Ford CEO - Falcon will stay! FWD or RWD?

[AWD Chaser]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...1?OpenDocument

FORD Motor Company president and chief executive officer Alan Mulally has confirmed the long-term production future of the Falcon large car in Australia, but has signalled that the next-generation model could be very different to the current one.....
Mr Mulally said Ford had not yet decided whether its next large-car architecture, upon which the Falcon will be based, would be rear-wheel drive....
“Rear-wheel drive has some unique capabilities, but it will be yet to be determined whether we keep our unique rear-wheel drive or whether the bigger sedans will need to (be) all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive.”

[loltastic]

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...1?OpenDocument

FORD Motor Company president and chief executive officer Alan Mulally has confirmed the long-term production future of the Falcon large car in Australia, but has signalled that the next-generation model could be very different to the current one.....
Mr Mulally said Ford had not yet decided whether its next large-car architecture, upon which the Falcon will be based, would be rear-wheel drive....
“Rear-wheel drive has some unique capabilities, but it will be yet to be determined whether we keep our unique rear-wheel drive or whether the bigger sedans will need to (be) all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive.”

Like burnouts?

[Kryton]

RWD or AWD but NOT FWD.
If Ford ever needed to listen to the buyers - the time is now.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by davway

RWD or AWD but NOT FWD.
If Ford ever needed to listen to the buyers - the time is now.

Exactly, doesn't it sh#$ you when Ford makes decisions that clearly the repeat customers don't want, you could ask every person that buys a Falcon and the majority would prefer RWD surely.

[RG]

If they move away from RWD I'd be happy for them to go AWD.

Mmmmm AWD V8.....

[new2ford]

Ultimately Ford Australia will be dictated to by Americans who don't know and don't care what a good car design is. The Detroit chief interviewed in this month's Wheels said it all really. Unfortunately.

[Mark351]

The new CEO needs to fight for RWD. Surely the yank CEOs we've had recently, even if they've bailed from Ford completely, would agree that large + RWD = match, large + FWD = fail.

[loltastic]

What's wrong with FWD tho? Hear me out... Have the XT pov pack FWD for the fleets and mum n dad buyers, then have AWD for the performance models like the XR6T, F6 etc. Would make sense because the FWD pov packs would save money being FWD meaning more money could be spent on the AWD platform and performance models.

As long as it's not that Haldex system like Audi use on the S3 and I think Volvo uses too... *shudder*

[DoreSlamR]

So where is this new 'falcon' going to be shipped in from? Europe? America?

Thats where I fear we're heading..no more Aussie made falcon

[Big Mike]

"unique" RWD = no one else has it, wants it, buys it, sure some of us are used to it and love it, but WHY aren't Falcons selling? Despite what you fans want and pine for, keep in mind the reasons this style of vehicle is failing in the marketplace; and take a look at the cars that outsell it.

Simple argument really - why shouldn't a company build cars with less cost, less vibration, more safety, better economy, better control and driveability, easier maintenance and less moving parts? Tell me why Ford should stay in the dark ages in the face of technology and refinement in everything around? 20 Years ago a Falcon owner wouldn't buy a Camry, but that world has turned and the companies that fail to evolve are being left behind.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

"unique" RWD = no one else has it, wants it, buys it, sure some of us are used to it and love it, but WHY aren't Falcons selling? Despite what you fans want and pine for, keep in mind the reasons this style of vehicle is failing in the marketplace; and take a look at the cars that outsell it.

Simple argument really - why shouldn't a company build cars with less cost, less vibration, more safety, better economy, better control and driveability, easier maintenance and less moving parts? Tell me why Ford should stay in the dark ages in the face of technology and refinement in everything around? 20 Years ago a Falcon owner wouldn't buy a Camry, but that world has turned and the companies that fail to evolve are being left behind.

