US Ford and Global RWD

Ohio XB · 28-01-2009, 05:55 AM

This questions was asked in a closed thread....

Quote:

One interesting thing I noticed it said was that they were going to use the Falcon platform for RWD Fords. Since when did they decide to use the Aussie platform? I thought Ford America were going to make their own and make us use theirs.

Fact - Ford has at least one, probably several, Aussie Falcons in Dearborn.

One could speculate it was for engineers to drive what they see in CAD drawings from Australia to be able to experience the end result. With the quality reputation of the Falcon and the Falcon having been shipped to Dearborn it would seem to be clear that the global RWD program was Falcon based. However, as someone mentioned, the world changed.

Right now two of the biggest concerns at Ford are fuel mileage and reduced emissions. Lighter, front wheel drive cars and smaller engines are the quickest way to achieve these results. It is only reasonable that the global RWD idea be shelved for now.

As others have mentioned, replacing the Falcon with a Taurus involves some facets that do not immediately come to mind. One of them is the Mustang syndrome. The Mustang customers would not accept the front wheel drive replacement Ford had slated for it so the Mustang remained a RWD. The Falcon shares the same kind of enthusiasm. This, among other logistics, would be the reasons that the Taurus to replace the Falcon would have to be an absolute slam-dunk obvious jump to make, and from more than one or 5 angles.

The Taurus is not a Mondeo. It is derived from a Volvo chassis originally but has gone through a couple re-engineering stages. The next gen US Fusion and Mondeo will be built on the same platform, so no, the Taurus is not basically a Mondeo.

There will be an AWD Taurus. There will be a Taurus SHO. There will be a Turbo V6 (EcoBoost) engine in the Taurus. This is rated about 350 HP.

Steve

brm-xr6 · 28-01-2009, 08:42 AM

very intersting .

JPFS1 · 28-01-2009, 09:59 AM

Ohio

I can tell you that a Falcon based Global RWD platform isn't the reason for Aussie Falcons being shipped to Dearborn. Obviously the execs would have gone over them in some detail for GRWD consideration when it was on the table etc, but that isn't the primary reason.

I agree with your other statements about Taurus. While there is NO GRWD, it actually cements the future of an Australian based and developed Falcon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

This questions was asked in a closed thread....

Fact - Ford has at least one, probably several, Aussie Falcons in Dearborn.

One could speculate it was for engineers to drive what they see in CAD drawings from Australia to be able to experience the end result. With the quality reputation of the Falcon and the Falcon having been shipped to Dearborn it would seem to be clear that the global RWD program was Falcon based. However, as someone mentioned, the world changed.

Right now two of the biggest concerns at Ford are fuel mileage and reduced emissions. Lighter, front wheel drive cars and smaller engines are the quickest way to achieve these results. It is only reasonable that the global RWD idea be shelved for now.

As others have mentioned, replacing the Falcon with a Taurus involves some facets that do not immediately come to mind. One of them is the Mustang syndrome. The Mustang customers would not accept the front wheel drive replacement Ford had slated for it so the Mustang remained a RWD. The Falcon shares the same kind of enthusiasm. This, among other logistics, would be the reasons that the Taurus to replace the Falcon would have to be an absolute slam-dunk obvious jump to make, and from more than one or 5 angles.

The Taurus is not a Mondeo. It is derived from a Volvo chassis originally but has gone through a couple re-engineering stages. The next gen US Fusion and Mondeo will be built on the same platform, so no, the Taurus is not basically a Mondeo.

There will be an AWD Taurus. There will be a Taurus SHO. There will be a Turbo V6 (EcoBoost) engine in the Taurus. This is rated about 350 HP.

Steve

**Polyal** · 28-01-2009, 10:04 AM

There are some Falcons in the US for various reasons, most being testing facilities that FoA dont have here (or did at the time).

Road_Warrior · 28-01-2009, 11:05 AM

Crash and engineering tests, production validation etc...there was a pic posted here before the FG was released of a white FG XR being unpacked from a shipping container in Detroit...

Falc'man · 28-01-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Ohio

I can tell you that a Falcon based Global RWD platform isn't the reason for Aussie Falcons being shipped to Dearborn. Obviously the execs would have gone over them in some detail for GRWD consideration when it was on the table etc, but that isn't the primary reason.

I agree with your other statements about Taurus. While there is NO GRWD, it actually cements the future of an Australian based and developed Falcon.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Isn't the coyote supposed to be in the crate? :P

vbomber · 28-01-2009, 05:23 PM

Didn't Mullay want to get a G6E Turbo sent over so he could use it?

irlewy86 · 28-01-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbomber

Didn't Mullay want to get a G6E Turbo sent over so he could use it?

No, there was a press release stating how impressed he was with it and he compared the car to his Lexus (Boeing company car) he might have also stated that he wanted as his car but I think that was just speculation based on his comments.

The biggest hurdle to GRWD is the new CAFE standards in the US. The G8 is only available in Auto (with DOD) because the manual would tip it over into the no-mans land and add a $2000 tax.

