Focus vs Golf

richo77 · 16-09-2014, 04:35 PM

Hi all,

My partner is swaying between a new Focus S hatch and a Golf Highline model so help is needed for the decision.

Ive read a bit about issues with the DSG transmissions in both vehicles. Are these problems still around with new 2014 stock? Why on earth does the Focus only come with a 5 speed manual and not 6?

Are there any other concerns to be worried about? We dont have time to be back and forth to Ford service with issues.

Any advice is welcomed.

DZFord · 16-09-2014, 06:15 PM

Yes you're exactly right - problems with the auto boxes on both cars. Lots of posts on the forum here, and in the VWWatercooled forums.

A friend has an LW Focus Petrol Sport, 5spd manual and she thinks the car is brilliant and literally hasn't missed a beat, never had a problem with it.

marg99 · 16-09-2014, 06:17 PM

They use the 6 speed manual in the diesel cars because they have more torque down low .

**DFB FGXR6** · 16-09-2014, 07:21 PM

In general, they are both very good cars and are considered at the top of the class along with the Mazda 3. You would be happy with either. All cars can have problems.

Thing that separates them will be ownership/service costs. Ford have a longer capped service program that is cheaper and will have cheaper spare parts. VW have only just introduced capped services but they are still at the higher end of the market and it only lasts the length of the warranty period. This and the more characterful styling would sway me to the Ford.

Golfer · 16-09-2014, 08:05 PM

Get a Focus diesel. No problems with the DSG in the diesel and it is brilliant.

Yellow_Festiva · 17-09-2014, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfer

Get a Focus diesel. No problems with the DSG in the diesel and it is brilliant.

Sorry, must disagree with you. Mine went through 2 service departments and had several thousand dollars of 'repairs' and could NOT be fixed.

I would steer well clear of the Powershift.

You are very lucky that you seemed to have had a good run with yours so far... I wish I could have said the same about mine.

Mulga · 17-09-2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfer

Get a Focus diesel. No problems with the DSG in the diesel and it is brilliant.

If the OP is considering a diesel, although there was nothing mentioned in their post, be sure that you are doing enough k's each day to avoid an issues with the particulate filter (DPF). Some of your fuel savings will be lost if you have to return the car to Ford for a forced regeneration of the DPF. You also need to compare service costs between diesel and petrol.

Yellow_Festiva · 17-09-2014, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulga

If the OP is considering a diesel, although there was nothing mentioned in their post, be sure that you are doing enough k's each day to avoid an issues with the particulate filter (DPF). Some of your fuel savings will be lost if you have to return the car to Ford for a forced regeneration of the DPF. You also need to compare service costs between diesel and petrol.

I thought the jury was still out on if the Focus has a DPF or not???

richo77 · 17-09-2014, 09:08 AM

Petrol engine is the preferred choice.

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I thought the jury was still out on if the Focus has a DPF or not???

LV doesn't I'm not sure about LW, if it does it will have a DPF indicator on the dash when you go to ignition.

marg99 · 17-09-2014, 02:33 PM

gotta watch the cars that need minimum of 95 octane which many times mean they only run well on the even more expensive 98 octane.The turbo petrol Golfs need that higher level of octane in their petrol

**Polyal** · 17-09-2014, 02:59 PM

5 or 6 manual gears means very little, get a TDi and the torque makes it easy work.

I really like the Golf and they are a fun drive in manual TDi form...rolling it would kill most older I6 Falcons.

I dont know why you would get a petrol engine for a daily these days if you didnt have too.

Imolator · 17-09-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I thought the jury was still out on if the Focus has a DPF or not???

