Worth a read

[sprint347dave]

WORTH A READ
How and Why you should fight ALL fines by an ex-Police Sergeant.

My name is Stan. I am a retired Sergeant of Police in Victoria for 14 years. I was also a police prosecutor at times, so I know what I am talking about. I spent half my life in Magistrates Court during my time in the Force. I was only ever a very fair copper, and I am proud of my time in the job, looking after the interests of Victorians, often to the detriment of my family and my health.

I never booked any driver for a trifling offence “ever”. People committing trifling offences commonly used to get a warning and a licence / vehicle check. It had to be serious before I booked anyone.

I am so annoyed at what is happening these days, in what I call “Indiscriminate revenue gathering” It is absolutely disgusting. The government and the Police Force need to hang their heads in shame. If you did a survey of current serving members of the police forces in this country, you would be hard pushed to find many who disagree with me.

I know how the legal system works, and I know how to beat the system. This is how to do it, and if about 10% of all drivers booked follow my specific instructions, then the entire system will crash and become unworkable to the extent, that the government will have no choice but to stop issuing fines for every type of traffic offence. The whole lot of them. Seriously.

I do not feel guilty about coming out with this information, as I think it’s about time someone stood up for hard working, civil minded, law abiding taxpayers in this country, who are being screwed.

This is very simple and very basic. The idea is to clog up the system in the traffic camera office and the courts by drivers exercising their rights to remain innocent until proven guilty.

SIMPLE BASIC LEGAL STEPS TO FOLLOW…………….

1. Do not accept the alleged offence. There are numerous valid reasons to dispute every single alleged offence. Often the charges are incorrect or the evidence is illegally or incorrectly gathered.

2. Challenge it, tell them that you are going to defend the matter. Make them earn their miserable $150 or $200 or whatever. They have to prepare evidence and witnesses. Just the wages for the camera operator or the Policeman on the day of the court, will be more than the actual fine. You are also taking a camera operator or a member of the Police Force off the street for the day. But it won’t get to that point…..read on….

3. If a court date is ever set, and it does not suit you, do not accept it, ask for a delay to a time and place that suits you.

4. When they re set the date, delay it as often as possible. keep pleading not guilty all through the process. You have every right to be sick, or go for an adjournment if the day does not suit for any legitimate reason. For example you may have pressing family or work commitments which prevent you from attending a particular court on a particular day.

5. If it ever actually gets to court, (which is unlikely if everyone does this) and if you are unwell that day, ring the court in the morning and tell them that you cannot make it as you are sick. The camera operator, and a police prosecutor will already be at court, and will be greatly inconvenienced, by having to come back another day. The whole time this is going on, the amount of paperwork involved at the traffic camera office is huge. Several staff are involved, and it rapidly becomes very costly, probably running into thousands. …..with me so far…..keep reading…….

6. The court system is then placed under such a massive load by people who wanted “their day in court” that it simply will not be able to cope unless they open up about another 50 magistrates courts, and this is obviously going to cost the government a lot more than any revenue raised. If all the above fails, which is highly unlikely….and you actually go to court and get convicted……you have a right of appeal. Make sure you appeal the conviction. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see what happens. They are not going to spend millions chasing hundreds.

7 Tell everyone you know to challenge their alleged offences, and the entire system will crash within a few weeks.

8. Please pass this on. AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY AND THAT THERE IS A VERY HIGH PROBABILITY THAT THE EVIDENCE USED AGAINST YOU IS WRONG. YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO CHALLENGE ANY ALLEGED OFFENCE. THIS IS WHY COURTS EXIST….SO USE THEM……A LOT.

Regards,

Stan

[yakcam]

Stan must have gotten a fine recently...lol.

[EVLKNEVL]

That's a novel approach.

I'd like to know though, if/when you are ultimately found guilty of these offences, can all the associated court costs, admin costs etc etc be added to your initial fine, making the whole process extremely costly and a waste of everybody's time?

I'm not having a go, I just wonder what the true consequences are if one was to go down this path. The idea has been around for a long time, yet it has never caught on, and personally I don't know anyone who has fought traffic infringements with any success.

[Sam1112]

I also thought that should such happen and you get to court they would try and charge you the costs for all the inconvenience you caused them.

[BHDOGS]

where was this posted and is stan a real person?

[davenl5l]

innocent until proven guilty ? ha tell that to a biker !!!!!

[karj]

A quick google shows that's it's actually paid content from Aussie Speeding Fines and they claim that it took 'a LOT of work to get that ex-police officer to write such a detailed email.'

I call bullshit... 'Stan' doesn't exist and I can't believe anyone would actually pay for such material.

I thought that Aussie Speeding Fines had already been revealed as a scam?

[bobthebilda]

I dont know of a court system in australia that is yet to throw up its arms and let the system crash. You screw the courts around too much, they add court costs. If the courts workload increases, the government is likely to add resources and to pay for these resources they increase taxes and/ or traffic fines.

[MercuryT]

Lot of bad advice in the ^^, but some of it has merit - especially stalling tactics.

Each state is different with regard to it's legislation, and the above is a good way for the (alleged) offender to end up with a far worse result than the initial fine.

Personally, I wouldn't take any notice of it.

