Shooting

[la2or]

Originally Posted by WAXBFAR

I think that any frank conversation re Firearms in the publik domain will not flourish.
The publik perception and hence view of firearms is very bad.
Owning up to having (legal) firearms is to dangerous.
even having ammo outside your firearms registry is prohibited and will cause Huge ramifications, I.E. confiscation of all firearms without compensation plus a hefty fine!
just my oppinion.

I was just trying to him off. Most Aussie are against guns I know.

What do you mean by ammo outside the registry? You mean ammo you bought off the black market?

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by la2or

I was just trying to him off. Most Aussie are against guns I know.

How about you don't .. or take it to PM so the thread doesn't get closed. Winding up people with narrow views is like ****ing with sandpaper... it should be fun but it just really isn't !

[la2or]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rUDAEjkc_zM

this guy made a few safety videos.

[youtube]rUDAEjkc_zM[/youtube]

also if bullet doesnt fire. u point in safe direction hold gun away from body like motorbike grip, wait 30 seconds then work the action to eject and give round to gun club to dispose

[Interceptor]

*meh* i refuse to be handed a firearm if the action isnt open and i have been shown the chamber to be empty

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Quasi

You're kidding right?

Let's ignore all the mass and serial shootings that take place on an almost regular basis then shall we. Really, if you're going to put forward a case in favour of widespread gun ownership you should stay well clear of using any country as an example where the basis of gun ownership is centred around a 231 year old constitutional amendment that was written and passed in a time of war....and where those that want the guns use this over the gutless politicians who refuse to make major changes.

Yes, I have firearms training....and no, I don't see a need for one. They were a tool to achieve an end result.....nothing more.

No I don't kid when it comes to guns mate, firearm ownership should be legal as far I'm concerned, gun's are tool's just like an axe or a knife, in the wrong hand's it become's a weapon but law-abiding Citizens should be allowed to protect themselves in our increasingly violent society...of course they should also be provided with all the necessary training in the safe use and storage of their firearms.

The US Constitution was put in place for a reason and it is vital for maintaining a person's civil rights, regardless of whether they are living in peace or a wartime situation...the US President swears his allegiance to it, that alone makes it relevant today...eg the 1st ammendment guarantees "freedom of speech"...where would our society be without this basic right?...

[HLC]

Originally Posted by WAXBFAR

I think that any frank conversation re Firearms in the publik domain will not flourish.
The publik perception and hence view of firearms is very bad.
Owning up to having (legal) firearms is to dangerous.
even having ammo outside your firearms registry is prohibited and will cause Huge ramifications, I.E. confiscation of all firearms without compensation plus a hefty fine!
just my oppinion.

no it wont, many people store, and reload their own ammunition in the privacy of their own home.




so many people are misinformed with the law.

[WAXBFAR]

If you do have a licensed .22longrange and no other firearm than that on your license; then you are only allowed to have .22longrange ammo.
It is illegal to have i.e..22-250 or any other than .22 longrange in your safekeeping/possesion.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by WAXBFAR

If you do have a licensed .22longrange and no other firearm than that on your license; then you are only allowed to have .22longrange ammo.
It is illegal to have i.e..22-250 or any other than .22 longrange in your safekeeping/possesion.

can't help myself..., it's long rifle not long range. It's even more confusing at there is a 22 long, a subsonic effort.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Bent8

No I don't kid when it comes to guns mate, firearm ownership should be legal as far I'm concerned, gun's are tool's just like an axe or a knife, in the wrong hand's it become's a weapon but law-abiding Citizens should be allowed to protect themselves in our increasingly violent society...of course they should also be provided with all the necessary training in the safe use and storage of their firearms.

The US Constitution was put in place for a reason and it is vital for maintaining a person's civil rights, regardless of whether they are living in peace or a wartime situation...the US President swears his allegiance to it, that alone makes it relevant today...eg the 1st ammendment guarantees "freedom of speech"...where would our society be without this basic right?...

how about everyone retreats to their corner before the thread gets nailed.

We are not in America and don't need American laws .. end of story... let's move on.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by WAXBFAR

If you do have a licensed .22longrange and no other firearm than that on your license; then you are only allowed to have .22longrange ammo.
It is illegal to have i.e..22-250 or any other than .22 longrange in your safekeeping/possesion.

It's pathetic...I was at the shooting range a few weeks ago and the guy told me not to collect any of the 9mm shell casings after I was finished firing their Glock because it's illegal to collect the shells!!!...