The Falcon outsells the Aurion by more than 2 to 1 and the 380 is kaput. The RWD Commodore sells more than the Falcon. The Falcon and Commodore own 80%+ of that segment, Aurion and 380 the rest. That tells you the FWD 6 cyl large sedan sells even worse than a RWD one. The small/medium cars like Corolla and Mazda 3 to name two are now bigger to the point where they are a viable (small) family car and also have adequate performance to satisfy many buyers. The big cars exceed that objective for most and people feel they can get away with a lesser car. A medium car with 130kw, FWD and under 1500kg can work, but a 1700kg+ car with FWD and 200kw or more is pushing it. RWD is more preferable when looking at 2WD in that example.

The Focus being locally built is a good move to utilise production capacity, but there will be a market for the Falcon for a few more years yet. If they switch Falcon to FWD, they might as well not bother as loyal Falcon customers will start to look elsewhere as it will blend in with the other FWD cars. FWD is not better, it is cheaper to make. The front tyre wear of a typical FWD car makes it pretty clear that running drive and steering through one pair of wheels is not the best way to power a car. I'd prefer to pay a couple more thousand for a better car with RWD than less for a FWD Falcon.

The market may be moving towards smaller cars, which may result in sales moving to other Ford cars like Focus and Mondeo. But a Falcon is a big 6 & 8 cyl powered RWD sedan. The formula can change a little, but if that changes too much, then it won't be a Falcon.

If the Falcon is in the dark ages for staying with RWD, then so must Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin and just about every other performance car maker with 2WD models that build cars to perform and not to a price. I can't recall any decent FWD performance cars in the 6 figure plus price bracket.

[SM1DY]

I'm just a little concerned with what will happen to the Falcon utilities if Ford Aus decides to go FWD....

[Yellow_Festiva]

I have been thinking..... If the next Falcon is to be built from scratch to accommodate the new v6, as stupid as it may sound, why can't they put the engine in the boot?

So you will have a FWD drive train that saves weight / costs etc, yet still have RWD.

I would also imagine that repair costs would be lower for front enders, the engine noise would be less intrusive for people in the front seats as well as the rear seats, more interior space etc etc.

Edit.. just saw the above post re the utes.. hmm that poses a problem with my bright idea lol... Perhaps keep the older front engined model for the ute, and sell for a good discount due to the minimal R&D that needs to go into an already proven design??

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

If the Falcon is in the dark ages for staying with RWD, then so must Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin and just about every other performance car maker with 2WD models that build cars to perform and not to a price. I can't recall any decent FWD performance cars in the 6 figure plus price bracket.

The Falcon in most guises IS NOT a performance thoroughbred. It is a family chariot / taxi. Primary role: To get 4-5 large people around in decent comfort with decent luggage space.... and at a decent price.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I'm just a little concerned with what will happen to the Falcon utilities if Ford Aus decides to go FWD....

I'm glad someone brought that up. This is where the RWD arguement is strongest. The new platform should be RWD + AWD to cover Falcon passenger/ Ute and Territory. That should provide a reasonable amount of volume when developments costs don't rest solely on Ford Oz.

[Windsor220]

I doubt they'll go FWD. Would be the end of FPV and the utes which are a good seller.

[Scott]

I thought there was a global shift back to RWD?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I thought there was a global shift back to RWD?

So did I! I thought that Chrysler proved that with their 300C range. The yanks love the 300C, and they are becoming very popular with the plods also. Look at their other choices - FWD Caprice, archaic Crown Victoria, or a 300C with very decent engines with Mercedes driveline. I'm sure if Chev/Pontiac used the VE commodre as a cop car they'd be very popular. If Ford US had their blinkers on, they could do the same thing with our FG. If they wanted a LWB to replace their aging Crown Vic, it could become our next Fairlane. Maybe I have no idea as I'm not the CEO of Ford, but doesn't it just seem so sensible for Ford US to piggyback off the engineering success that is the FG Falcon, and convert it into sales across the States without having to develop anything?

[Dezza]

RWD is also better for towing, something that the Falcon has quite a heritage of. It would be shame for them to first lose the torquey i6 then to go FWD

[Nikked]

the falcon will stay RWD, thats the only logical option.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I have been thinking..... why can't they put the engine in the boot?

