**GM preparing for bankruptcy**

[gtfpv]

this thread is shyte . i didnt know there was so many chiodren on this forum , everyone here is self interested and speaking shyte . i remember those attitudes in the quadrangle in year 10.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

this thread is shyte . i didnt know there was so many chiodren on this forum , everyone here is self interested and speaking shyte . i remember those attitudes in the quadrangle in year 10.

I know you are, you said you are but whaaaat aammmmmmm iiiiiiii???

[robertjp]

GM ordered to prepare for bankruptcy

Anyone seen this and wonder how wheels / carsguide will react, yeah we know this is a golden opportunity for GMH.

Robert.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by robertjp

GM ordered to prepare for bankruptcy

Anyone seen this and wonder how wheels / carsguide will react, yeah we know this is a golden opportunity for GMH.

Robert.

They might have to change their bias from Holden to Ford!

[robjh80]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

They might have to change their bias from Holden to Ford!

That'll never happen .... Holden to Daewoo maybe yea! ..

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by robjh80

That'll never happen .... Holden to Daewoo maybe yea! ..

Whats the difference??
Same thing !!...

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Whats the difference??
Same thing !!...

They're all screwed!

[bigdude1011]

Originally Posted by robjh80

Holden to Daewoo maybe yea! ..

If they exist... Though I would expect it to move across to Toyota

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by robertjp

Anyone seen this and wonder how wheels / carsguide will react, yeah we know this is a golden opportunity for GMH.

Robert.

It would go like this.

"Holden's parent company has moved to secure it future today by signing an agreement with the banks. The downturn in economy has ment that sales are low, and that there is fear of job losses through out.

Ford have made no similer plans as of yet, and the falcon struggled to sell over 3000 units last month."

[4Vman]

The end is near.....

[cool65]

Someone predicting no more holden with ford just behind

Crisis means curtains for Holden: expert

Australia's car industry will not survive the economic recession, and Holden will probably be the first to go, an industry expert says.

Editor of the car buyers Dog & Lemon Guide, Clive Matthew-Wilson, said the Australian car manufacturer is poised to shut down for good because it can no longer compete in the global market.

Holden signalled the beginning of the end when it recently halved production at its South Australian plant, he said.

In early April the company announced that from May 4 it will reduce production at its Adelaide plant from about 600 vehicles a day to 310, citing reduced demand in domestic and export markets.

"Australia's car factories are losing money on every vehicle they make," Mr Matthew-Wilson said in a statement.

"No amount of incentives from the state and federal governments can solve this basic problem.

"It's not a matter of whether they close down, but when they close down."

He said Holden will be the first to go, followed by Ford and then Toyota.Crisis means curtains for Holden: expert

[BigAL_250]

How about we see the rest of that article:

Straight back to the normal dribble, media in this country just can't accept that for the first time in decades Ford is doing better (relatively) than it's red counterpart.

-----------------------------------------
"People falsely believe that Ford is doing okay. That's not true," he said.

"American Ford's sales are down 43 per cent in the first quarter of this year.

"Ford is losing billions just like GM; it's just that Ford arranged private sector finance before the recession, so it's not quite so obvious how serious things are."

Amid the financial turmoil, the big three US car makers - Ford, Chrysler and Holden owner General Motors - have asked the US government for a loan guarantee of $US25 billion ($37.51 billion). [Ahh... what the, isn't this the loan Ford didn't take]

Earlier this year Toyota, the world's No.1 car maker and Australian market leader, accepted a $35 million federal government grant to build a hybrid version of its four-cylinder Camry sedan in Melbourne from 2010.

But Mr Matthew-Wilson said the money is a waste.

"Globally, there's a glut of new cars at bargain prices, yet Australia, which produces a small number of high cost cars, is trying to compete with countries like China, which produces ten million cars a year and pays its car workers as little as one dollar per hour.

"The Australian government can throw $6 billion or $600 billion at these car plants, but they still won't be economically feasible," he said.

"Australia's car plants are losing money faster than a drunk at a casino and there's no feasible way of turning this around.

"The Australian car industry can re-focus on small cars, green cars, blue cars or red cars. None of this will make the slightest difference."

Mr Matthew-Wilson believes the government money would have been better spent by giving it to the affected car workers.
------------------------------------------------

[Scott]

Originally Posted by bigal_250

"People falsely believe that Ford is doing okay. That's not true," he said."

I don't think too many people think Ford are doing ok - much less people at Ford. I certainly think that if Ford can hang on, they are better placed than the others though.

[banarcus]

There wont be a little saviour car for Holden. They need the cash from GM but of course the american taxpayer will not let them have it to prop up a factory supplying a tiny market. Within the next 2 weeks, Holden will be put up for sale. Sad times indeed.

[Ohio XB]

The 2011 next gen Focus is scheduled to be built and go on sale in the US next year, possibly May-August span I would presume.


As for how Ford is doing......providing they can hang on until the upswing in the market, just like all the other manufacturers are waiting for, they are going to kick ***.