Okay while we're on the topic of shooting, check out this vid...I never thought it would be possible but a company in CA has made Level 5 body armour that will stop 7.62x39mm steel-core rounds from an AK...its amazing, here's a short video of it in action. It even stopped a grenade blast!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0pS...eature=related

[la2or]

Id ring up WA weapons branch and ask or go to a shooters forum. pm me for some. Because the shooters forums often know more than the weapons branch.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bent8

It's pathetic...I was at the shooting range a few weeks ago and the guy told me not to collect any of the 9mm shell casings after I was finished firing their Glock because it's illegal to collect the shells!!!...

Translation:

I want the cases so leave them.

Empty brass whether fired or unfired is not ammunition and is not covered and any weapons act. It is even legal to carry in a cabin of an aircraft (although you will have trouble convincing the intellectual giants that do security). N.B. I have done this on many occaisions on QANTAS.

In the same way a stock, optics or other minor components such as screws etc. are not restricted.

You can posess any "normal" ammunition provided you have a legitimate reason. e.g. If you are going clay shooting at a club but are going to loan a gun you can have as many shot shells are you like.
40mm goldies or 50BMG are a bit harder to give a legit reason for.

There is a huge amount of misinformation in this thread and across the general shooting community. Read the act and regs, that is the law, not what the police say, not what your club guru says, not what the gun shop guy says and definitely not what your mates buddy's pal says.

How do I know? I held a dealers licence for 12 years, concealed carry licence for 8 years and wrote the CAFR (Computer aided firearms register) software that is used to track weapons.

P.S. I still know people in Tas, Vic, NSW and QLD who have concealed carry and/or fully and semi-auto firearms legally. (Almost) NOTHING is banned outright but many things are really really difficult to do legally since 1997.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Read the act and regs, that is the law, not what the police say, not what your club guru says, not what the gun shop guy says and definitely not what your mates buddy's pal says.

While the comment re:pals and various other opinions are correct, you need to consider any caselaw too. What seems to be legal from the a reading of the legislation may still be illegal in practice due to caselaw. Caselaw interprets and widens the legislative net, and while limited to the wording of an act and the regulations, it comes down to how certain terms are defined by courts. The legal definition may not be the same as the common definition.

Just thought Id add that, it does complicate the reading of an act. No understanding of law is complete without looking at the caselaw. Simply interpreting the legislation and acting on that is a fools game, fraught with danger.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by fmc351

While the comment re:pals and various other opinions are correct, you need to consider any caselaw too. What seems to be legal from the a reading of the legislation may still be illegal in practice due to caselaw. Caselaw interprets and widens the legislative net, and while limited to the wording of an act and the regulations, it comes down to how certain terms are defined by courts. The legal definition may not be the same as the common definition.

Just thought Id add that, it does complicate the reading of an act. No understanding of law is complete without looking at the caselaw. Simply interpreting the legislation and acting on that is a fools game, fraught with danger.

True although the majority of weapon offences are heard in Magistrates Court which is not a court of record and even courts are bound by the law.

[Duke]

Hey guys, the ball continues to roll along. So far so good I think. After receiving my approval from firearms registry, I underwent my firearms safety training this arvo and passed 100%. Not exactly rocket science but it's done. Now, come Monday, I can post the test results and the other bits and pieces to the registry and hopefully get my license soon.

Yah for me.

[2fishingdogs]

Congrats on passing. I know what you mean by not rocket science, last year when I did my saftey course the instructor said that there was only one person who had failed since the current laws came in (1996 I think)

[ZHANDY]

My armoury consists of 2 heavy barrelled .303s, a Martini Cadet 32/20, a Lithgow Slazenger 22 Hornet my current fav and an old double barrelled hammered Cashmore 12 bore, my brother in law and myself are avid duck hunters, we have a coupleof propertys we help to keep the feral wood ducks under control, these buggers dont do cereal crops any good, they fairly rip into them. Looking for somewhere to plug some pigs close to home (ACT) any ideas? A damn fine sport totally love it the art of hunting was once a father and son thing where dad taught the boy how to plink tin cans and stepping up to rabbits and on from there, he intern taught his boys etc etc while we are caught up in redtape its still fun, How do we all think the Labour movement is going to help us out as legitimate owners of fire arms with a legitimate hobby. yes and indeed Norms SMLE is nice at 1908, I have a 1907 SMLE which is my regular target rifle, has a heavy barrel, central appeture sight, walnut stock, damn heavy, the Mk3 SMLE is in my opinion the finest rifle ever made, a bueatiful action and very slick.

[Duke]

I need of a letter from a property owner enabling me to get my hunting cat B license. It's a big ask I know but if anyone is feeling big hearted, it'd help a lot.

Doesn't mean I'd use the land of course, just gets me the paperwork and the time to find somewhere locally.

