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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Q..10kms west of Rocky...
Posts: 8,307
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Ford plans to have a four-cylinder engine available on every car it sells by 2013. By RICHARD BLACKBURN.
The Ford Falcon and Territory will be sold with four-cylinder engines within four years as part of a wide-ranging plan by the Blue Oval to reduce its environmental footprint. Ford’s global product boss Derek Kuzak has told US-based trade publication Automotive News that the company intends to have a four-cylinder engine available in every car in its line-up by 2013. Kuzak told the publication that even the company’s hulking F-150 pick-up truck and Mustang sports car could be in line for the smaller, more efficient engines. Ford plans to rely heavily on turbocharged, smaller-capacity engines, matched to dual-clutch transmissions, to reduce its fleet’s average fuel consumption in coming years. For trucks and sports cars, that is likely to mean the twin-turbo V6 that was originally planned for the Falcon but scrapped recently in favour of retaining the Geelong-built in-line six-cylinder. But for everything else, it will mean a turbocharged four-cylinder. Ford claims the turbo four can produce the power of a normal V6 with four-cylinder fuel consumption, while the V6 can match V8 performance while delivering V6-rivalling consumption. Ford plans to sell 500,000 four-cylinder turbos and 250,000 twin-turbo sixes a year by 2013. “We’re all about the smaller displacement as a way to drive significant fuel economy without sacrificing performance,” Kuzak told Automotive News. Ford spokeswoman Sinead McAlary says the local operation is looking at a number of alternative engine options for its locally produced vehicles. “There are lots of things we are looking at. These smaller (turbo) engines deliver similar power and performance to six-cylinder engines, so they’re obviously an attractive option, but we’re looking at a number of alternatives,” she says. However, Ford Australia is likely to come under increasing pressure to fall into line with Detroit, as Ford boss Alan Mulally has made it clear he wants to build global products. That makes the future less than rosy for the Falcon and Territory, whose rear-wheel-drive underpinnings and dated straight-six engines have little in common with the rest of the Ford line-up. Mulally has already flagged that the next Falcon could be front-wheel drive, and with Kuzak confirming the four-cylinder engine plans, it seems that the post-2013 Falcon and Territory will be very different beasts to their 2009 predecessors, if they exist at all. McAlary dismisses suggestions the four-cylinder push is another nail in the Falcon’s coffin. “It isn’t past its use-by date yet,” she says.
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,228
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Thats not very good at all, no way i would buy a front wheel drive, 4cyl falcon, they have got to be kidding, dont they????
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12.33@112mph (stock) 11.00@125mph 98 (387rwkw) (CMS) 10.19@139mph (450rwkw) (Nizpro)(SOLD) 10.25@138mph FG XR6T (new toy) (Nizpro) |
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#3 | ||
V8 Powaah
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,994
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Why would anyone buy a 4cylinder Falcon?
If you wanted a 4 cylinder big Ford you would just buy a Mondeo.
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FG G6E Turbo- Seduce & Cashmere - Sold XF S pack Sedan- AU 302 Windsor, T5, 2.77 LSD, Many Mods
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#4 | ||
Weezland
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney,workshop mod
Posts: 7,216
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Its a good idea IMO, and would open up falcon/territory to buyers that wouldnt normally consider one.
Not everyone cares whats under the bonnet, most people just want an economical daily drive. |
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#5 | ||
I used to have a nice car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,993
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4cyl turbo is a good move i think. With all the technology they can put together in a small engine these days a 200kw 4 with a flat torque curve is possible. Merc and BMW have been running small engines in their E's and 5's for a long time. I think it will be a winner, especially with fleet.
Also i would think if ford had to use a global platform and went FWD, they would likely have it on base models and have AWD for the higher models like the Taurus SHO is. |
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#6 | ||
Whipper Snappa
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SA
Posts: 1,192
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Every lower displacemnt engine introduced into locally made Falcadores has been a failure with the buying public. Think of the 4 cyclinder early Commodores or the 3.2 CFI EA.
People wanting a 4 cylinder sized car would buy a Mondeo/Focus.
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*insert witty quote* |
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#7 | ||
I used to have a nice car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,993
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Times change and these new engine won't be gutless wonders either.
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#8 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 108
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Holden tried and failed with the starfire (misfire) in the Dunnydore years ago, Aussie blokes want big sixes and V8's.
Imagine a 4 banga revving its turbo'ed ring out to keep up with an 8. "Whats that on the floor back there? oh just my crank shaft......"
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2008 BF II Fairmont Ghia
2004 BA XT |
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#9 | ||
Parts bin special
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Narre Warren, Vic
Posts: 8,275
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It's not displacement that makes the biggest impact on fuel economy. It's the weight of the car. That's why the Camry uses as much fuel if not more than a 6 cylinder Falcon. The straight 6 is just such a torquey engine, it doesn't really have to work hard to get to speed. This is great for fuel economy. A little 4 banger on the other hand needs to be worked a lot harder to get to speed. This is why the Starfire was such a failure. It had no power, and drained the juice. A 3.2 litre EA was the same.
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Weekender 1964 US Falcon Futura convertible - Rangoon Red 260 Windsor V8, 4 speed manual, LHD, Electronic ignition, Mustang wheels https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11470868 Daily 2014 SZII Territory diesel - basic runabout Previous Cars 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - Tickford engine, 5 speed, SVO wheels, bodykit, much more 2000 AUII Fairmont - XR wheels, Ghia interior 2010 FG XR50T ute - XR8 bonnet, Streetfighter intake |
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#10 | |||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Quote:
The only 4-cyl they should drop in is a massive 3L+ Turbo Diesel 4-cyl with pistons the size of 44-gallon drums. That's the only time a 4cyl will be viable in a falc/tezza.
