Headlight Glare

[johnydep]

I was going to post this in the Territory section because there has been mention of upgrading head lights, but this is more a Pub subject.

Over the past several weeks I have noticed an increase in vehicles with lights that dazzle; I thought it was just older vehicles with sagged rear suspensions but on closer inspection have found it to be newer vehicles as well.

Originally I thought that owners had changed the globes to a higher wattage, until yesterday when I received a sales brochure for vehicle lighting. It shows various globes with benefits like; 'blue light, crystal clear, whiter', etc. One globe, the Philips CrystalVision Globe had a note; ‘Not approved for road use’.

Is it possible that there has been a hard sell to the public and people are changing their standard globes with these so called 'better globes? Are these types of globes causing the glare or is it the cheap 2$ shop ones? Are ADR compliance rules being broken?
There are a lot of companies offering 'better globes' and driving lights, but how do we know if they are safe & legal?

Some of the newer HID lights seem to be giving a dazzle effect also, I like these lights and once admired them but now it seems that some of the newer vehicles have a problem with glare.
There are a few articles about HID glare problems, here is a link to one such article; Blinded by the light

Here is a scan of the flier;

[Mechan1k]

I decided to get the Phillips Blue Vision (ADR Approved) globe ... as it is meant to be a brighter white and a better globe for vision.

SO ... I have been testing one of these Phillips Globes against a standard run of the mill globe that you can get anywhere.

I am sure the Phillips is a 4000K colour temp globe and the stocker is a 3200K colour temp globe ... and to tell you the truth .... the stock globe actually gives better coverage ... and in adverse conditions is a better globe for seeing with.

So now after testing ... I think it's a waste of money for the better globes.

And I am testing these behind "The Dok's" AU projector lights as well (far superior to the standard AU reflector headlight for beam pattern and distance too. Plus I have a perfect flat top beam now as well.

Mind you ... there's no that much difference in beam colour either on the road ... the Phillips seems to loose intensity as the beam distance is increased.

Result ... IMHO ... behind a projector ... it's no worth spending the $50+ for a set of globes.

I agree HID light really do blind you about 10 times more than regular high beams when the other car comes over a crest.

THe purpley blue colour that you see on a angle also annoys the hell out of me. This seems to be more of a problem with Holden projectors than other makes.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I have been currently testing 3 different bulbs across 3 different BAs

A) the standard Ford fitted Yellow bulbs.
B) Phillips Vision Plus Bulbs - ADR Compliant
C) Phillips Blue Vision - ADR Compliant.

I am happy to say that the later 2 have outperformed the stock bulbs from my point of view, its hard to tell the difference between both of Phillips products, but they are both superior in lighting up the road and cats eyes further away.

As for your problem JD, i have a feeling its all to do with people adjusting their headlights themselves too high, as the glare shouldnt come from an upgrade of bulb thats the same wattage, its from having the light positioned too high.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

I agree HID light really do blind you about 10 times more than regular high beams when the other car comes over a crest.

THe purpley blue colour that you see on a angle also annoys the hell out of me. This seems to be more of a problem with Holden projectors than other makes.

All projectors do this ... as at the top of the beam the light "bends" slightly and causes a kind of rerection ... hence getting the purple/gold colours .... my new projectors do the sale ... when lined up to a wall ... I can see it in my beam.

Also against a wall I can tell the Bluevision compared to standard ... but lately in bad weather on the road of an early morning ... where there is fog and rain and spray from other cars ... the stock globe is better ... I'd say due to colour.

Will post up a pic off my phone showing the difference,
EDIT: Pic added ... Phillips BV left ... stock globe on the right


This is low beam ... you don't want to see high beam ... actually ... you don't want to see Orbit's high beam ... DAMN

[plext]

I'm being blinded so regularly these days by poor headlight aim/crazy blue bulbs/half baked HID implementations, that I'm starting to believe that some sort of checking of headlight glare is soon going to be needed at rego time.

Combine all the above with the thousands of people who deem it a requirement to drive around with their foglights or driving lights on into oncoming traffic when visibility is perfect, and you have what is to me, a very annoying night time driving environment.

[Mechan1k]

Also to Add .. there are Phillips DiamondVision which are meant to be Bluer than the Crystal Vision (ie: higher colour temperature) ... and still not approved for Road use in the ADRs.

When I checked them all out there was a tester there with all the types of lights on test ... and the CrystalVision and the Diamond Vision were just a posers globe ... and had more colour to the beam .. but a drop in light intensity. Whereas the VisionPlus and Blue Vision are meant to be light intensity/clarity improvement over standard.

