I am throwing down the gauntlet!!! - Page 3

jonbays · 17-10-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proma

Casper your car has had vernier gears fitted,that means it's opened?

This just shows how much C37P this unopened business is.

All VCT engines come with a vernier gear stock.

dansedgli · 17-10-2006, 09:58 AM

They come with an adjustable verneir gear stock?

**Mechan1k** · 17-10-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

they do.. but its not running a stock engine. Its been opened in a big way.

For low-13s and high 12's a full engine rebuild is needed. I know of a certain EL Fairmont that is looking at high 12s at the moment ... still getting tuned at the moment ... and yes ... N/A ... but manual.

Casper · 17-10-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

They come with an adjustable verneir gear stock?

Yes. Its built into the VCT mechanism. All VCT's have factory fitted adjustable vernier gear. Its something I'll be looking at utalising soon too. The cam is at factory settings at the moment but I would like to try adjusting it to see if any improvements can be made. The issue is any adjustment of the cam affects the VCT movement which means it may gain in some areas but lose in others.

OED666 · 17-10-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Sorry, and it's not that I don't believe you or anything, but what real compromises do you make or little things do you tell to yourself to determine that it is "completely streetable"?

its easy to drive, not a real pig at all. who in brisbane wants to have a drive of my car... (i might see a few hands now. :P)

Racecraft · 17-10-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OED666

its easy to drive, not a real pig at all. who in brisbane wants to have a drive of my car... (i might see a few hands now. :P)

I agree with OED ... his cam is large but it is tuned correctly and idles as sweet as a button..Same goes for shifter and clutch selection.. Brisbane only has 3 major 100km/h zones . The gateway, Western Freeway and the m1 to the coast so unless you frequent those roads the diff gears are not an issue.. My car is way more 'streetable' with the 3.7's than it was with the 3.08 or 3.45. Brisbane traffic is no where near as painfull as some places so even flicking the stick on a manual isn't a huge drama even in peak hour

I dont think 'streetable' on the i6 from an engine point of view is really a problem, it is more where you go in relation to the posted limits and how many rpm you cruise at.

**Mechan1k** · 17-10-2006, 10:21 AM

Hence why i am interested in going from 3.23s to 3.7s in the ute with the auto ... I see more metro driving .... with some highway (80-90km/h) cruising as well ... more than freeways ... so I'd see the benefit in shorter gears.

dansedgli · 17-10-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper_

You have had your cams degreed,so it's opened.Don't ban me like the others

:

Hmm, who is this guy?

Whats the deal Casper? Any truth to what he is saying?

17-10-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Hmm, who is this guy?

Whats the deal Casper? Any truth to what he is saying?

Sure is mate he will ban you if you don't agree with him just watch

:

dansedgli · 17-10-2006, 10:30 AM

How do you know this stuff?

**Mechan1k** · 17-10-2006, 10:30 AM

Well .. if a cam has been degreed to suit driving style or transmission (getting the most power out of the range available) ... then the rocker cover has to at least come off.

Several people have had to have the engine opened ... mainly to get the rocker cover gasket or head gasket replaced ... not to have mods added too.

it's hard to put a demarcation point of the term "unopened" when it comes to mods really.

Racecraft · 17-10-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Well .. if a cam has been degreed to suit driving style or transmission (getting the most power out of the range available) ... then the rocker cover has to at least come off.

Several people have had to have the engine opened ... mainly to get the rocker cover gasket or head gasket replaced ... not to have mods added too.

it's hard to put a demarcation point of the term "unopened" when it comes to mods really.

yep.. mines opened.. I took the rocker cover off to paint it...

dansedgli · 17-10-2006, 10:34 AM

Obviously changes would have to be made to increase performance from standard. Fixing a leak wouldnt mean your engine is opened.

Mr_4.0 · 17-10-2006, 10:35 AM

im aiming for a 13 in my car when its done. mods will be all thats in my sig, plus im changing valve springs, going for a better tune, and goin to run the crow 2222546.
fingers crossed!

Casper · 17-10-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Hmm, who is this guy?

Whats the deal Casper? Any truth to what he is saying?