[ZHANDY]

Just flicking through some of the other comments, naturally there are a few people who dont share our view, please dont can these people for there beliefs, we know what we do, we know the good and bad, the greater majority of owners do a service to the farmers, not to mention general feral eradication, the feral pigs are going to over take this country and leave the humble roo behind far as numbers are concerned, the odd idiot does the wrong thing now and again and spoils it for the rest of us but dont compare us to the States yet, U cant just roll into a shop and buy a 9mm over the counter and walk out , doesnt quiet work like that, these days u stand far more chance of being knifed, stabbed with a needle, hit with a baseball bat which is fastly becoming popular here, run over by a car or bus, die of cancer before u will ever have to worry about a firearm. It is "legal" to store ammo inyour home provided it is locked in a container seperate to your guns and naturally any powder stocked by reloaders and primers should be kept under lock and key.

Personally my own measures are this,
My hobby room is steel, the windows are meshed with tamper proof fixtures, the door has triple locks , inside the rifles are stored in another steel safe, each bolt is removed the actions that are non strippable are cabled with stainless wires and stainless locks, not to mention trigger locks and the main cable that wraps them all in a group and goes through and eye bolt fixed inside the inside the safe, my bolts are kept in a small steel safe which is bolted securely, the second safe houses primers and powders and my stock of reloaded ammuntion, not to mention the german shepherd who cruises the yard and isnt really that friendly, so anyone who may think security is hap hazard think again and most of us are like this, even when we travel to and fro my rifles are cabled into the car and the bolts kept seperate in a lock box and we stop for nothing, the car is never left unattended, I do the right thing, I care for my sport, I enjoy my sport and hope to do so for many years yet.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by Duke

I need of a letter from a property owner enabling me to get my hunting cat B license. It's a big ask I know but if anyone is feeling big hearted, it'd help a lot.

Doesn't mean I'd use the land of course, just gets me the paperwork and the time to find somewhere locally.

yeah Just going thou this my-self for the second time.
Have it sorted now just need to get down the Cop shop to fill the forms out

,Thou gaining accesses to Property is not a problem for me, as I know 2 people and others friends who have contacts who have access to property's, But because i don't know the owner personally, it makes it hard as normally they don't like giving out letters/ vouching for people they don't know.

I have a 2nd cousin who has a 1.2 Million acre station but being as i have only met him once when I was 14, I feel it's a bit rude to call up asking for a letter.

I am in WA so not much good to ya LOL

[la2or]

I think the hardest questions are.

1. If the gun range officer says stop shooting, you just stop leave your gun pointed down range in a safe direction n wait for further commands rather than removing ammo immediately

2. Also if you see someone shot and there is a gun nearby, the first thing you do is look for danger,etc you dont just go straight to remove the gun.

[HLC]

flappist is my new god.

i want a concealed carry licence.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by HLC

flappist is my new god.

i want a concealed carry licence.

No you don't.....

To make this a bit more clear. A licence to possess a handgun is issued for a purpose if you can show a requirement for the licence.
The most common licence is often called a "Pistol Club" licence. The purpose of it is to allow athe licencee to partake in the sport of target pistol shooting and for no other purpose. Misbehave and they will nail you to a cross.
The second most common licence is "security guard/organisation" licence. This licence is issued, usually to the organisation rather than the guard to allow the guard to possess a handgun for the protection of valuables e.g. money or gold etc.
The licence is normally restricted to the guard being in uniform, the firearm being in a holster on display and the actual job being done at that time requiring it. e.g. Shopping mall or nightclub duties do no comply.
The Australian version of "concealed carry" is also very heavily restricted and a very good case has to be put up before the police will issue it (Actually it usually end up in court as they almost always knock it back).

Legitimate reasons are personal protection (if you are an important, rich, connected person who makes enemies e.g. Kerry Packer & John Laws both had/have CC), protection against theft of weapons (my reason at the time), protection of gold etc (jewelers), protection of S8 drugs (doctors and the odd pharmacist), bodyguards (not as common as you might think), protection of cash in areas that do not have adequate banking facilities (not everyone lives in SydMelBrisAdlPer) and a host of others.

The one thing they WILL NOT issue it for is self protection if you are an "ordinary" person.

Besides all that the most important reason you really should not have a concealed firearm is that the bad guy might shoot you with it and that really hurts a lot. It takes lots and lots of training and repetitive practice to be even remotely competent with a handgun and believe me there are very few things scarier than being on your own in fear of your life, adrenaline pumping and you have the heebie jeebies, dry sweats and knotted gut and you have a device that can kill and might just kill the wrong person in your hand.

So I repeat, NO YOU DON'T want a concealed carry licence and probably dont want to be accidentially shot by an untrained idiot in shock who mistakes you for the bad guy........