Unfortunately they do have DPF's fitted.

marg99 · 17-09-2014, 05:21 PM

There is no doubt the diesels do best at highway speeds with great economy offset a bit by higher servicing costs. The torque is great even around town but they are slower off the mark than a petrol and can be a use a bit more on fuel around town in stop start. so typically you get say 7 ish Liters 100 klm around town and 6 or below with highway stuff thrown in. My LT diesel get an average 6 liters per 100 klm with a mixture of driving but little real traffic jam stuff

Batmobile · 17-09-2014, 07:14 PM

Recently I assisted a friend with their purchase of a new Focus Sport - she is over the moon with its performance - however , having had access to a friends GTi and GTD , we both agreed and felt the Golf felt stronger and we both felt happier with the total Golf experience. Focus was had such a good deal she decided on the Focus purely on price. My choice GTD

RedChris · 18-09-2014, 11:01 AM

No doubt the VW has higher perceived quality, especially the interior, and as a newer design is a better overall package. However, I still would not trust any model with the DQ200 7 speed DSG. It is better than it was, but some owners still have issues. Likewise the Ford dry clutch DCT, which means for either of these basically only diesel variants in 'auto' or certain models like the GTI in the VW that have a wet clutch DSG/DCT. Or get a manual to avoid the problems, as I did.

The other issue is servicing. Lots of people bag Ford servicing but my current Ford dealer runs rings around the dealers I suffered with my last car (VW group product). Expensive, mistake prone, largely unhelpful. It was servicing plus constant minor issues that saw me sell my previous car years before I planned to and swear off VW group products until the company changes its ways.

**Mechan1k** · 18-09-2014, 11:21 PM

Be wary with the VW TDi engine ... it seems common for the turbos to blow .... and if you have a DSG .... say goodbye to the engine as it consume all its oil as the turbo keeps being fed by it ... gotta love a runaway diesel.

2 workmates had this same issue .... luckily one of them had the 6-speed manual ... but he had many issues with injectors and turbos ... and manual transmission bolts sheering as well (a pain to get to as well).

If you get a runaway diesel issue in a manual .... bring it to a stop .... put it into 6th gear and side step the clutch the stall it .... taking the key doesn't turn it off.

From all accounts the VW group and product in general has been surveyed at a much poorer quality than they used to have.

Sioso · 19-09-2014, 07:09 AM

We purchased 3 Golf's through our business, the manual GTI that I had was problem free but the two other 1.4 TSI 7 speed DSG cars were having problems right from the start.
We had to get our solicitor involved and get a whole car replaced after it was off the road for 5 months, the new replacement cars' gearbox went at 30,000k's along with continual issues from day one (mainly electrical).
Wouldn't touch one again.
As Redchris said the wet clutch 6 speed DSG's don't seem to have the same issues as the 7 speed.

marg99 · 19-09-2014, 08:52 AM

it is said the oil used in the 7 speed boxes was incompatible with the electronics and cause electrical malfunctions hence they changed the oil. That is it seems a different issue to the ford seals problem

richo77 · 19-09-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Sorry, must disagree with you. Mine went through 2 service departments and had several thousand dollars of 'repairs' and could NOT be fixed.

I would steer well clear of the Powershift.

You are very lucky that you seemed to have had a good run with yours so far... I wish I could have said the same about mine.

This is alarming. What year is yours? Do you know if the issues have been fixed with new stock?

RedChris · 19-09-2014, 09:34 AM

You're right about the oil issue marg99: in warmer climates it corroded the mechatronic unit. VW has had to replace plenty of mechatronic units (including a recall for this in addition to the oil change). I believe VW stated in the owner's manuals not to use cars with these gearboxes in stop start traffic in warm climates, don't know if they still do...

The DQ200 DSG has also required upgraded clutch components to address shuddering. The Golf 7 has the upgraded components and is better than the 6, but if you check the VW forums the gearbox is still not 100% for all owners.

What gets me is VW went through years of drama with the 6 speed wet clutch DSG before getting it more or less right; you'd have thought they wouldn't do it again but they did.

Mechan1k is also right that blown turbos are not unknown but the VW forums don't seem to list it as very common. Mind you, VW want about $4k to replace one out of warranty unless you can get a goodwill repair. The diesel injector issues are well documented but fixed for the current generation.

