Holden Statesman

mowog · 17-11-2008, 01:00 PM

I just had a weekend trip to Townsville where I hired a Statesman V6 from Avis. The car had 10000klm on the clock so it was pretty new.

My car(s) 2005 SY Territory Ghia AWD and the XR6 Turbo Ute.

My opening comment here is if anyone tests drives a Statesman and a Territory on the same day I cant imagine they would buy the Statesman. I know the cars are in different market segments and I doubt many people would cross shop them.

The Statesman is a barge the steering is woolly and unresponsive. The brakes are soggy and at best bloody average. The Engine and gearbox I can only hope the V8 version is better. The V6 is rough the transmission hunts up and down for gears. The V6 is just plain unresponsive.

My Territory has 45000klm on it and after the Statesman experiance I have new found respect for the old girl. It is a far more pleasant and refined drive than the Statesman.

If this "The Statesman" is a top of the line experiance in the Commodore range then I shudder to think how bad the rest are. I have driven an FG G6E Turbo and I wonder how the Commodore continues to out sell the Falcon.

PoMmYwOG · 17-11-2008, 02:14 PM

becuase holden market their cars alot better than ford...

i used to hate fords,but after owning two holdens, i decided to try out a ford, test drove a few XR6's (and XR6T, was dreaming tho) and i found my BA XR6 drives soooo much better than even the VY Calais supercharged V6 i was looking at...was faster, handled waaayy better and was way more comfy...

Even the VE GTS i drove, the steering was crap, was really heavy and would groan and vibrate when parking. my BA steerign is beautiful, easy to manuvre with just one hand.

The ford 6 is miles ahead of the holden V6 IMO anyway.

AUIIForte · 17-11-2008, 02:42 PM

I see maybe 2 FG's a week, if I'm lucky, and I've been catching buses for the past month, and in peak hours. It almost seems like the FG hasn't been officially put on the market. Its probably been said before, but the FG had the worst marketing campaign I have ever seen/heard.

Really bad to see, seeing as the FG is an awesome machine.

Smoke Pursuit · 17-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Yeh id never buy a V6 holden, they are absolute garbish! The V8s are alright, but the interior is cheap and nasty.

DivHunter · 17-11-2008, 02:57 PM

The first time I saw an FG was on the road and I realised 'oh yeah they released a new one'.

I drove a V6 statesman not that long ago and actually asked if it was the new one it was such a slow sack of crap. My mum's Hyundai goes harder and my dad's Jetta puts it to shame. It's these things that make me appreciate the 230kw at my daily's wheels.

XR6_661 · 17-11-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

I see maybe 2 FG's a week, if I'm lucky, and I've been catching buses for the past month, and in peak hours. It almost seems like the FG hasn't been officially put on the market. Its probably been said before, but the FG had the worst marketing campaign I have ever seen/heard.

Really bad to see, seeing as the FG is an awesome machine.

Come to Cairns mate. Nearly as many up here now as there are B-series. Not FPVs as yet though that I know of.

irlewy86 · 17-11-2008, 03:18 PM

Alloytec= Giant leap backwards in engine technology

Imagine how much more gutless it would be if it had some balance shafts in it. It'll be interesting to see the direct injection Alloytec with a decent box behind it. Still don't think it will be competitive in the market though.

EgoFG · 17-11-2008, 03:22 PM

I started a 'sighting' log last week
Day, FG Sedan, VE Sedan, VE Hatchback, FG Ute, VE Ute
12/11, 3, 4, 0, 1, 2
13/11, 1, 7, 1, 1, 0

Remember that the VE sedan has, what, an 18 month headstart

If I can stick with it I will start a thread with totals and trends

seduced_xr · 17-11-2008, 03:24 PM

i drive the ecotech v6 quite often with the 4 speed auto behind it. most of the time i think who could use this crap as a daily. i was backing out the driveway and a car came speeding around the corner. i pulled it down 2 clicks into D and gave the acc a gentle tap. the car didnt move and i just got a huge thud, all i can say is wow holden. u failed

Feathers · 17-11-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

I drove a V6 statesman not that long ago and actually asked if it was the new one it was such a slow sack of crap. My mum's Hyundai goes harder and my dad's Jetta puts it to shame. It's these things that make me appreciate the 230kw at my daily's wheels.

I even tried it in the manual mode and it was still an absolute dog.
Couldn't see out of it, the parking sensors drove me nuts. The levers for moving the seat were too complicated and trying to open the fuel door was a challenge.

Boy was I happy to hand it back!!

Smoke Pursuit · 17-11-2008, 05:05 PM

How can opening the fuel door be a challange, press on it and it pops out at you :P

Feathers · 17-11-2008, 05:09 PM

Only if the car is fully unlocked. I NEVER leave my cars unlocked at a servo.

BlackLS · 17-11-2008, 05:15 PM

But the Stato looks so sweet!

Hally · 17-11-2008, 10:36 PM

Some of you guts just don't get it......

Who are you trying to justify that the Falcon is better than the Commodore/Statesman? We all know that it is!!! What you can't change is the new car buying publics perception about Falcons. Some of these are:

- lack of resale
- poor dealer network
- taxi image, Some people admire the reliabilty, but most hate the image.
- taxi image again. Some people think a Fairmont will have the same whining diff a taxi with 500,000 k's on it does.
- The FG is seen as a make over of the BA, which was an AU. The VE was touted as n all new design.

