyers thinking exactly what you are thinking just now, it might cost you more in the long term.

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Just remember if you ever have to sell this car yourself in the future you might have buyers thinking exactly what you are thinking just now, it might cost you more in the long term.

That's what's playing on my mind the most. I think I could probably live with the repair, but its difficult to quantify how much it affects resale later on.

**TUF_302** · 09-05-2016, 06:53 PM

What kind of car is it?

XB GS 351 Coupe · 09-05-2016, 07:16 PM

Pretty sure he should refund your deposit since the car has been in an accident and this has not been disclosed to you, even though he admitted to being well aware of the accident repair after being caught out on it.

I have not looked into the rules relating to this, but the old 'Caveat emptor' or buyer beware is starting to be legislated out of existence and is being replaced with 'Caveat Venditor'

A Latin term meaning “let the seller beware,” the principle of caveat venditor cautions that the seller is responsible for any problem that the buyer might encounter with a service or product, especially if a known problem exists that has not been disclosed to the buyer.

**PG2** · 09-05-2016, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yeti

if it was repaired under insurance, many policies have a life time warranty on the repair, so perhaps if its not quite right you can get it repaired properly

You may want to check on the lifetime warranty.

I think that the warranty only applies to the policy holder and is not transferable.

DoubleTrouble · 09-05-2016, 07:58 PM

The repair work must be up to good standard since you never noticed it on inspection, the valuer you used obviously did not say anything bad about the repair otherwise it would have been written down for you.

In my opinion if the car was repaired satisfactory then you should not have a problem but what you must consider is the value you paying for this car compared to another one that has not been in an accident, question: did you get it good for a good price to warrant for you to go ahead & purchase it or walk away & look for another unmolested car?

Pepscobra · 09-05-2016, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

You may want to check on the lifetime warranty.

I think that the warranty only applies to the policy holder and is not transferable.

Good point.
Can anyone confirm this for sure?
I don't know who the sellers insurance company is, so don't know who to ask.

Tassie f100 · 09-05-2016, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Pretty sure he should refund your deposit since the car has been in an accident and this has not been disclosed to you, even though he admitted to being well aware of the accident repair after being caught out on it.

I have not looked into the rules relating to this, but the old 'Caveat emptor' or buyer beware is starting to be legislated out of existence and is being replaced with 'Caveat Venditor'

A Latin term meaning “let the seller beware,” the principle of caveat venditor cautions that the seller is responsible for any problem that the buyer might encounter with a service or product, especially if a known problem exists that has not been disclosed to the buyer.

So by your reckoning if you have a small bingle you must disclose this to the dealer you trade it to or be prepared to give the dealer his money back if he finds out later that it had in fact had a bit of a scratch up the side

maat1985 · 09-05-2016, 08:25 PM

if it was not noticeable on first inspection probably nothing to worry about....
if it was done through insurance as you say then it should have lifetime warranty...
i have had my car repaired by a smash repairer when it should have been a write off due to cost and unless you get underneath and knew what you were looking for you would never even know... even then you would look... could tell it was repaired but also note the quality of the workmanship that went into it...
if every car that was accident damaged was looked upon as you are looking upon this car as a potential waste then almost all cars would never be resold as well over 50% of cars have been in accidents and repaired...
i know alot of smash repairers and i know that only the dodgiest of all would allow a car out of the workshop if it was not up to standard and if it is insurance work then all will make sure work is quality as if they get found to have done dodgy repairs it will cost them future work being sent to them.
if there is nothing structural bent or out of alignment from a safety point there is nothing to worry about....
if it looks clan and from what you said it does then what are you worried about???
you are buying a second hand car and in a few years it will be worth nothing anywhere near what you paid damaged or not.... also who knows it may only get damaged again... and from what it sounds like you would be likely to not trust any repair done on it then so i think that maybe you need to just take a step back... get the repair assessed if you have any questions but you are almost certainly worrying about nothing....

**PG2** · 09-05-2016, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Good point.
Can anyone confirm this for sure?
I don't know who the sellers insurance company is, so don't know who to ask.

Will the seller tell who the insurance company is? Will they tell you who the repairer is?

danzvtil · 09-05-2016, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Pretty sure he should refund your deposit since the car has been in an accident and this has not been disclosed to you, even though he admitted to being well aware of the accident repair after being caught out on it.

.

You forget that the car was presented to the op to make his own judgement on whether the car was suitable for his needs or not. Its at this time the inspection should have been done, before signing an unconditional contract to buy the car.
Cars are damaged and repaired every day, unless it has been done in some backyarders shed, I don't see the huge issue.

olfella · 09-05-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Pretty sure he should refund your deposit since the car has been in an accident and this has not been disclosed to you, even though he admitted to being well aware of the accident repair after being caught out on it.

I have not looked into the rules relating to this, but the old 'Caveat emptor' or buyer beware is starting to be legislated out of existence and is being replaced with 'Caveat Venditor'

A Latin term meaning “let the seller beware,” the principle of caveat venditor cautions that the seller is responsible for any problem that the buyer might encounter with a service or product, especially if a known problem exists that has not been disclosed to the buyer.

Did you read the bit where he said he did not ask? Being a private sale disclosure becomes a whole new ball game.

olfella · 09-05-2016, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

Will the seller tell who the insurance company is? Will they tell you who the repairer is?

That is the way I would approach your problem. At least then you will be able to make a more informed decision about whether to proceed or cut your losses.

**TUF_302** · 09-05-2016, 09:44 PM

There's no guarantees in buying private

DoubleTrouble · 09-05-2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Pretty sure he should refund your deposit since the car has been in an accident and this has not been disclosed to you, even though he admitted to being well aware of the accident repair after being caught out on it.

I have not looked into the rules relating to this, but the old 'Caveat emptor' or buyer beware is starting to be legislated out of existence and is being replaced with 'Caveat Venditor'

A Latin term meaning “let the seller beware,” the principle of caveat venditor cautions that the seller is responsible for any problem that the buyer might encounter with a service or product, especially if a known problem exists that has not been disclosed to the buyer.

Since when is it law a seller must disclose a vehicle has been in an accident, especially for a second hand vehicle.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-05-2016, 10:36 PM

I've seen brand new cars repaired with out the owner knowing. As long as it's not a repairable write off its all good. I'd be asking who did it and some proof of what was done though.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-05-2016, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble

Since when is it law a seller must disclose a vehicle has been in an accident, especially for a second hand vehicle.

You don't have to disclose with new cars either unless it was hail.

Trump · 09-05-2016, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I've seen brand new cars repaired with out the owner knowing. As long as it's not a repairable write off its all good. I'd be asking who did it and some proof of what was done though.

This. A sizeable percentage of the cars that go through the various pre-delivery mobs (PrixCar, Toll, Patrick Autocare) are repaired prior to delivery to dealers due to damage incurred during transit.