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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 808
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Hi people,
If you look at the Australian icon/classic greatest model in our motoring history, there is one thing that has been the yardstick for all of them. I am talking the big ‘3’ Bathurst specials that started back in the sixties (GT, PACER, GTS, RT, XU1, etc), and continued with the Brock HDT cars and finally HSV with the 1992 Group A). Take a look at the obscene prices that these cars are fetching today, which all have a ‘Factory’ Bathurst connection. What car since the 1993 V8 supercar formula was introduced, has a showroom connection, apart from the badge and the body shape? The question I got for you is, if a HO 1, 2 or 3 asking price is over $500,000, or a GTS Bathurst 327/350 asking price is $300,000, E49 and XU1 over $100,000 (maybe more?), can you see any HSV since the Group A, or any FPV command the obscene amounts of the true Bathurst specials in the future?
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BMW 125I Kia Seltos Suzuki SV650 FG XR6 (son) |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cattai, Sydney
Posts: 7,701
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i really cant see any HSV's reaching absurd prices in the future, or if they do it would have to be the VT specials ie SV99, SV300, GTS 300 along with the W427, GTS-R as they are fairly rare cars and were pretty big when they came out..
anything else thats come out is just ordinary, the only FPV's that may reach high prices could be maybe the BFII GT's with the 302kw engine, the Cobra's and R-specced cars other then very early builds and prototypes
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1992 EBII Fairmont Ghia 4.0l <---Click for the Gallery! Insta@mooneye_ghia White on bright red smoothies with thick whitewalls. Cruising around to some rockabilly |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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If I was given $1 for every post on this topic in recent times I'd be able to buy a Phase 3.
I think we're all over it ...the economic theories of of supply and demand will dictate future values and I think we have all previously agreed that when/if todays FPV's/HSV's fall into the collectors category we'll all be too old to care. A 30 year timespan usually sees values start to rise again , provided of course the car is in good nick and, more importantly, is rare.
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2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
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#4 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,565
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I cant see any FPV's really being worth much later on, not like the older classics.
I think F6's will do ok when the I6T is eventually ditched, hopefuly Ford does a nice "last model" effort for the F6 when the time comes. Just make a factory weapon, WGAF about what the V8 equivalent is making at the time. But from Holdens P.O.V the GTS-R is special, same with the VN Group A. Id never want to own one but they are icons in a sense. From Ford, well maybe the ED Sprint, EB GT, EL GT.....thats about it.
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cattai, Sydney
Posts: 7,701
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not too sure about the F6's in 30 years.. they'll probably all be thrashed(then again all the GT's probably were too lol) and there's just so many of them. The turbo barra is a ground breaking motor but there hasn't been a special model made - even the Boss's got the Cobra.
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1992 EBII Fairmont Ghia 4.0l <---Click for the Gallery! Insta@mooneye_ghia White on bright red smoothies with thick whitewalls. Cruising around to some rockabilly |
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#6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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Quote:
Well nobody thought the older classics would be worth anywhere near what they are today, so thats a huge call
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2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 808
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what i find amusing, is during the 80's any charger (E49 excepted), V8 falcons GT excepted), monaro or torana (A9X excepted),was in the 'under 3000.00' section of the motoring adds. try getting one thats not even a bathurst special now.
i would like a current GT for 6 days of the week, and one of the old classics (any of the big 3), for sundays only...
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#8 | |||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,565
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Quote:
I didn't mean to offend, but they just dont have the halo of the older ones, there is no mystic about them. Great cars, ill take any FPV in the range, but nothing like the older ones which has more to do about history, rules and regs etc.
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#9 | ||
5lt fairmont ghia
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: brisbane
Posts: 76
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i think its just to hard to tell, i mean look around today and you will see all the young people buying VL calais of upwards of $7000, and if its a turbo ur looking at an easy $ 10 000, anyone who pays it is insane but i have seen it happen. and to buy an AU fairmont V8 is still like $12 000, i use to have a HSV VQ statesman build 49 of 89 and i only paid like $6500 for that. i think it swings the way of how big of a demand there is for a particular car.
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this generation of car enthusiasts didnt invent the art of 'cruising' , 'cutting bog laps' , 'racing' and 'burnouts'. its funny how the past generation or two stardted it and now are the ones handing out the fines AU II FAIMONT GHIA " TIX35" 5.0lt |
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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Another factor in recent times which has contributed to the spiralling values of the late 60's and 70's classics is the cashed up retiring baby boomer population wanting to relive their childhood by buying these vehicles which they may have owned when they were young. Rumour has it that this phenomenen has now run its course so consequently the over inflated values will soon adjust to more realistic levels. If the economic crises continues, or worsens, then that decline will happen quite rapidly.