Evidence of confidence in this is all the bondholders that happily took Ford stock and cash at 40 cents on the dollar in trade for debt. Ford had more takers than they wanted and closed the deal in 2 weeks.

Evidently these people (business professionals) feel they are going to get a good return on the Ford stock (which is up 400% since December).

Add to that parity with transplant companies on labor costs, removing $10 billion in debt, the most 5 star safety rated vehicles in the US, the most "recommended buys" by Consumer Reports (70%), quality equal to or better than Toyota and Honda, new products across 80% of the product line, new styling, new engines with better fuel economy and emissions, rave reviews from automotive journalists, praise among Americans for not taking a government loan.....and MORE!!! Ford is poised. Ford is ready and equipped. Ford is at the top of their game like never before.

This is not the company I hired into, this is much, much better!


Steve

[imugli]

Any indications on US sales so far this month Steve?

Word was they saw a bottoming in March - has this proven true so far?

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by imugli

Any indications on US sales so far this month Steve?

Word was they saw a bottoming in March - has this proven true so far?

I'll see what I can find, but we are only 1/2 way into April. The Ford Advantage Plan should be boosting sales though.


Steve

[Phyber]

Makes me wanna buy Ford stocks! I like your take on things Steve. Good name too, I oughta know hahaha.

Feels good to drive a Ford, but even better now.

[Unco]

sorry, but are you coming here to ask for trading advice?

and you're asking if you should invest in Ford stocks?

Seriously, what do you think?

and on that note. considering all of the above (the fact that you're coming to a public forum testing for trading advice). how do you think your trading is going to go?

[Phyber]

I'm not buying any stocks at all don't worry! Not much of a gambler myself, and the idea of all your money going *poof* overnight doesn't sit well with me. Just giving props to a positive comment is all

[Wally]

Isn't the newest kid in the socialist block going to swap debt for equity in GM? The idea being the FunkyNewGM would be owned by current bond holders, unions and the US Govt while CrustyOldGM would go down along with it's non performing lines and recalcitrant unsecured creditors.

Another bold move by Chairman Obama the Federated Peoples Republic of America citizenry.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Wally

Isn't the newest kid in the socialist block going to swap debt for equity in GM? The idea being the FunkyNewGM would be owned by current bond holders, unions and the US Govt while CrustyOldGM would go down along with it's non performing lines and recalcitrant unsecured creditors.

Another bold move by Chairman Obama the Federated Peoples Republic of America citizenry.

Yep. You can read about it here

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Wally

Isn't the newest kid in the socialist block going to swap debt for equity in GM? The idea being the FunkyNewGM would be owned by current bond holders, unions and the US Govt while CrustyOldGM would go down along with it's non performing lines and recalcitrant unsecured creditors.

Another bold move by Chairman Obama the Federated Peoples Republic of America citizenry.

And the alternative is what........... Mmmmmmm ?

Oh yeah.....you and you family are not affected by this debacle.....

Stop with the political rubbish and understand what is going on here..

[Wally]

I understand more than you obviously. I actually own a business and employ many people...profitably. I don't get handouts, I fight the good fight everyday.... everyday, 365 days a years for the last 30 odd years. I make sure I pay ny people very well, I take an interest in the employees families, I donate probably as much as you earn in a year to charity, I mentor young engineers and apprentices. I'm a Godammned legend in my own mind.

The alternative you are asking about is to let the company run it's course, just like any other business has to. The heartache of failure, the fear of debt, the loyalty to employees, these are all weights that responsible business owners carry. Of course I'm affected, but I'm not myopic.

What do you bring to the table that makes you so cocksure you know who I am and what I know? Tell us how you are a success in business and all things economic that gives you a unique insight into why a foreign govt should nationalise it's industry... Germany 1934? Your occupation certainly doesn't point to anything that resembles the qualifications necessary to make judgements about other members, so why do you think you have the right to lambast others?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Wally

I understand more than you obviously. I actually own a business and employ many people...profitably. I don't get handouts, I fight the good fight everyday.... everyday, 365 days a years for the last 30 odd years. I make sure I pay ny people very well, I take an interest in the employees families, I donate probably as much as you earn in a year to charity, I mentor young engineers and apprentices. I'm a Godammned legend in my own mind.

The alternative you are asking about is to let the company run it's course, just like any other business has to. The heartache of failure, the fear of debt, the loyalty to employees, these are all weights that responsible business owners carry. Of course I'm affected, but I'm not myopic.

What do you bring to the table that makes you so cocksure you know who I am and what I know? Tell us how you are a success in business and all things economic that gives you a unique insight into why a foreign govt should nationalise it's industry... Germany 1934? Your occupation certainly doesn't point to anything that resembles the qualifications necessary to make judgements about other members, so why do you think you have the right to lambast others?

Ah the good old I'm a hero/the world would be far worse off without me capitalist ego.