But good luck to those who do, revenue raising really annoys me in how police go about it. If not prepared to accept fault then it may prove a good option, but be prepared for the consequences if "Stan's plan" doesn't work.

[pottery beige]

**** em around enough, sometimes stuff drops off the system

[MercuryT]

^^ not usually.

In fact it makes things worse in most cases. But again, good luck to those who challenge, especially with regard to speeding (not drink driving etc)

Most states legislation is set up to suit itself (regardless of stalling), not the offender.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by karj

A quick google shows that's it's actually paid content from Aussie Speeding Fines and they claim that it took 'a LOT of work to get that ex-police officer to write such a detailed email.'

I call bullshit... 'Stan' doesn't exist and I can't believe anyone would actually pay for such material.

I thought that Aussie Speeding Fines had already been revealed as a scam?

Yep sounds like a load of crap. Though it never ceases to amaze me the lengths some people will go to waste time, effort and money to get out of something.

By all means if you have legitimate cause to fight it in court then do so, but don't do it just for the sake of it in the hope they will just forget or throw it in the too hard basket.

[mik]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

That's a novel approach.

I'd like to know though, if/when you are ultimately found guilty of these offences, can all the associated court costs, admin costs etc etc be added to your initial fine, making the whole process extremely costly and a waste of everybody's time?

I'm not having a go, I just wonder what the true consequences are if one was to go down this path. The idea has been around for a long time, yet it has never caught on, and personally I don't know anyone who has fought traffic infringements with any success.

People do fight and win, there have been articles over the years reporting this,
but I think most people wouldn't though for fear of wearing court costs, and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of undeserved fines are paid for the same reason.

[The Monty]

Stan is from the internetz. It MUST be true.

If a court date is set, its not up to you to accept it. If you fail to appear, a warrant will be put out for you....

I wonder if all the people that complained when they received the fine that the police weren't out there catching REAL criminals say the same thing when they keep taking police off the road because your all up in arms after getting caught doing something illegal?

I think that a bull may have excreted this "advice"

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

That's a novel approach.

I'd like to know though, if/when you are ultimately found guilty of these offences, can all the associated court costs, admin costs etc etc be added to your initial fine, making the whole process extremely costly and a waste of everybody's time?

I'm not having a go, I just wonder what the true consequences are if one was to go down this path. The idea has been around for a long time, yet it has never caught on, and personally I don't know anyone who has fought traffic infringements with any success.

I'm pretty sure that's what would happen. You know damn well the police are always right...it's literally not worth the effort of taking all the time off work involved in fighting speeding fines, as they are seen as "faultless".
Cameras? Always, 110% accurate.
Radar trap? Several ex-policemen I work with all say they way they would defend them in court was to say something along the lines of "I observed the vehicle travelling towards me and estimated it's speed at (for example) 70kph in a 60 zone. I confirmed this with the radar gun and got a reading of 72kph". See what they did there...? You're now not questioning a soulless piece of technology...you're questioning the professional judgement of an experienced traffic officer.

Pay up and be a good little citizen...unless of course you can wrangle the financial backing to go through a lengthy court process.

[Angeldust]

i think the above would work, but EVERYBODY would have to challange their fines in a short period.

[DDXR6T]

Obviously not written by a Police Officer. Any Police officer would know that contesting a matter all the way to the end and being found guilty, can incur court costs. So, this approach is likely to cost more than the original fine. Also, if you don't rock up to court, a warrant gets issued for your arrest. Normally, the first warrant issued will have bail allowed and a subsequent warrant will be no bail (This is in SA, other states are different). So, if you were to get picked up on Friday night, you'll be sleeping in Police cells all weekend until court reopens on a Monday morning.

Also, Police and other associated court staff, all get paid the same no matter how long something goes for. Who picks up the bill in the end? Not the Police, not the courts... The taxpayer.

[jaydee]

What a load of rubbish. The camera operator very rarely attends Court, the prosecutor hands up a document with their credentials on it. Only if you are contesting the validity of the operator do they come to Court and if it appears you're wasting the Courts time the fine may be more than the original ticket.

If you keep putting it off and don't turn up on the day set and you've already had a couple of adjournments they will hear it without you and find you guilty and as someone said, plus costs.

[aussie muscle]

If about 10% of all drivers booked follow my specific instructions, then the entire system will crash and become unworkable to the extent, that the government will have no choice but to stop issuing fines for every type of traffic offence.

They won't do that.
More likely the govt would change the legislation to either remove your rights to have it heard in court, or force you into a mediator (non-court) that will always find against you.

[last fairlane]

True story
Down in Melbourne in 1989 and got done for going through a red light
I was in a 42 tonne truck and dog and left on green but the light was red by the time I left the intersection the know all f... all 20 year old cop booked me
I told him about the truck and the weight but still done me
gave me 30 days to pay the $100 fine
I signed the back and opted to go to court
well I got another notice giving me another 30 days to pay
so I got red texta and in big writing wrote I WANT TO GO TO COURT
and never heard anymore
fast forward 6 years and we all got issued with National licences
and the original notice turned up here in Brisbane
so I had to pay it plus costs
it was cheaper than catching a plane just to go to court
just my story

[cobramania]

Much simpler way to avoid all these issues.

STAY OUT OF VICTORIA!!!!