Should the same thing happen withGen Y's in 25-30 years time, then you can expect Subaru WRX's to be in huge demand in the year 2030...not your typical Australian family sedan built in 2005...Teenagers today don't rate Aussie 6/8 cylinder cars and consign them to the "uncool" basket so who will be buying them in 30 years time? Certainly not todays youth thats for sure, and they're gonna have all their inherited wealth in their back pocket at their disposal.....So, buy 10 WRX's now and store them for 30 years as part of your super fund Fev
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2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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Quote:
No offence taken champ...All good ![]()
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2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
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#12 | ||
Racing improves the breed
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 3,982
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Todays road car offerings from Ford and Holden share nothing with the V8 Supercars thats the problem. Monaro's, GT Falcons, XU1's and E38/39 Chargers were all built in limited numbers to win Bathurst. I personally cant see any offerings from HSV or FPV being worth hideous amounts of money in 30 years because there are so many of them and they share nothing with today's racing cars
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1970 Mini Cooper S Historic Group Nc Touring car 1964 Mini Cooper S Historic Group Nb Touring car 2024 Subaru Outback Touring XT Victorian Hill Climb Championship |
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#13 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,565
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Ah bugger did forget one modern Ford that eventually will appreciate IMO. T3.
Why? Unique engine, limited numbers (reason why its limited doesn't really matter) and unique styling with a brand that has a strong name (Tickford). Now lets watch the thread die..LOL
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#14 | |||
Weezland
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney,workshop mod
Posts: 7,216
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Quote:
Lets not forget that for the most part these old bathurst models have never really dropped in value from the the time they were new, while they may not have climbed as quickly in the past as of late, they were still worth more than their original sale price from virtually the day they were driven off the lot.. |
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cattai, Sydney
Posts: 7,701
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Quote:
![]() maybe i should try my hand with VRX magnas too? :P
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1992 EBII Fairmont Ghia 4.0l <---Click for the Gallery! Insta@mooneye_ghia White on bright red smoothies with thick whitewalls. Cruising around to some rockabilly |
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#16 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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I was at a mates place to day and he was talking to a friend of his on the phone who was looking at an XA GT 2 door. Unrestored, unknown condition, I cannot remember whether he said Diamond or Polar White, and I am guessing it had all the usual gear on it etc. etc.
I overheard that the owner was asking $65,000...I nearly choked on my coffee... I asked "Is it an RPO or the first one ever made or something?" No was the reply and I said "WAY WAY too much money" The buyer is apparently loaded and really wants the configuration...but REALLY...this is stupid...this guy is perpetuating a false economic idolization of these cars. I don't really mean to offend anyone either BUT just because some stupid wombat is willing to pay a stupid amount of money for what is really an average or ordinary marque...doesn't mean that's what sellers should be able to ask for them. I know we all have mortgages but does that REALLY excuse you for ripping some poor gobbler who thinks it will be an investment in 25 more years? I have been a Ford V8/GT whatever fanatic all my life...but REALLY... I guess a fool and his money are soon parted. Just my $0.02 worth.
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![]() Toys: 2017.5 LZ Focus RS, Magnetic Grey my new pocket rocket ![]() 2008 BF2 RTV Ute 1993 EB2 S-XR8 Sedan, Platinum, manual (now sold) 1975 XB Fairmont GS Sedan, Tropic Gold...or Starlight Blue...not sure yet...(SOLD) |
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#17 | |||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,565
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Quote:
It would be really interesting to see a spreadsheet of say a P3 and its value over time.
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#18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kerang VIC
Posts: 1,212
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Its ridiculous that the classic icons that were once accessible to the true enthusiasts are now so far out of touch with reality in terms of prices. Don't know whether it will happen with most of the later model Aussie cars. I can't see the Aussie performance cars holding/gaining value like the very few late model and extremely desirable and limited production-run exotic cars such as Ferrari Enzos etc. Hard to predict what will happen to the current FPV/HSV lot in 30 or so years, but it seems the desirability of the so-called muscle cars has declined from say the XR-XY GT's and HK-T-G Monaros. Don't know whether it makes sense what I'm saying. As much as I love our ballsy GTs, Chargers and Monaros, and envy those that are priveleged enough to possess these, it's ridiculous that these cars command similar prices to classics such as 300SL Merc Gullwings, AC Cobras and Aston Martins.
IMO anybody looking to make a buck by paying a premium on a brand new 'exclusive' local car is mad. Just buy them to enjoy them, drive them to appreciate their assets in performance and handling. Why spend mega bucks on something that loses $$thousand$$ every year regardless of whether its only got a few km and is spotless. Cars are meant to be driven. There's only a few cars that are considered investment material. And as it stands there's not a lot post '70's that fits the bill |
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#19 | ||
Ped Pepper Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 612
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65k for an unrestored XA GT 2 Door provided its in better then average condition is not to bad a price to pay imo. Sure if its needs a full resto then that's another story.
I've got a couple of new FPV's and my old GT, and I have this price debate with nearly every tom, dick and harry every other week. Sure the $$$ are in the back of your mind but I enjoy the cars for what they are not what they are worth or could/should/might be worth one day.
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74 XBGT COUPE 05 BAF6 Typhoon 05 BFGT |
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#20 | |||
Clevo Mafia Inc.