Reality check:

1. You perks/benefits of owning a business outweigh anything with the word handout in it.

2. Instead of boasting blind sums why don't we look at the percentage of your income you donate rather than the amount. And if you weren't blessed with all this income I doubt you'd be donating in the first place.

3. The reason those charities don't have money in the first place is because capitalists have a monopoly on the market and take advantage of it, hoard all the money which results in a majority suffering for the minority.
An example of this would be the oil companies, the price for petrol is ridiculously steep for the average family, causes lots of grief/stress, all because someone wants to have a diamond coated Mercedes Benz.

No matter how ruthless you are, you supply jobs and donate to charity and once that happens you're a hero.

I'll probably get executed for treason tomorrow, note however that government decision will be heavily influenced by some capitalist.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Wally

What do you bring to the table that makes you so cocksure you know who I am and what I know? Tell us how you are a success in business and all things economic that gives you a unique insight into why a foreign govt should nationalise it's industry... Germany 1934?

Germany 1934 ? Mate, take a deep breath. Bad day at work Hey ?

My Occupation ?

Over 20 years in Manufacturing, including quite a few stints in Europe and North America. I'm doing Ok and I know the manufacturing business quite well :

Back on topic...

GM are now operating on emergency funding from the US Government, and many thousands of 'workers' both here (Holden) and in the US, are relying on the 'right' decisions being made from here on !

If it takes the US Government to 'drive' the change at GM, so be it. It seems those that have been 'running the show' up until now have been 'hoping' rather than planning. There are many families whose futures rely on bringing this company back from the brink.

It's a shame Wally that many of these people (workers) aren't as smart and succesful as you.

[Laminge]

Back on topic, you amuse me no longer

[Deech]

Acknowledged.

If GM splits itself and discards it's non-profitable units, which ones are actually making a profit?

If GM as a complete entity is running at massive losses, I'm confused how some brands are running at a profit, but are dragged down by the other ones if costs are shared.

As an example to show what I mean, the Pontiac G8 is basically a rebadged LHD VE. Let's assume Holden spent $1B Au on R&D costs of the Commodore, and Pontiac only spend $50 million to change the badges, bonnet and grille. If both intend to recover their costs by a markup in the retail price of the car, Pontiac has to shift fewer units to break even on the project. Now, let's assume that Pontiac is running at a profit, the G8 is still selling in the US, and Holden hasn't made back their development budget yet, and is still at a loss. In that case, ditching the unprofitable Holden for the profitable Pontiac wouldn't work, as Pontiac must now develop their own car for the replacement model from scratch.

See what I mean? If GM US is really one big, engine-sharing, platform-swapping entity trading under many different marques, it's kind of hard for one outlet to be profitable, and the others not.

Unless they're seperating them into say, GM South Korea being profitable, but GM US is a loss....

That's really scary

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by Deech

Acknowledged.

If GM splits itself and discards it's non-profitable units, which ones are actually making a profit?

If GM as a complete entity is running at massive losses, I'm confused how some brands are running at a profit, but are dragged down by the other ones if costs are shared.

As an example to show what I mean, the Pontiac G8 is basically a rebadged LHD VE. Let's assume Holden spent $1B Au on R&D costs of the Commodore, and Pontiac only spend $50 million to change the badges, bonnet and grille. If both intend to recover their costs by a markup in the retail price of the car, Pontiac has to shift fewer units to break even on the project. Now, let's assume that Pontiac is running at a profit, the G8 is still selling in the US, and Holden hasn't made back their development budget yet, and is still at a loss. In that case, ditching the unprofitable Holden for the profitable Pontiac wouldn't work, as Pontiac must now develop their own car for the replacement model from scratch.

See what I mean? If GM US is really one big, engine-sharing, platform-swapping entity trading under many different marques, it's kind of hard for one outlet to be profitable, and the others not.

Unless they're seperating them into say, GM South Korea being profitable, but GM US is a loss....

That's really scary

What would probably happen in a situation like this would be

1: A new entity is created to run the "new" GM.
2: The said entity buys all the "good" assets off GM
3: New entity trades on

4: Old GM is left with a large amount of liabilities, few assets and no prospect of recovery. Assets are sold off and a distribution made to creditors


Its very common for some divisions of a business to run at a loss and other at a profit. The problem GM have is that too many are running at too high a loss

[Deech]

Originally Posted by Piotr

Its very common for some divisions of a business to run at a loss and other at a profit. The problem GM have is that too many are running at too high a loss

Yeah, I get that. The dealership sells cars for no profit/loss, and recovers money at routine services for example, Toyota style. Sony sells consoles at a loss, and makes it back through much lower unit production costs of games, or at least that's how it was supposed to have been with the PS3 in the early days.

But I don't see how they can sell the same product at both departments, run the same line of engines etc, and one profits and the other one loses.

Also, I still would like to know which marques are profitable, and whether profitability includes future earning potential. Say, Chevrolet may be running at a loss right now selling the wrong cars while Rome burns, but it's got the heritage, so if bought by creditors and turned around, it'd be easier to attract people to the 'new' Chev, than the new Daewoo.