I was in the same boat two months ago. I drove the FG (G6) and wanted one. I can get national fleet pricing through work but the driveaway price wasn't much better than retail, the service at the time of looking was good, but a few days later when I advised the salesman I was looking at alternative, I was basically told I was an idiot.

In the end I bought a Maxima (daily driver that needs to be comfortable, reliable and doesn't look like a pov pack), manly because of the price, solid resale and customer service.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Windsor220 · 17-11-2008, 10:49 PM

Theres way too many of these Holden are crap threads. We all know they are. Theres no point in keep going over it.

duaned · 17-11-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowog

I just had a weekend trip to Townsville where I hired a My opening comment here is if anyone tests drives a Statesman and a Territory on the same day I cant imagine they would buy the Statesman. I know the cars are in different market segments and I doubt many people would cross shop them.

The Statesman is a barge the steering is woolly and unresponsive. The brakes are soggy and at best bloody average. The Engine and gearbox I can only hope the V8 version is better. The V6 is rough the transmission hunts up and down for gears. The V6 is just plain unresponsive.

Swordsman88 · 18-11-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_661

Come to Cairns mate. Nearly as many up here now as there are B-series. Not FPVs as yet though that I know of.

This is good to hear. I will be up that way at the end of the year on holiday to visit the folks so i hope to see them around. I see Cairns and Mackay at the two biggest falcon dominated places i think in australia - everywhere. People in the regional cities don't have the sort of cash of some city folk i think so go for the local stuff. Great to see at least somewhere in australia they still support the falcon.

xy500 · 18-11-2008, 02:22 AM

i drive an ecotec six, and find them very reasonable - good power, good towing ability and great economy, the auto trans on the other hand is crap.
I'd go a supercharged stato over a turbo fpv anyday, way better low down torque.

Swordsman88 · 18-11-2008, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xy500

i drive an ecotec six, and find them very reasonable - good power, good towing ability and great economy, the auto trans on the other hand is crap.
I'd go a supercharged stato over a turbo fpv anyday, way better low down torque.

I actually reckon the old ecotec wasn't that bad an engine. Sure it wasn't that advanced (i remember holden telling everyone that because it was V6 it was advanced....ah yeah pushrods anyone) but it made pretty good low down torque, if not that much of it. In the lighter commodore body it would have been quite good i think if it wasn't for possibly the worst auto i've ever driven.

Most things are just tuning but i don't think you can make that auto any good no matter what you do with it. It had large gaps in ratios like any 4 speed but was so stupid it would get confused and jump around, making the engine spin up to 4000rpm (not good in a old ecotec) for no reason????

Pretty much number 1 reason i will never touch a commie from that period if it has that auto no matter what it is.

As for the supercharged, well it wasn't light on fuel and also wasn't very refined with the same auto. And i wouldn't be taking one over a turbo falcon any day of the week thanks - it has barely any more grunt than a AU VCT, let alone a turbo BA?????

aualright · 18-11-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hally

Some of you guts just don't get it......

Who are you trying to justify that the Falcon is better than the Commodore/Statesman? We all know that it is!!! What you can't change is the new car buying publics perception about Falcons. Some of these are:

- lack of resale
- poor dealer network
- taxi image, Some people admire the reliabilty, but most hate the image.
- taxi image again. Some people think a Fairmont will have the same whining diff a taxi with 500,000 k's on it does.
- The FG is seen as a make over of the BA, which was an AU. The VE was touted as n all new design.

I was in the same boat two months ago. I drove the FG (G6) and wanted one. I can get national fleet pricing through work but the driveaway price wasn't much better than retail, the service at the time of looking was good, but a few days later when I advised the salesman I was looking at alternative, I was basically told I was an idiot.

In the end I bought a Maxima (daily driver that needs to be comfortable, reliable and doesn't look like a pov pack), manly because of the price, solid resale and customer service.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Less fleet discounting should help resale, in theory.

mcnews · 18-11-2008, 01:00 PM

A V8 Statesman is a nice car. A V6 Statesman is putrid. No use having a nice interior if it has the same crude mechanicals as the base model.

irlewy86 · 18-11-2008, 01:58 PM

I don't think they have many private sales for 6 pot Stato's. Worth the extra coin for the V8, espically considering their really isn't a massive difference in fuel costs anyway

schnoods · 18-11-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xy500

i drive an ecotec six, and find them very reasonable - good power, good towing ability and great economy, the auto trans on the other hand is crap.
I'd go a supercharged stato over a turbo fpv anyday, way better low down torque.

I'd go the 5.7 or 6.0L over the supercharged 6 anyday. Before i bought my gen3 stato i test drove the supercharged 6. All the poke they supposedly had down low was killed with the gearing, then ran out of puff up top. The 5.7 was effortless compared to it, though over 3000 it really started moving.

Was enough to propel me and the stato to a 14.9 second quarter bog stock. Me in the car would have nudged close to 2 tonne.

snakeoil · 18-11-2008, 09:15 PM

I have recently driven several VE holdens
and would say that although they are not my cup of tea they are very very good cars
Statesman 6 litre absolutely awesome to drive given its purpose in life

Smoke Pursuit · 18-11-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeoil

I have recently driven several VE holdens
and would say that although they are not my cup of tea they are very very good cars
Statesman 6 litre absolutely awesome to drive given its purpose in life

You obviously havent driven too many BF / FG Falcons. Holden = the official grub car of the year.