[la2or]

I was told that bodyguards in Australia arent allowed to use guns.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by flappist

No you don't.....

To make this a bit more clear. A licence to possess a handgun is issued for a purpose if you can show a requirement for the licence.
The most common licence is often called a "Pistol Club" licence. The purpose of it is to allow athe licencee to partake in the sport of target pistol shooting and for no other purpose. Misbehave and they will nail you to a cross.
The second most common licence is "security guard/organisation" licence. This licence is issued, usually to the organisation rather than the guard to allow the guard to possess a handgun for the protection of valuables e.g. money or gold etc.
The licence is normally restricted to the guard being in uniform, the firearm being in a holster on display and the actual job being done at that time requiring it. e.g. Shopping mall or nightclub duties do no comply.
The Australian version of "concealed carry" is also very heavily restricted and a very good case has to be put up before the police will issue it (Actually it usually end up in court as they almost always knock it back).

Legitimate reasons are personal protection (if you are an important, rich, connected person who makes enemies e.g. Kerry Packer & John Laws both had/have CC), protection against theft of weapons (my reason at the time), protection of gold etc (jewelers), protection of S8 drugs (doctors and the odd pharmacist), bodyguards (not as common as you might think), protection of cash in areas that do not have adequate banking facilities (not everyone lives in SydMelBrisAdlPer) and a host of others.

The one thing they WILL NOT issue it for is self protection if you are an "ordinary" person.

Besides all that the most important reason you really should not have a concealed firearm is that the bad guy might shoot you with it and that really hurts a lot. It takes lots and lots of training and repetitive practice to be even remotely competent with a handgun and believe me there are very few things scarier than being on your own in fear of your life, adrenaline pumping and you have the heebie jeebies, dry sweats and knotted gut and you have a device that can kill and might just kill the wrong person in your hand.

So I repeat, NO YOU DON'T want a concealed carry licence and probably dont want to be accidentially shot by an untrained idiot in shock who mistakes you for the bad guy........

no no, i do want that sort of licence, and i do understand all the ramifications of it.

whilst my licence is only ABH target rifle/pistol and hunting, my current employment will see me with a security licence in no time if i want and i know all of the crap that goes with it, and currently, i dont need it, if i got it, it would purely be because i want it. and from then on i need to find myself a damn good reason for CC lol

ive been around guns for most of my life, nowhere near as long as you, and i understand the damage that could be done if someone grabs my own firearm or mistakes me for osama or some other bad guy.

whilst my nearly 7 years of handgun shooting is nothing compared to the stuff that you have done, my competition track record shows that i am very competent with a pistol. i understand there is always a lot more that can be learned, and that is why ive taken up IPSC. to learn new skills and disciplines that i wouldnt usually cover in boring indoor range shooting even though we try and spice it up with level 0 IPSC type stuff or shooting bowling pins lol.

all that being said, noone is perfect and people still screw up. its a massive responsibility to be carrying a loaded firearm and yeah it would be downright scary if it was concealed and noone knew.

all that being said, i love my firearms. and im trying my best to get some work placement in the industry for my Industrial Design Honours project next year.

but yeah, all that being said, i dont really have a valid reason to CC. but i would love to anyway.

[la2or]

flappist what type of shop do you run? is it a supplier to security guards or just a regular gun shop and is there a difference?

1 thing I think you left out is handguns for farmers purposes but they need to show why they cant use a long arm. Id say because super fast rabbits are charging at them and they need to unload quick or a small gun is easier to hide from scaring the stupid publich.

So to get a licence for your type of job you have to be the top dog at your gun shop not the co-workers?

[la2or]

Also with the Concealed ccw weapon thing, can Alan Jones own a semiautomatic rifle or shotgun for defence or is it just generally a 9mm pistol with 10 rounds?

[HLC]

mate, where do you hear this crap?

why do you automatically assume is has to be a 9mm with 10 rounds?

i'm assuming there are some laws stating what you can and cant carry as a Concealed firearm, but im sure there would be some real nice pistols being carried.

i'll take an STI Eagle in .38 Super please :

[la2or]

I didnt mean it was specifically that. But I was curious as to the weapons such a person would be limited too.

like it is hard for farmers to get pistols for farm work for example I wondered how the rules were in ccw as to what type of weapons they could carry.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by la2or

I didnt mean it was specifically that. But I was curious as to the weapons such a person would be limited too.

like it is hard for farmers to get pistols for farm work for example I wondered how the rules were in ccw as to what type of weapons they could carry.

you cant use pistols for hunting, so as far as a farmer getting a pistol for anything other than target shooting, i dont think so.

that being said, who is gonna be out in the middle of a farmers property policing how they use their pistols or not.