Latest 5.4 plus 6 speed ZF box into EL

[Craney]

Am I just looking in all the wrong places or is it really hard to find an aftermarket motor builder that does a range of Ford V8s to different stages. I was on the C.O.M.E. site a while ago and while they have a chev/holden donk for every occasion their Ford selection was nowhere near as comprehensive. I googled every which way to similar results. So Ok, forget modded. How about a stock factory crate motor of the latest variety? And while we're at it, a 6 speed ZF box for good measure. Naturally we will need the computer, loom etc. Does anyone have any idea on the potential of this possibility? Will FoMoCo drop a big box of the above into my 8x4 garden trailer so I can go home and ponder the refit?
Or can anyone point me in the right direction for a 200-220 Kw updrade of the existing EL donk with an equal strengthening of the auto?
Cheers

[Racecraft]

You simply won't fit the BOSS engine in an EL without alot of customising to the k-frame, radiator support, inner guards etc..

200-220 upgrade? I am guessing you mean at the wheels? I'm no Wheezer expert but a warm 351 would have to go close

[Craney]

Cheers, that solves that I guess. At the rear wheels? No, probably not. Its just that the original donk made an enormous 165 so 200+ would be good and probably dooable if I could find someone reputable to do it

[old_mate]

200 engine kw aint huge, you can get that with a six if you follow the right path

easiest thing would be find a AU 5.0L and drop than in. GT40 heads, with about 200kw to start with. throw a cam in and a exhaust for good measure and it'll all be apples. BTR auto's can be modded to handle a bit of grunt but its costly. ZF 6 speeder would be a nightmare

[LUXO_8]

that "enormous 165kw" you talk of is only 35kw off the 200 mark..... 35 kw is way easy to find on a windsor....

heads, intake, roller rockers and exhaust would easily have you over 200kw at the engine, and if you use the factory AU XR8 heads and intake you can get there "fairly" inexpensively

worst case scnario, you'd be looking at about 2500 fitted for all that stuff, waaaaay way cheaper than resorting to a 5.4 / 6 speed auto conversion...

[Walkinshaw]

Thought about a stock 5.0 + powerdyne. very very easy, 170-200rwkw gaurenteed all in an afternoons work.

[Craney]

Thanks everyone. I guess I knew that the full retro fit could be a great drama, having to do bodywork has definently canned it. I'm guessing then that if 200kw is as achieveable as a powerdyne chip (it is a chip replacement, right?) then a methodical approach to all areas where huge money isnt required could be the go. So from what these guys have said I'm figuring alloy heads with roller rocker gear, maybe an aftermarket intake manifold full exhaust (twin system??) with highflow cats (big bucks?) and a chip. I'll keep looking around for a builder who inspires me with his enthusiasm and up front knowledge in the Melb., Geelong area. Oh yeah, one more thing, I've heard that the computers in Aussie Fords can not be remapped and that this is one of the reasons that large aftermarket crate engine builders dont do em. This true?

[Racecraft]

the Powerdyne is a supercharger not a chip

If you only want 200kw at the fly, headers, exhaust and manifold are about all you have to change

[Craney]

Aaahhh, a supercharger!! And one of those neat little turbo lookalike jobs that sits neatly under the bonnet, yes? I would love one of those but the first thing I wonder is if I would have a better sounding and responsive motor i.e. a more satisfying ride, if I spent similar money on heads ,cam, exhaust, intake?, and maybe a remap if poss. By the sound of Racecrafts last post I could probably wind up with well more than 200kw

[Aaron_EF8]

How much money do you want to spend? It isn't hard to spend a LOT on aftermarket Windsor parts if you're chasing every last horsepower. Everything is available for them in the US, check out places like www.summitracing.com or www.jegs.com for some parts, keeping in mind they're US prices.

COME won't have much of a Ford range, COME = Chev Off-road and Marine Engines.

[Craney]

Cheers Aaron, I dont want to spend the farm but I would want to realise the same kind of performance from my favorite Ford as I have experienced in poverty pack Commodores of a similar age. 235 Kw seems to be dead easy, and cheap, to get from a VN type engine. Computers are remapable and there seems to be a multitude of go fast parts from many sources, not to mention plug and play crate motors from mobs such as C.O.M.E. ( where the hell is F.O.M.E.)
The thing that has really annoyed me over the years is that not since I witnessed, as a production line worker, the last Aussie Cleveland, a 351, leave the line to be put in a base model Falcon, has Ford made high end performance available to everyone and, more importantly, the aftermarket Gurus. Ford America is probably to blame, but that's a mute point. The thing is that my choice of ride, a late 90's Ford Fairmont Ghia has in it a high tech, relatively clean, 5 litre V8 that produces... 165 Kw. Blah. And the fact that I cannot order a dead reliable and proven 250Kw crate motor from any one of half a dozen competing companies for my EL Ghia annoys me.
So here I am piecing together the bits and pieces of knowledge I am going to need to efficiently and reasonably economically put together a decent 220ish Kw motor.
I'll definently check those web sites but I'm already not happy about givivg my money away O/S for gear for my Aussie Ford.

[LUXO_8]

theres not much australian about the 5.0....... its a mustang motor..hence why you wont find much readily available aussie parts for them....

why develop stuff here when its been developed to death in the states

[!Gn|T|0n]

The 5.4 and the 6 speed would certainly be a dream combination in an EL Ghia. I've often joked about an LS1 conversion - but to be honest I'm happy not to have one in my car - simply because I'd want an LS2 in there now!

