Current review of TAFE system.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

As for the RPL's yeah I want it for free, why should I pay to do a course I've already done again? Then waste my time sitting for it? I've furthered that with other recognized qualifications and its certainly not a 'mate' giving me references.

so, are you happy to work for free? Would you do hours and hours of work to not be paid for it? Yet you expect TAFE to work the same - As i said previously with RPL YOU are the one claiming you can meet the requirements of the training package, then it is up to YOU to prove it. We have to spend hours mapping what you claim meets the requirements of the current training package to what the requirements (training package) actually say. If we believed everything every person was claiming about their life's learning without PROOF then we would be issuing qualifications fraudulently - is that OK?

However you quote "RPL' but what I read is 'credit transfer'. Credit transfers are a very different thing to RPL. ALL training providers across Australia are obliged to accept the Nationally accredited qualifications issued by other registered training organisations (RTO's) - it is a legal requirement

As for the fees, back in the day your fees were fully subsidised by Government (read tax payer), well guess what they aren't any more. You were happy for the Government (read tax payer) to fully fund your learning????? but not happy to contribute any of your own money now? Sounds hypocritical to me - pay more tax then, then your enrolment fees will go down - see the lunacy?

Government has cut the **** out funding that TAFE's get for training delivery, so much that they had to start charging an enrolment fee to cover costs. The off-shoot of that is there isn't as much money around to buy / upgrade training equipment

I don't know why you are all shocked by this - it would be the same in your business (or life) if you had your income cut by up to 80%, (in some cases, actually 90%)

Go to training.gov.au and do a search of your qualification, then look at the Units of Competence that make up the qual, then take the time to look at just one Unit of Competency and take particular note of the 'Performance Criteria', the 'knowledge evidence', the performance evidence, etc. You have to meet all that for us to deem you 'competent' and it means you proving it more than once, as it says a 'range of conditions'


Here is one I just picked at random - MEM31319 - Certificate III in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning, you much achieve '96 points' to be awarded that qual - you do the search to see what that means

One of the Units of Competency from that qual is MEM05012 - Perform routine manual metal arc welding - https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/MEM05012. Go your hardest and look at the above listed stuff and see how you go meeting the requirements if you are qualified in that field

You all know so much - go your hardest

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

so, are you happy to work for free? Would you do hours and hours of work to not be paid for it? Yet you expect TAFE to work the same - As i said previously with RPL YOU are the one claiming you can meet the requirements of the training package, then it is up to YOU to prove it. We have to spend hours mapping what you claim meets the requirements of the current training package to what the requirements (training package) actually say. If we believed everything every person was claiming about their life's learning without PROOF then we would be issuing qualifications fraudulently - is that OK?

However you quote "RPL' but what I read is 'credit transfer'. Credit transfers are a very different thing to RPL. ALL training providers across Australia are obliged to accept the Nationally accredited qualifications issued by other registered training organisations (RTO's) - it is a legal requirement

As for the fees, back in the day your fees were fully subsidised by Government (read tax payer), well guess what they aren't any more. You were happy for the Government (read tax payer) to fully fund your learning????? but not happy to contribute any of your own money now? Sounds hypocritical to me - pay more tax then, then your enrolment fees will go down - see the lunacy?

Government has cut the **** out funding that TAFE's get for training delivery, so much that they had to start charging an enrolment fee to cover costs. The off-shoot of that is there isn't as much money around to buy / upgrade training equipment

I don't know why you are all shocked by this - it would be the same in your business (or life) if you had your income cut by up to 80%, (in some cases, actually 90%)

Go to training.gov.au and do a search of your qualification, then look at the Units of Competence that make up the qual, then take the time to look at just one Unit of Competency and take particular note of the 'Performance Criteria', the 'knowledge evidence', the performance evidence, etc. You have to meet all that for us to deem you 'competent' and it means you proving it more than once, as it says a 'range of conditions'


Here is one I just picked at random - MEM31319 - Certificate III in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning, you much achieve '96 points' to be awarded that qual - you do the search to see what that means

One of the Units of Competency from that qual is MEM05012 - Perform routine manual metal arc welding - https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/MEM05012. Go your hardest and look at the above listed stuff and see how you go meeting the requirements if you are qualified in that field

You all know so much - go your hardest

Yes I've worked for free over the years, that'd be called passion and striving towards a goal.

In regards to the RPL mine was for a course related to a certificate I already had, Horticulture trade and I was applying for Landscape construction 3. I supplied everything that was requested of me, the lecturer just couldn't be bothered checking the references and course numbers on my USI which incidentally was the same number as the unit he was trying to 'sell' me. I was told directly it was too much work. My immediate thought was "When did you loose your passion and drive?" So I did exactly the same unit, incidentally with Horticulture students (to fill the night course numbers) for a second time to get exactly the same number unit number as I already had.

As for fees "back in the day YOUR fees were fully subsidised by the government" I've always paid cash up front for all of my courses, no payment plans or hand outs, how is that being a hypocrite? You seem to be making alot of assumptions of my circumstances.

I know where you're coming from, its not easy to hear critisisms of you're industry, we're much the same but we don't get offended, we take things on board and move forward and strive for a better future.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

As for fees "back in the day YOUR fees were fully subsidised by the government" I've always paid cash up front for all of my courses, no payment plans or hand outs, how is that being a hypocrite? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions of my circumstances

I was talking over 10 years ago, that may not have applied to you in the West but certainly was the case here - the TAFE's back then were lazy, no doubt - but things have changed considerably

If people do not finish the Unit of Competency they are enrolled in we don't get paid, if we get one date wrong on our system we don't get paid - the only guarantee money is when you enrol, we get a little bit

So effectively we could deliver our hearts out, then you decide to not hand in ONE final piece of assessment, so you don't complete, then we have done all the work and not get paid for it (here)

[John 13]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I was talking over 10 years ago, that may not have applied to you in the West but certainly was the case here - the TAFE's back then were lazy, no doubt - but things have changed considerably

If people do not finish the Unit of Competency they are enrolled in we don't get paid, if we get one date wrong on our system we don't get paid - the only guarantee money is when you enrol, we get a little bit

So effectively we could deliver our hearts out, then you decide to not hand in ONE final piece of assessment, so you don't complete, then we have done all the work and not get paid for it (here)

The funding arrangement you describe applied to Private providers in WA but TAFE's were/are funded annually based on projected enrolments.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by John 13

The funding arrangement you describe applied to Private providers in WA but TAFE's were/are funded annually based on projected enrolments.

that is the way it was here to until a Government policy change (see earlier posts), we haven't operated like that for maybe 10 years

We get a little bit of funding when they start a Unit of Competence and we get the rest when they complete. We do get a little if they withdraw from the training after starting but not completing, it is based on a fictional Student Contact Hour's (SCH), these SCH's are set up by back room people (NOT TAFE's or private RTO's - we have control over the number they give them). If the student starts but doesn't complete we can claim a percentage of the funding, but not all as they didn't finish