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#11 | ||
I used to have a nice car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,993
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Having a 4cyl in the front end will no boubt reduce it's kerb weight a bit.
For comparison. A falcon XT currently weighs in @1704kg. Compared to a Merc E200 Compressor at 1580kg featuring a 1.8 litre supercharged 4cyl. Combined cycle on the Merc is 8.6L p/100km compared to the Ford of 10.1@ p/100km. Although the Merc does only have 135kw. While their 3 litre averages 9.7 with 170kw and weighs 1660kg |
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#12 | ||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,328
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turbo diesel 4 or turbo petrol 6 is a good option IMO.
The people that will disagree will be us enthusiasts. Most of the general public dont care about big donks anymore sadly.
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#13 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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How about a low-boost, de-stroked turbo I6? Say de-stroked to 3.2L (hurrr) with a low boost version of the XR6T's setup?
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#14 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: new south wales
Posts: 1,153
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While I personally dont like the idea of a 4 cylinder falcon, I think in general it is probably is a good idea. times change ,as nugget said this would open up to buyers that would not have bought before because of fuel consumption mainly.you can have big fours of 3.0 turbo diesel as mentioned would put out way more power than some of yesteryears v8,s, like the vl 5.0 which put out a measley 125kw. If it means more sales for ford then I'm all for it.
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 808
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There are a few factors why a 4CYL Falc is being contemplated today. We all know that based on previous experience (and current if you include the camry..) that it doesn’t save any fuel and crappy to drive. But when holden (GM) tried it with the commodore, they were not on the brink of collapse as they are now. The Big 2 are in trouble like never before and desperate times call for desperate measures
Reaons for trying it again 1. Green vote (perceived saving of greenhouse gasses etc) 2. Fuel usage (perceived saving of fuel….like hell it is) The Prius uses all this amazing hybrid technology to get down to 5.9 LP100 Kms Take away all the electrics and batteries etc and it would be that much lighter and use less fuel just as a 1500cc petrol engine car.
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BMW 125I Kia Seltos Suzuki SV650 FG XR6 (son) |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: George town, tasmania
Posts: 800
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i think parts of it are a good idea. i like the sound of the ttv6 but couldn't stand the idea of a fwd falcon. would they still have a v8 version available? it would be terrible if they got rid of that.
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#17 | ||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,328
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If they kept a FWD base model, and introduced a AWD performance model, I think this could work. But FWD thru-out the whole line up is collapse waiting to happen.
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#18 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
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#19 | |||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,328
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Quote:
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#20 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 315
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I'm waiting for the XRe
Hydrogen fuel-cell electric Falcon. |
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#21 | |||
BF MKII XR6
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 678
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Quote:
Last edited by alter_EGOXR; 19-02-2009 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Got one more thing to say.. |
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#22 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#23 | ||
Weezland
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney,workshop mod
Posts: 7,216
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A 4cyl falcon should have some decent weight savings, and would have to,to be worthwhile, while the current turbo six is nice, geez it sucks some fuel during city cycle driving.
if you could cut this fuel usage in half with a smaller engine and weight savings, it would go a long way to help make it more appealling to the general non car enthusiast public..This would have to be a positive for future sales. |
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#24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,204
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I don't see any issues with a 4 potter Falcon, i'd suggest this would be the stock engine and optional 6's/blown 6's and maybe V8's will still be around for us car types.
Its probably not right to bring up the Starfire, this was a knee jerk reaction to the energy crisis back then. A 4 pot Falc will have a well thought out, modern world 4 pot motor. The EA 3.2 was just as good as the outgoing 4.1 Falcon IIRC, the reason why it wasn't successful is Holden lifted the bar with the MPEFI 3.8 and Ford essentially had to match. |
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#25 | |||
FORMERLY TX3DUDE
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "THE GONG"
Posts: 2,487
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a 4L 6cyl with 2 cylinders cut off will be 2.67lts in capacity. (4000x0.6666) Ideal i reckon..........
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#26 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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This is only a good thing. That is, if the 4cyl is A turbo deisel
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#27 | |||
V8 Powaah
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,994
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Quote:
Personally id prefer Ford do a destroked 6 cylinder, i think its time to revisit a 2.6l or 2.8l I6 Falcon, after all the original falcons were only 140cu and 170cu, and with todays Direct Injection technology you could actually make them torquey and economical. The 4 just wouldnt work youd need a 2.5l 4 just to move a Falcon, it would be rough, gruff and would save sod all fuel.
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FG G6E Turbo- Seduce & Cashmere - Sold XF S pack Sedan- AU 302 Windsor, T5, 2.77 LSD, Many Mods
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#28 | ||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,328
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what about as turbo diesel? Could a 2.4-2.5L 4cyl be good in boosted diesel platform? Could Ford do something similar to that of a TD Navara/Pathfinder?
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#29 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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I don't buy the rumours of the FWD thing, One of the main points of the falcon is that it's RWD. The option of a 4cly is there to open up the scope of the car.
Some people make comments about "gutless wonders" but the person who wants a 4cyl falcon arn't really looking for a powerful car arn't they? Only Single minded people will see this as a stupid move Given that ford have some good technology now. The TDCi 16v 2.5 L Puma engine from the ranger series would be perfect for the falcon 105 kW and 330 N·m. *Edit The PSA DW 2.2 TDCi has 129 kW 400 N·m, cant argue with that!
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#30 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Just a thought, the XR5 Volvo engine might be an option.
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Daniel |
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