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
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Quote:
It's simply supply and demand, it's not like the buyer in question can go to the next car yard for a better deal. Right or wrong this is how it works. |
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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Quote:
I've owned two 70's coupes in my mid 20's between 1983 and 1985 (a 1972 XA Fairmont and a 1973 VH Charger) both in mint condition and have no desire to own either of those models ever again let alone pay top dollar for one...Those days are over. The Valiant was the most diobolical handling vehicle I've ever driven and made a Datsun 120Y seem like a Citreon by comparison.
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2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
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#22 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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Quote:
Yeah I know and that's the problem. As others have said / suggested in this thread...not all that long ago this same $65,000 car would be worth, say $15,000...$20,000 at best...MAYBE...and still not that many of them around then either...what's changed? Some idiot paid $650,000 for a Phase 3 and BINGO...all these people who really know nothing about cars think..."Wait...are they are worth money?" and it snowballs from there I guess. I've got a pretty ORDINARY XB that I paid $1500 (yes you read right $1500) for before all this nonsense started...its an unrestored, Fairmont sedan with very minor rust, GT (nostril) bonnet with twistlock pins, perfect chrome bumpers, 8/10 interior, full instrumentationl, original steering wheel, 302, C4, air, steer, BW, Absolutely UNTOUCHED AND ORIGINAL and drives beautifully...does this mean I can now sell it for $10,000? Then when I want to replace it with another XB...I can't find another in the same condition for less than $5-6000 or more. See my point? I understand your supply and demand point and you are right to a point but that's still no excuse... ![]() ![]() ![]()
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![]() Toys: 2017.5 LZ Focus RS, Magnetic Grey my new pocket rocket ![]() 2008 BF2 RTV Ute 1993 EB2 S-XR8 Sedan, Platinum, manual (now sold) 1975 XB Fairmont GS Sedan, Tropic Gold...or Starlight Blue...not sure yet...(SOLD) |
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#23 | ||
Parts bin special
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Narre Warren, Vic
Posts: 8,275
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HSV Coupe 4 is another one to watch. They were heavier and slower than most HSVs, but with AWD and low numbers built, they can be worth a bit in the future.
Of course this doesn't always apply. Look at the Ford Landau. They had limited numbers built, but are quite often actually worth LESS than the equivalent Falcon coupe.
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Weekender 1964 US Falcon Futura convertible - Rangoon Red 260 Windsor V8, 4 speed manual, LHD, Electronic ignition, Mustang wheels https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11470868 Daily 2014 SZII Territory diesel - basic runabout Previous Cars 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - Tickford engine, 5 speed, SVO wheels, bodykit, much more 2000 AUII Fairmont - XR wheels, Ghia interior 2010 FG XR50T ute - XR8 bonnet, Streetfighter intake |
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#24 | |||
Performance Inc.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 2,554
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Quite a few posts say that fpv's will be worth nothing cause there is so many of them made? do the people who say this actually know that xygt's were made in similar numbers to bf's and nearly 40 years on not too many genuine xy's survive thats why they comand the cash so I put it to you that in 30 years time of the lets say 3000 bf gt's that were made how many will be left and what price will one be prepared to pay to own the ford performance car of the 2007's era? I think that no one has a crystal ball but I would bet that todays hiperf. cars will be worth some serious coin in good nick in the next 20 or so years.
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In The Garage... ![]() FPV Super Pursuit Build no 0080/91 Lotus Exige S/C S240 Kart Hasse Chassis 100J Power Quote:
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#25 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 422
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Man, I've seen a whole lot of Typhoons and GTs smashed up on pickles auctions website... if the crash rate continues then there won't be that many left in 30 years.
Also, the F6/Typhoon is a new car, which has earned a hell of a rep for itself in a very short time. And the b series is also a great looking car. Next to an FG, it looks aged, and is starting to gain a classic look all its own, imo... But as many have said, only time will tell. |
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
They all miss that magical ingredient the others have.
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#28 | |||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
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Quote:
Whilst the B and F series will not command the premiums that the X series GT's have recently enjoyed..........it is eminently obvious that GM and FORD will be chasing more fuel efficient engine technologies for their big displacement engines. The recent DOD output figures for the SS show a reduction in HP and Torque, so its only a matter of time before FORD follows suit or packs the V8 program in altogether......collectors, enthusiasts and opportunists will scramble to get em as is the case with all such end of the line type consumables......I have a feeling that on the day of that announcement, there may very well be some smug B and F series V8 owners out there having a bit of a chuckle !!!!!!! |
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
But if you look at historic "indicators" the X series GT's and HO's recovered to original sales price within 3-5 years.. some even maintained their original sales price..! 10 years down the track average XW GT's were twice their purchase price, HO3's 6+ times, they've gradually climbed since the 80's. To put that in relative perspective can anyone see a BA/F GT or T3 being worth their original price of 65k+ let alone 150K in 3-5 years time????.
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#30 | |||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
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Quote:
![]() The value of these cars will more than likely be commensurate with a disastrous announcement by FORD / FPV that the V8 will cease production etc etc........ Based on current economic and environmental pressures and a quantum shift in the general publics buying preferences.....that day may not be that far off............I can see the F6 leapfrogging the GT in sales real soon.........for the 1st time since the release of the B series FPV's.......I've seen more FG F6's on the road than FG GT's as an initial model release........... |
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