Having a look at the Phillips site is says for the BlueVision:

• UV block quartz glass used to protect headlight reflectors and lenses
• Fully compliant with ECE R37

I am sure there is an ADR approval number on the casing as well ... will need to dig it up and check what it says though.

[The Dok]

One of the most common issues I find is incorrect bulb installation (H1-H4), what many people don't understand (usually non car minded) is these bulbs only install 1 way, that is they are designed to seat into specific "notches" in the reflector itself. Take for example an H4, if its installed incorrectly, 9 times out of 10 it will be pointing UP e this is common with @30-40% of the headlights I have come through my workshop believe it or not.

Personally speaking, HID set-ups are a waste of $$$, particularlly when being "retro fitted" because the headlight was not designed or intended for these set-ups, hence burning/blueing of the reflector surface can & does occur.
Regarding "projectors" the worst I've ever seen are the GM/Holden type being used currently in the VY/Z range, the output is average at best, because, as is typical of the manufacturer (all Holden headlights have been made in Sth Korea since @1994) they are manufactured "to a price" & are really only a gimmick. :

When I installed the NA/C projector units in the AU headlights, some punters thought I was mad given there are many more "recent" projector units available, but as the guys that have them installed ("Duffman" & "Mechan1k") can verify, the output is quite stunning ,partly because they don't have the "halfglass" in-front of them that was standard when new, & also because I tested many other models (projector units) before settling on the NC type.

Headlights can be your best friend when serviced correctly (bulbs fitted properly/seals, caps etc seated right, lenses kept clean) or your biggest nightmare if they are allowed to become dirty, or have moisture & dust enter the internals or even just badly aligned (I have an alignment guide if anyone wishes to use it). Sadly, I'm starting to sound like "Keepleft" (sorry mate), but, like him, I too am "passionate" about what I do, & am happy to assist/advise anyone who may care to ask. :

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Having a look at the Phillips site is says for the BlueVision:

• UV block quartz glass used to protect headlight reflectors and lenses
• Fully compliant with ECE R37

I am sure there is an ADR approval number on the casing as well ... will need to dig it up and check what it says though.

IF an automotive bulb bears the E mark it WILL be Compliant with ADR 51. Do not use an non E marked bulbs.

It is a matter of choice if one uses "All Weather" (yellowish), "PLUS 30" or "PLUS 50" variety, or "Arctic Blue" (a whiter light within existing beam pattern colour, slightly bluer 'icy white' look for approaching traffic).

HID modifications of non HID headlights is illegal, the above marketed bulbs are not HID.


Mechan1k It is appropriate the your low beam pattern shows a rise to the left per pic for an RHD vehicle. If in doubt otherwise have the car taken and tested by a beam setter.

[Mechan1k]

I have no doubt at all ... mine actually needs adjusting slightly to the left actually ... as you can see when driving the centre of the beam is pointing slightly to the right .... hard to take a pic of it though when on the move as well.

I wouldn't mind knowing the exact procedure on height adjustment though ... just to make sure i am not too high ... although I seem to have it at a good height now ... beam never goes above the rear bumper of the vehicle in front ... even when they are about 10 car lengths away.

I thought E-mark was a necessity ... hence why I bought the Phillips ones to try.

The projectors are sooo much better now compared to a standard reflector running a HID system (awful glare .. no wonder people hated me following them ... I lit everything up).

Also the projectors in mine are as The Dok mentioned from an NC Fairlane ... so from an Oz-based Ford headlights and ADR-approved as well.

Actually drove next to an NC last night on the M2 ... they weren't the best light design for a projector. Beam wasn't the best either.

[The Dok]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

I have no doubt at all ... mine actually needs adjusting slightly to the left actually
I wouldn't mind knowing the exact procedure on height adjustment though ... just to make sure i am not too high
Also the projectors in mine are as The Dok mentioned from an NC Fairlane ... so from an Oz-based Ford headlights and ADR-approved as well.
Actually drove next to an NC last night on the M2 ... they weren't the best light design for a projector. Beam wasn't the best either.

Originally Posted by The Dok

the output is quite stunning ,partly because they don't have the "halfglass" in-front of them that was standard when new

PM me with your email address if you wish & I'll send you the procedure to follow (diagram) & some adjusting tips.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by The Dok

One of the most common issues I find is incorrect bulb installation (H1-H4), what many people don't understand (usually non car minded) is these bulbs only install 1 way, that is they are designed to seat into specific "notches" in the reflector itself. Take for example an H4, if its installed incorrectly, 9 times out of 10 it will be pointing UP e this is common with @30-40% of the headlights I have come through my workshop believe it or not.