The supercharger option is cost effective in terms of $/kW and will result in the most drivable solution also. I've already posted a brief description of what I've done to my car in another thread tonight, but it seems relevant here if you're considering various ways to modify the 302 so I'll post it again to give you an idea of effort / output. I have managed to acquire many of the bits for my car cheaply and the home porting costs more time and effort than money... if I were to start from scratch again, I would consider the blower.

BPT single underdrive pulley
GT Snorkel
K&N panel filter
standard 55mm MAF
65mm throttle body from ED XR8 Sprint
Cobra intake manifold from ED XR8 Sprint (home ported and matched to felpro 1250 intake gasket)
Home ported E7 heads - again matched to 1250 gasket with bigger valves (1.84 intake, 1.54 exhaust)
1.7:1 FMS (crane) roller rockers
Crane 2031 cam
Pacemaker tri-y extractors.
full twin 2.5" system from cats to rear bumper with two straight through mufflers and x-pipe.

Standard 3.45:1 LSD
Standard fuel system
No chip.

Stuffed auto...
211rwhp

ET 14.544 @ 95.89MPH @ 15deg track temperature

now with the rebuilt auto I've managed a faster trap speed with a higher temperature
ET 14.756 @ 96.50MPH @ 30deg track temperature
No dyno run since the auto rebuild, I know it's pinging at WOT so there's more in it.

The twin exhaust I've added since the last 1/4 mile run I've done. The system on the car at that time was a press bent 2.5" single system with a single lukey straight through muffler.

Hope that helps.

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by elghia

And the fact that I cannot order a dead reliable and proven 250Kw crate motor from any one of half a dozen competing companies for my EL Ghia annoys me.

Bennett Racing in the states will sell you a 635hp 550ft/lb run on 91 octane crate motor, that will run like a stocker, and put you through the traps in 10's.
Fact is that in the states, everything you ever wanted is there....
Anything you buy here has come from there anyway.

[2kool4u]

why not put a BA XR6 motor and a zf gearbox in it??

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by 347Stroker

that will run like a stocker

Pro Stocker? :P

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Pro Stocker? :P

LOL, nah, its got a few cubes though....but its a windsor all the same....although, it has a little extra deck height....
Gotta love 351W Strokers, bulk HP and torque

[Craney]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Thought about a stock 5.0 + powerdyne. very very easy, 170-200rwkw gaurenteed all in an afternoons work.

Aahhh, I just realised something new. The rw in front of the kw. That sounds very impressive and almost too easy. But moving at least the stock flywheel power to the rear wheels all in an afternoons work is definently my kind of mod, particularly in the light of both Ignition's comments and my lack of garageness to really give home porting etc a decent go.

I guess the questions that first jump to mind is; What is going to break first and what should I do to prevent it, will I have to run 95 octane or better fuel to stop pinging given the high compression (or is pinging only relative to static or "swept" compression (I'm trying to think on my feet here a bit, so please bear with me)) and what other mods should I seriously consider to keep my engine happiest (bigger radiator, oil cooler etc.) Other than that I'm sold. I'll do a google and ring around for dealer info and hopefully be not too far out of the ball park when it comes to the price of a fit.

[Craney]

Originally Posted by 2kool4u

why not put a BA XR6 motor and a zf gearbox in it??

No real power reason I guess. I'm willing to spend a bob on the right exhaust for my 5.0 primarily so it sounds great. Apart from that it's the torque of a V8 that I've always liked, which should bring me to asking you knowledgeable bods about gearbox options, but thats probably a whole other thread. That ZF box on the BA XR6; is that one of these new 6 speed autos too, or is that a manual?

[EA2BA]

The BA/BF I6 does not fit under the EF/EL bonnet line for start (jetxr proved that).

ZF gearboxes are autos made in Germany.

If you fit a ZF to in your EL to a standard EF/EL motor (V8 or I6) make sure I am the first to know, would love one in my EA.

[!Gn|T|0n]

The other issue is the cost of the 6 speed box.

[Craney]

Yeah, the ZF is about 8 grand still in the box according to a post in the gearbox forum. so that is another thing out of the question. I rang a few wreckers out of interest but its a bit early and they wont be much cheaper than that anyway. At least for the next few years.

Side point: Hows this for Ford bizarreness. According to a mate in Cairns who owns a wrecking yard it is cheaper to replace a Ford explorer engine (V6) than it is to replace the valve timing gear. There is a chain at both ends of the engine! And only $2900 to repace the whole thing! Weird

So forget the ZF. How about going the other way and retroing a turbo 350 or 400. Same prob with the room do you all think? How about the bellhousing patterns? And if it did fit without lots of butchery could the electronic and otherwise interaction between the ELs currant box and motor be ignored or modified enough to run the older box???

[Aaron_EF8]

Originally Posted by elghia

And the fact that I cannot order a dead reliable and proven 250Kw crate motor from any one of half a dozen competing companies for my EL Ghia annoys me.

You can order crate motors from plenty of places, have a look in almost any Ford magazine, there's pages of crate 302W engines of various tune.

Originally Posted by elghia

235 Kw seems to be dead easy, and cheap, to get from a VN type engine.

It's easy to get from a Falcon too, it just costs a bit. Theres heaps of heads, cams, manifolds etc available, they pretty much all come from the US, because there's millions of Windsors there, compared to a few thousand here. Clevelands were only built in the US for 4-5 years compared to 12 here.

[gozza]

Originally Posted by elghia

Side point: Hows this for Ford bizarreness. According to a mate in Cairns who owns a wrecking yard it is cheaper to replace a Ford explorer engine (V6) than it is to replace the valve timing gear. There is a chain at both ends of the engine! And only $2900 to repace the whole thing! Weird

ive heard about the timing chains...... breaking quickly too