Yellow_Festiva · 19-09-2014, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richo77

This is alarming. What year is yours? Do you know if the issues have been fixed with new stock?

Jan 2010.

I don't know about newer stock to be honest. I sold my Focus for whatever I could get - well before we wanted to sell it.

As far as I was concerned myself and my wife were driving a ticking bomb... not in terms of the car blowing up of course, but in terms of the reliability of the powershift.

I'm hearing stories of a redesigned seal, clutch, and extended warranties offered on the powershift tranny alone.

I have no clue. But what I can confirm is that my car had near $10,000 in 'repairs' and it was always presented back to me as it was given. And every time I was trying to get work done under warranty I was fed the usual BS.

My personal opinion of the Focus - especially the diesel is that it is a wonderful car. Roomy, comfortable, safe, super efficient on the freeways (read my many contributions in the fuel consumption thread) and pulled like a steam train.

We really didn't want to sell it but I was not going to have to pay $?,??? dollars for a new clutch pack or $??,??? for a new powershift.

Yellow_Festiva · 19-09-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

In general, they are both very good cars and are considered at the top of the class along with the Mazda 3. You would be happy with either. All cars can have problems.

Thing that separates them will be ownership/service costs. Ford have a longer capped service program that is cheaper and will have cheaper spare parts. VW have only just introduced capped services but they are still at the higher end of the market and it only lasts the length of the warranty period. This and the more characterful styling would sway me to the Ford.

The capped price servicing for the diesel Focus is quite expensive - especially for the minor services. Circa $300 if I recall and the book states that it takes only around an hr to complete.

Of that, around $90 (I assume) goes towards the 'Free' roadside assistance.

If you are happy to shop around, established service centers will do a minor service on the diesel for around $180-200. No roadside assistance of course, but many don't use it.

mik · 19-09-2014, 07:01 PM

If it was me looking for something along the lines of golf or or focus...... i would avoid the wizz bang trendy gear boxes and go with older proven style transmissions that rarely if ever give trouble........ the wizz bang stuff might be good fun ...... but when it hits the fan....... prepare to open your wallet wide, i would even follow that thought process for engines, while some hi tech engines may be very frugal......... In the long run with servicing a simpler unit might still work out cheaper and more reliable.

Yellow_Festiva · 19-09-2014, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

If it was me looking for something along the lines of golf or or focus...... i would avoid the wizz bang trendy gear boxes and go with older proven style transmissions that rarely if ever give trouble........ the wizz bang stuff might be good fun ...... but when it hits the fan....... prepare to open your wallet wide, i would even follow that thought process for engines, while some hi tech engines may be very frugal......... In the long run with servicing a simpler unit might still work out cheaper and more reliable.

When we were buying, it was a toss up between the i30 and the focus. Each had pro's and cons that made them line ball.

I chose the focus due to the powershift. That's it. I was thinking how I was buying a more quality unit and how the 4sp in the i30 was so old tech.

You never assume that an auto box will need so much work so early into its life. Had we got the i30 we probably still would have had it today.

Ironic that the reason we got the focus would be it's downfall.

kevino · 20-09-2014, 10:05 AM

Work wise I drive VW transporter vans with diesel and 6 or 7 speed DSG gearboxes.
They get confused on a hill start and roll back quite alarming.
I drive a 2008 6 speed manual diesel focus 180000kms no issues also drive VW Crafter vans at work at 240000km 6 speed manual -again no issues.
Wife has a Fiesta with a 6 speed DCT. Would not buy any vehicle with a DSG or DCT tranny simply do not trust them.

One clutch was replaced on the fiesta auto at 17000.

DRU842 · 20-09-2014, 10:14 AM

I know of at least two Hyundai i30s and 4WD autos, that have stranded their owners and required replacement; so no car is going to be 100% perfect for all concerned.
Still not 100% convinced of 'smarts' the Powershift but the concept, economy, and bottom line deal lead me to choose over the Golf equivalent.