How important is handling to the average car buyer?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by castellan

0.50 is hardly drunk at all is it if you are a drinker but if you are not, one could be rolling on the ground 2 pot screamer.

WOW!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

Drunk Coma (BAC = 0.35 to 0.50 percent)
•Slower Heart rate
•Most likely unconscious
•No reflexes
•Lower body temperature
•Slower breathing

Death (BAC more than 0.50 percent)
•Parties over
•halt breathing and death occurs

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

•Most likely unconscious
•No reflexes

That seems to describe the normal driving of many Camry drivers!

(Seriously, bringing alcohol into the discussion and using it to compare driving standards is rather daft. Better to stay away from that.)

[billy302]

You only have to look as far as the tyres to see how the person thinks about cars.
I see lots of diamond back, Sauva, linglong and others that I can't pronounce or spell.
The only thing they have in common with good tyres is they are indeed black.
As said by others the average person doesn't care.
My Daughter has a Nissan 200 SX Turbo, (Her Toy). It doesn't go out of the garage much these days. I told her the tyres had cured and were dangerous, She ignored me, they had plenty of tread. It wasn't until she scared herself silly in the wet that she went and changed them at the local tyre shop.
When she came over to our home she apologised saying it's a different car with good bight out of corners and is much more precise to drive.
What is the answer though, we all know the problem.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by data_mine

drug/drunk driving penalties is something I fully agree with (and think should be harsher), as you say drivers are bad enough as is, certainly don't want booze or drugs making things worse.

The problem with setting hard limits, is as already said, someone could be hopelessly plastered and be under 0.05, while some liver damaged hard drinker could be perfectly fine to drive. The law doesn't allow for personal differences. Or we'd have variable speed limits for better drivers or worse drivers.

You know i am not advocating drunk driving and anyone who thinks i am is a foolish idiot.
I am just stating the truth.
How do you think we got the law in the first place. remember when you had rights. you walked the line and all then the cops could have ya if ya did not pass.
I have been a passenger in cars and be blown if i would ever want to go back in with some, and they are the stupid little whinging wining Nam pampbi narrow minded hopeless idiots that it's no use talking to. Try asking them when was the last time you checked your tyre pressures or anything and they have know idea at all. get the message

And don't ask the gov to help drivers up date their driving skills or dare i say a pratical driving center day training. O' no they will all be come hoons so say the idiots.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

WOW!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

I meant 0.05 bro.

[whynot]

While I do agree with the OP assessment that a Mazda 3 is a better handling car than a Corolla, I am not sure if OP narrative gives too much emphasis on subjectivity over objectivity. An interesting article is the Wheels active safety test. In 2008, Wheels put 14 vehicles through a variety of racetrack tests (e.g. dry/wet braking, slalom, high speed lane changes) and then ranked them. One can read the results here

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...8-results-6328


A point that is often missed in these discussions is that it is difficult to tune a vehicle’s handling to satisfy the wide variety of road conditions and driver skills. While a soft suspension car, like a Corolla, is very uninspiring in the dry, in the wet it is another matter for the below average driver. The Corolla gives plenty of warning that it is going to bite. The Corolla, with its soft suspension, will often scare the driver (think pimply faced teenager, Ma, or Pa) into backing off, well before the tyres reaches the limits of adhesion. It is no surprise then that in the Wheels test it scored 2nd for emergency braking, 2nd for outright grip, and 1st in the slalom (over an XR6). This was a quantitative test result.

Personally, I would not buy a Corolla. The second car in this household is a Mazda 3. That said; when I think of the environment that the typical Corolla lives in, trundling down to the local supermarket or picking the kids up from school, my view is that the Toyota engineers correctly set the suspension tune for that customer category.

Each to their own …

[TMC]

People just want MAG WHEELS.

[jpd80]

A salesman once told me this list he drew up from speaking to
a broad range of potential and actual buyers

Desirable attributes as determined by the buyer:
- Acceptable fuel economy in standard form (won't pay extra)
- Performance of standard engine (won't pay extra)
- Well appointed standard vehicle (won't pay extra)
- Good standard brakes (won't pay extra)
- Comfortable ride with good turn in on standard vehicle (won't pay extra)

Anyone notice a pattern here?

People are asking for "complete cars" preferably loaded with plenty of features,
they want a discount and for the most part won't pay extra if they can avoid it...

So you can forget about wheels and tyres, brake, steering and suspension options outside of factory sports versions.

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by whynot

While I do agree with the OP assessment that a Mazda 3 is a better handling car than a Corolla, I am not sure if OP narrative gives too much emphasis on subjectivity over objectivity. An interesting article is the Wheels active safety test. In 2008, Wheels put 14 vehicles through a variety of racetrack tests (e.g. dry/wet braking, slalom, high speed lane changes) and then ranked them. One can read the results here

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...8-results-6328


A point that is often missed in these discussions is that it is difficult to tune a vehicle’s handling to satisfy the wide variety of road conditions and driver skills. While a soft suspension car, like a Corolla, is very uninspiring in the dry, in the wet it is another matter for the below average driver. The Corolla gives plenty of warning that it is going to bite. The Corolla, with its soft suspension, will often scare the driver (think pimply faced teenager, Ma, or Pa) into backing off, well before the tyres reaches the limits of adhesion. It is no surprise then that in the Wheels test it scored 2nd for emergency braking, 2nd for outright grip, and 1st in the slalom (over an XR6). This was a quantitative test result.

Personally, I would not buy a Corolla. The second car in this household is a Mazda 3. That said; when I think of the environment that the typical Corolla lives in, trundling down to the local supermarket or picking the kids up from school, my view is that the Toyota engineers correctly set the suspension tune for that customer category.

Each to their own …

And from that link, here is a quote which re-enforces my comment regarding the fact that you do not have to buy a Falcon to appreciate good handling;

"The Mazda3 also out-hot lapped the XR6, and that has to wound the Falcon's pride possibly more than all its other insults against XR6's character combined."

^ Were talking about a standard Mazda3 here beating an XR6 on the hot lap !

[Nikked]

The Mazda 3 would have more KW per KG, so thats an advantage...

[graham7773]

Ah well, I wasn't going to buy in but couldn't help myself. If you want a car that handles like a sports car, buy a sports car. But don't whinge about the 99% of other drivers on the road in their family cars or little fuel sippers who are driving to stay alive and get where they are going reasonably safely without being harrassed by other drivers in worked (factory or not) cars that want to be travelling at whatever over the posted speed limits. You all know who you are.