It is Alex. He is a banned user with a grudge. He doesnt know. And yes, he will be banned. If not by me than by the entire mod/admin team.

No, there is no truth to what he is saying. The only time the rocker cover has been off my car is at JMM's where brenden put a guage on the cam so see what the factory specs were. When he found the cam was exactly where the specs said it should be no adjustment was made and the rocker cover was replaced. Nothing was changed.
As to if I will change the cam alignment, you bet I will. As I said, it is high on the list now to see if an adjustment will improve the ET's and I hopefully will get it done over the Xmas break. I have no need to hide it as I am looking forward to seeing if it will make a difference, and if it does, posting it up for othe VCT owners to see. Honestly, if I could get it done tomorrow I would.

JC · 17-10-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Not true, theres a few of us running unopened 14's. DeathXR and Stiddy in their manuals, mine and originally Hamo in autos, probably a few others. Neither DeathXR, Stiddy, Hamo or myself had changed the engines in any way to run 14's.

Tripower is running a 14.2 with stock head and cam (although the cam has been adjusted and vernier gear added so it is opened now) as well. 14's is very possible on an unopened and/or stock cam/headed AU I6's.

14s yes, but I said UNDER 14.

JC · 17-10-2006, 02:45 PM

I should clarify that I reckon it's great to get an I6 (especially the heavier AU) into the 13s. I'm just not convinced that it could be used as a daily driver AND on the highway with reasonable fuel consumption etc. ie, it would never really be a family car again. Now for most, this would be fine. But not where the primary purpose of the car is as a family car.

Casper · 17-10-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

I should clarify that I reckon it's great to get an I6 (especially the heavier AU) into the 13s. I'm just not convinced that it could be used as a daily driver AND on the highway with reasonable fuel consumption etc. ie, it would never really be a family car again. Now for most, this would be fine. But not where the primary purpose of the car is as a family car.

I agree. It "could" be quite streetable and easy to drive but, as an economic and practical family car/highway cruiser, no, I dont think so. I've already found that for just mundane trips to the shops etc, I prefer to drive the Kia these days. If anything simply because its cheaper on fuel, doesnt show up scratches as much and every ******** doesnt want to race you. It certainly isnt a family car anymore.. but to me its still very streetable.

OED666 · 17-10-2006, 03:52 PM

what is the weight an AU in the owners manual. on the redbook site, there is 4kgs difference between manual ED's and manual AU's. :S

Casper · 17-10-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OED666

what is the weight an AU in the owners manual. on the redbook site, there is 4kgs difference between manual ED's and manual AU's. :S

From another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

Ford exagerated the weight loss of the AU's by being a bit too clever quoting the weight of the lightest possible variant of each model. Most accurate weights i have seen quoted by testers in magazines is.

AUI XR6 manual 1520Kg Auto 1553KG
AUI XR6 VCT manual 1615Kg Auto 1644KG
AUI XR8 manual 1624Kg Auto 1657KG
AUI Forte 1515KG Forte wagon 1598KG
AUI futura 1525KG Fairmont 1531KG Fairmont Ghia 1650KG.

AUII got more sound deadening and stuff and probably got heavier but the specs stayed the same.

I can say on WSID scrutineering lane 1 weighbridge my AUII Fairmont wagon weiged in at 1650kg

AUTickford · 17-10-2006, 08:18 PM

Wots the big deal man course it can be done if jim mock can get an eb down the quarter in 13.5 na u can do it with an au. Purely and simply money is the answer. I dont think an auto will cut it on the street coz to do a 13 an na 6 will be virtually unstreetable, doesnt mean it cant be done. You would need the same cam as mocky used obviously coz hes the ford 6 man and hes tested everything he sells. He also invested time and effort into the suspension setup. All the power in the world wont help with no traction.A home ported head? why did u go that way in the quest for power, sometimes a money saving exercise costs more than u expect

OED666 · 17-10-2006, 09:03 PM

i used to drive my 13 second N/A 6 to work everyday... in traffic...

launching and traction comes with experience and technique. i launch at 4000rpm, on shitty cheap 17" tyes... $100 each.

mock cheats... nice suspension setup. very unstreetable. no front sway bar, agressive pinion angle, and gay looking height...

jonbays · 17-10-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OED666

i used to drive my 13 second N/A 6 to work everyday... in traffic...

launching and traction comes with experience and technique. i launch at 4000rpm, on shitty cheap 17" tyes... $100 each.

mock cheats... nice suspension setup. very unstreetable. no front sway bar, agressive pinion angle, and gay looking height...

gay looking height I will agree on cheats I wouldn't.
Its all in the set up for the qtr and technique combined. different set up different technique required. As far as cheating goes we can have another unopened debate about streetable too.