XR6_190 · 28-01-2009, 06:04 PM

This is the way I too have been seeing this, after all how much longer can the ancient Crown Victoria/ Grand Marquis last?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbomber

Didn't Mullay want to get a G6E Turbo sent over so he could use it?

I remember hearing this too.

irlewy86 · 28-01-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_190

This is the way I too have been seeing this, after all how much longer can the ancient Crown Victoria/ Grand Marquis last?

12 months. Then it is gone.

Bossxr8 · 28-01-2009, 08:18 PM

Detroit always have a fleet of Ford vehicles from all over the globe for evaluation, its nothing new.

But with global RWD gone the Falcon platform is now the best RWD option Ford have. Because of that it opens up options for a possible platform share with Mustang, or a long wheelbase Falcon to replace Crown Vic, Town Car and Grand Marquis. Would also allow the return of Fairlane.

I take the cutting of Global RWD as a positive for FoA, and not a negative.

ivorya · 28-01-2009, 08:22 PM

These CAFE emission/economy regulations that are coming into play, what are the main points with economy and emissions? ie/how many L/100km does say the Falcon have to get to meet these requirements

Bossxr8 · 28-01-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

These CAFE emission/economy regulations that are coming into play, what are the main points with economy and emissions? ie/how many L/100km does say the Falcon have to get to meet these requirements

The average is 35 mpg. Thats averaged out over the whole range though, so it doesn't matter if you have large vehicles that go over the average, as long as you have a range of small cars that go under, and with the Fiesta and new Focus going to the US Ford are covering that angle, as well as their hybrids.

Doesn't matter anyway I don't think, the Falcon will probably never go to the US, the middle east is the area FoA want, the Crown Vic sells ok over there I think.

JPFS1 · 28-01-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Isn't the coyote supposed to be in the crate? :P

not if we build it here... ;)

JPFS1 · 28-01-2009, 11:03 PM

correct...

2010 CAFE calls for ~8.5L/100k's, 2020 calls for ~6.5L/100.

As you said, it's the corporate average across the fleet so it won't matter, particularly when the performance orientated models would be of low volume compared to the major focus of small economical cars. So providing they can build up some decent CAFE credits by releasing vehicles that can beat CAFE, then who cares if they have a pool of civil penalties.

Companies already pay hundreds of millions in penalties, obviously the aim is to reduce these costs in today's environment, but it won't be at the expense of Fords future performance cars ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The average is 35 mpg. Thats averaged out over the whole range though, so it doesn't matter if you have large vehicles that go over the average, as long as you have a range of small cars that go under, and with the Fiesta and new Focus going to the US Ford are covering that angle, as well as their hybrids.

Doesn't matter anyway I don't think, the Falcon will probably never go to the US, the middle east is the area FoA want, the Crown Vic sells ok over there I think.

Ohio XB · 29-01-2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Crash and engineering tests, production validation etc...there was a pic posted here before the FG was released of a white FG XR being unpacked from a shipping container in Detroit...

I remember that picture and article. I also remember that was the first time I ever heard of an Aussie Falcon being in Dearborn, but then again you guys would know better than I what kind of testing facilities FoA has.

JPFS1, is this testing the reason you understand for the Falcon being in Dearborn?

The only reason the Crown Vic is still around is for Police and Taxi use. Since gasoline shot up so high though I would imagine Crown Vic taxi purchases have dropped. Ford now markets Hybrid Escapes for taxi use.

Steve

Swordsman88 · 29-01-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I remember that picture and article. I also remember that was the first time I ever heard of an Aussie Falcon being in Dearborn, but then again you guys would know better than I what kind of testing facilities FoA has.

JPFS1, is this testing the reason you understand for the Falcon being in Dearborn?

The only reason the Crown Vic is still around is for Police and Taxi use. Since gasoline shot up so high though I would imagine Crown Vic taxi purchases have dropped. Ford now markets Hybrid Escapes for taxi use.

Steve

I have a question for you Steve.

With the crown vic stopping production in the near future, what is Ford's plan to keep police/taxi sales in the states? I thought Ford were the last of the large RWD cars, hence the police sales. Are they going to buy the taurus now for this purpose?

Also, isn't the crown vic exported from the states to the mid east....is Ford planning on launching the taurus and other cars there to replace the RWD cars. Surely letting Ford Aus send falcons over there would make more sense (like holden with the commodore) especially if the mid east countries like their RWD...

Ohio XB · 29-01-2009, 06:01 AM

Swordsman88, sorry, but I am at a disadvantage about shipments of the CV to the middle east. I know nothing about it.

As far as US Police sales, I don't know what Ford's stratedgy is going to be.

Many Police forces get the Crown Vic's because they have older cars that they can use for parts to save on replacement parts for the newer cars. Also, it is the largest car available and with a proven record. Also, the cages, computer brackets, and all other modifications that make a Police car viable can just be removed from the old cars and bolted into the new cars.