Think 911 and the on-off oversteer. Rear engine is not suitable for the average driver.

[ZA-289]

Originally Posted by Dezza!

RWD is also better for towing, something that the Falcon has quite a heritage of. It would be shame for them to first lose the torquey i6 then to go FWD

Ever pulled a boat out of the water with a Falcon? Wheel spin anyone? A V6 camry would kill the falcon in this case.

But If the falcon was not to stay RWD (my first choice) i think FWD for fleet buyers would be good, then a AWD option for FPV etc. AWD Typhoon/G6E? yes please. Now there''s a car that could compete on the world stage.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by ZA-289

Ever pulled a boat out of the water with a Falcon? Wheel spin anyone? A V6 camry would kill the falcon in this case.

But If the falcon was not to stay RWD (my first choice) i think FWD for fleet buyers would be good, then a AWD option for FPV etc. AWD Typhoon/G6E? yes please. Now there''s a car that could compete on the world stage.

I mean in terms of driving on the road. Really 4WD is the best option for boats, and I'd know. I've done a fair bit of boating.

The fact is, I would hate if Falcon went FWD.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by loltastic

As long as it's not that Haldex system like Audi use on the S3 and I think Volvo uses too... *shudder*

Have you driven one? What did you find wrong with it?

[loltastic]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Have you driven one? What did you find wrong with it?

Just watched a review by Mr Shrick from DMOTOR where he compared an Audi S3 and Subaru WRX STi. Basically said the AWD system in the Audi left a lot to be desired and was boring to drive - it uses a Haldex clutch type system where it's FWD, then engages AWD when the car detects wheel slip. I'm not a fan of pseudo AWD systems - they're try hard and not the real thing.

[FPV8U]

Falcon Goes FWD.. they can forget Local Performance car sales, i'll be into a HSV quick smart.. if Australia liked FWD Performance the TRD Aurions would be selling well.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

"unique" RWD = no one else has it, wants it, buys it, sure some of us are used to it and love it, but WHY aren't Falcons selling? Despite what you fans want and pine for, keep in mind the reasons this style of vehicle is failing in the marketplace; and take a look at the cars that outsell it.

Simple argument really - why shouldn't a company build cars with less cost, less vibration, more safety, better economy, better control and driveability, easier maintenance and less moving parts? Tell me why Ford should stay in the dark ages in the face of technology and refinement in everything around? 20 Years ago a Falcon owner wouldn't buy a Camry, but that world has turned and the companies that fail to evolve are being left behind.

Bmw and Mercedes seem to like it.

[FalconXV]

AWD would only be worthwhile if it was a performance oriented system like Evo, Nissan GT-R, Evo Lancer, Quattro etc Doubt it would be. Aren't the Crown Victoria and Mustang due for replacement in 2012?
If Mullaly is talking FWD, maybe they have been cancelled? If FWD is in the picture, the Falcon name will be tarnished and Holden's empire will grow.
On the plus side, the dimensions could be tightened with FWD and weight would drop significantly. and Ford is capable of tuning world beating draggers.
However, I do like the idea of a $25k 2.5 V6 Falcon manual. If it looks good (i.e. not a front-heavy POS) and drives well then I'd still get a Falcon.

[Serial_Fool]

FWD isn't the best, just look at the Falcon vs Camry/Aurion reviews and the statistics or even better, compare the Taurus to a Falcon of the equivilant era. The Falcon blows the shizzlenit out of them all.

My view is that the Falcon should of been exporting since the EB2 as a replacement for the Crown Vic but alas it wasn't to be.

Ford America isn't going to change its GLOBAL large sedan platform because of what 20 Million Australians want.


Let Ford Europe take over FORD HQ and watch the dollars rake in.

[220XR8]

Has anyone here ever driven a 380 VRX down a windy road?? How you can say the don't handle is beyond me. I have driven a lot of cars over the last 30 plus years and compared to a lot of Fords and Holdens the 380 would wipe the floor with most of them. Too many people living in the dark ages here, and a lot going to have no marque to support when Ford finally goes FWD.