My technique is to baby the car no burnout lightly stall at 1600rpm and well sure 2.33 60's but I get to drive the car home on the tyres I drive to work with. Sure I am not even getting 14's but what the hell it was still fun. I even beat useless with the reaction time once.

OED666 · 17-10-2006, 11:46 PM

i definitely agree with the opened motor... even though from bonnet open to starting the car, the cam install in my car took 26 mins.

no sway bar, and their suspension setup isnt even steet legal. (i am only saying cheating on their suspension setup). If i could be bothered it would be interesting to see what mine would do on a similar setup

but i think the main point is, to get out there, have a crack, and walk away with a smile on your dial.

FS5 · 18-10-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OED666

but i think the main point is, to get out there, have a crack, and walk away with a smile on your dial.

thats what its ll about

Tri Power 289 · 18-10-2006, 10:20 AM

Interesting debate, all this opened vs unopened but I personally believe that it will be a long time before an UNOPENED N/A AU 6 runs a 13 but an OPENED 13 is just around the corner - and their's no reason why the car can't still be perfectly streetable.

I have said many times before, my car does 500ks a week and has run 14.3 in Exactly the same trim as I drive it every day. My wife can't tell any difference in driving the car now from when it was a 16 sec stocker.
Driving the car sedately, you wouldnt even know it wasnt stock apart from the occasional firm shift.
The key is in the drivetrain, but even going from 3.9s to 4.11s isn't going to get me into the 13s. I know this is where a cam at minimum will have to come into play and possibly some head work.
Thats why my Avatar says "at the crossroads" because I'm not sure which way to go next.

As for the knockers who's response to this whole hot 6 debate is "Buy a V8", lots of us have "been there, done that", for others it's "make the best of what you've got" and for some its about bragging rights.

All I say is "good luck to whoever does it first!" :Reverend:

Futura01 · 18-10-2006, 06:02 PM

well plenty of us trying as we can all see !!! but the problem is we are all stuck ?? and why are we all stuck because we all know whats worked so far and everybody's doing the same mods but nobody's willing to go that little extra for something new to try.
The first person to try something new will do it !!! why because most of the au i6 technology as revolved from jap 4's.
So why arnt we heading down that track to find something new to try on a 6.

xr8ute · 18-10-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Futura01

The first person to try something new will do it !!! why because most of the au i6 technology as revolved from jap 4's.

Agree that no-one will get there by following the same old $2 bolt-on mod routine i.e. snorkel, K&N, extractors, OTS cam....

Not sure what you mean by Jap 4 technology though? You mean because its overhead cam?

**Mechan1k** · 18-10-2006, 06:34 PM

The majority of JAP 4 cyl technology is forced induction ... and that's what makes them go fast. On the other hand there are a few N/A 4 cyls out there going quick ... what does help them though is they are light enough to do it (and they are usually stripped out to bare shell to do it as well.

Variable valve and cam timing is more aggressive than what is tried and used in the Falcon as well ... Ford's VCT is very tame compared to Honda's VTEC/Mitsu's MIVEC/Toyota's VVTi , etc.

From what i have seen ... for a decently quick I6 N/A ... you need to do much more than whatxr8ute mentioned ... and more than just a good cam and head package as well ... the rest of the engine needs work as well to compliment it ... blueprint and balance ... and a fair amount of dollars thrown in as well. It then becomes more of a track car and not a street vehicle.

poolkeeper · 18-10-2006, 06:35 PM

We need parts, underdrives, spacers etc etc, like the boss motor mods