When Police Forces go to another type of vehicle for their cars they have to have completely new hardware to equip the cars with computers, cages, hard rear seats, and so on and it is quite an outlay. Dodge Chargers and Chevrolet Impalas are being used as Police cars now. They don't have as much interior room and are a tight fit for the more "experienced" officers that have a bit of extra officer around the waist, what with all the computers, radios, and everything else that takes up room in the front seat. The Chargers are enjoyed for making traffic stops because they accelerate quickly and stop on a dime, but they go through a LOT of brakes. This is info I was told by a veteran officer of about 32 years.

What Ford will do about Police vehicles after the demise of the CV I don't know. Ford is getting away from fleet and rental car fleet sales in order to increase the resale value of their cars. Having no Police fleet sales may be a part of that, but I really have no clue.

Steve

Ohio XB · 29-01-2009, 08:04 AM

Accidental double post.

UKXR8 · 29-01-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Also, isn't the crown vic exported from the states to the mid east....is Ford planning on launching the taurus and other cars there to replace the RWD cars. Surely letting Ford Aus send falcons over there would make more sense (like holden with the commodore) especially if the mid east countries like their RWD...

Hi Swordsman, I've spent a fair bit of time out in the middle east over the last few years (lucky me, NOT) and I have yet to see a Crown Victoria. Not that I've been to every country out there though.
Loads of Chev badged Commodores though, lots of them serving as cop cars. Most of the taxis are Corollas or something similar

Bossxr8 · 30-01-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

not if we build it here... ;)

I don't get that though, wouldn't it be cheaper just to bring it in in a crate? Why go to the effort of assembling it yourself?

Falc'man · 22-07-2009, 01:45 AM

As we may have heard or read, Ford expect a profit in 2011. The project which is at the top of their list when/if that comes to fruition will be GRWD. Which is good news, and, hopefully a pie in the face to the unedumecated journo(s) who said it was dead.

I sometimes wonder at the things you say and do, JP... that cheeky remark was months before Rod announced (and surprised us) with it.

JPFS1 · 22-07-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I sometimes wonder at the things you say and do, JP... that cheeky remark was months before Rod announced (and surprised us) with it.

I just call it a lucky guess.

Is the news about Taurus/Mondeo public yet? I'm sure it is, not officially obviously, but it's hit the net?

Road_Warrior · 22-07-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I just call it a lucky guess.

Is the news about Taurus/Mondeo public yet? I'm sure it is, not officially obviously, but it's hit the net?

As in, the shared platform? I've read about that in places...

Swordsman88 · 22-07-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

As in, the shared platform? I've read about that in places...

Well its been rumoured for ages...i think its inevitable. Particularly if they sell off volvo (which is happening sooner rather than later), because they will have alot less platforms to share the mondeo with. Have to get economies of scale somehow.

imugli · 22-07-2009, 01:33 PM

Is it at all possible that Ford HQ will wait and see what Ford Oz do with the next develpoment of our RWD and if they CAN drop a 3.7l in it and make CAFE compliant in order to have a big, RWD Lincoln flagship / Crown Vic and Mustang replacement they'll do that?

I know I've said that I think Falc will end up getting replaced by AWD Taurus, but is this at all possible?

Road_Warrior · 22-07-2009, 03:38 PM

Well one of two things will happen here. We know that the Ford Fusion and Mondeo are to share a common platform and now there is talk of Taurus joining them.

1) Taurus will become smaller; or

2) Fusion/Mondeo will become larger (same size as Taurus)

Number 1 would be good for the Falcon, number 2 wont be.

phillyc · 22-07-2009, 09:25 PM

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/12/r...atform-with-f/

According to The Detroit News, Ford is likely to move Taurus to a common platform shared with the Fusion and Mondeo. The combining of the Fusion and Mondeo has been planned for some time already and the Taurus will probably use a longer (and perhaps wider) variant of the same C/D segment architecture.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-gm-...platforms.html

Ford’s recently launched Taurus stands as the marque’s largest sedan offering, but the next-generation Taurus will likely move down in size. Although it will still be larger than the mid-size Focus, the next Taurus will shrink a bit as it moves to Ford’s next-generation global C/D platform, according to The Detroit News.

dbirdy · 22-07-2009, 09:38 PM

Lets all hope that Ford can produce a world unique vehicle to export!

**Dave R** · 22-07-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imugli

Is it at all possible that Ford HQ will wait and see what Ford Oz do with the next develpoment of our RWD and if they CAN drop a 3.7l in it and make CAFE compliant in order to have a big, RWD Lincoln flagship / Crown Vic and Mustang replacement they'll do that?

I know I've said that I think Falc will end up getting replaced by AWD Taurus, but is this at all possible?

Ford HQ won't be the ones waiting to see what Ford Aus does, it will be the other way around. If Ford North America were to have an exported Falcon, the car would need to be built with an allowance for LHD from the get go.