Personally speaking, HID set-ups are a waste of $$$, particularlly when being "retro fitted" because the headlight was not designed or intended for these set-ups, hence burning/blueing of the reflector surface can & does occur.
Regarding "projectors" the worst I've ever seen are the GM/Holden type being used currently in the VY/Z range, the output is average at best, because, as is typical of the manufacturer (all Holden headlights have been made in Sth Korea since @1994) they are manufactured "to a price" & are really only a gimmick. :

When I installed the NA/C projector units in the AU headlights, some punters thought I was mad given there are many more "recent" projector units available, but as the guys that have them installed ("Duffman" & "Mechan1k") can verify, the output is quite stunning ,partly because they don't have the "halfglass" in-front of them that was standard when new, & also because I tested many other models (projector units) before settling on the NC type.

Headlights can be your best friend when serviced correctly (bulbs fitted properly/seals, caps etc seated right, lenses kept clean) or your biggest nightmare if they are allowed to become dirty, or have moisture & dust enter the internals or even just badly aligned (I have an alignment guide if anyone wishes to use it). Sadly, I'm starting to sound like "Keepleft" (sorry mate), but, like him, I too am "passionate" about what I do, & am happy to assist/advise anyone who may care to ask. :

Hi Dok, could you post up some tips for people on how they could determine if their headlights are out of wack or causing distraction for other drivers?

Some owners would not realise if their lights are too high, off centre or whatever, if they had some pointers to go by maybe we'd have less problems. :

[The Dok]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Hi Dok, could you post up some tips for people on how they could determine if their headlights are out of wack or causing distraction for other drivers?

Some owners would not realise if their lights are too high, off centre or whatever, if they had some pointers to go by maybe we'd have less problems. :

Happy to assist any way I can, I do have a "tutorial" which basically explains how to set the aiming & check alignment, however it's an (MS) word document so the best way I can give users access is if I email it to them, so anyone who wishes to use it can send me a PM with their email address & I shall forward it to them. Other than that, unless someone wants to convert it or do whatever it takes to post it up here (1.5mb currently) I'd happily send it to them for their expertise. :

[johnydep]

Here you go, it’s something I recently “grafted & modified” to give an idea to anyone interested, I should also mention, it does not contain specific vehicle (model to model) “height” settings, each & every model have different headlight positions, so that information is best sought within a workshop manual or handbook. Best of luck with it, any dramas please let me know.

Cheers, Scott.
THE HEADLIGHT HOSPITAL

CORRECT HEADLIGHT AIMING PROCEDURE

1. Ensure the tyres are inflated evenly, the headlight bulbs are seated correctly & vehicle is sitting reasonably level.
2. Find a 35-40 ft stretch of flat ground such as a driveway facing a wall or garage door.
3. Shine your low beams on the door / wall from @2 to 3 ft away and “outline” the bright spots on the door with a pencil or tape.
4. Back the car to @ 25 ft from the door / wall. The top of the low beams should shine no higher than the top of the marks on the door or lower than the centre of the marked circle. If your vehicle has four headlights the centre of the high beam (the inner two lights) should align with the top of the low beam marks. If you have only two headlights, (EA-ED-EF/L (non XR) & AU (non XR) & BA/F all models (inc XR) & most other later Ford models) the high beams are automatically aimed when you aim the low beams. Also, ensure the LH headlight points slightly towards the road shoulder.
(This is a general guide only, for “precision” aiming, consult a licensed roadworthy tester.)

.

[GEE 87]

one line for ya:
VZ holden SS



some of the angles the lights get into p*** me off - the weird purply crap.
a mate told me that this means lo quality bulbs????

[The Dok]

Nice work John, thanks for that.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by GEE 87

one line for ya:
VZ holden SS

I find most of the late model higher-spec Holdens do this i.e. Calais. They seem like a rainbow of colours when the car is coming towards you.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by GEE 87

one line for ya:
VZ holden SS



some of the angles the lights get into p*** me off - the weird purply crap.
a mate told me that this means lo quality bulbs????

It's actually light bending through the dome of the projector causing those colours ... all vehicles that have projector lenses will do this when you look at the exact top of the beam ... I see it when I follow cars ... at the top of beam (around bumper height of the car in front) I see a Gold/purple tinge in the top line.

Has nothing to do with crap globes ... it does it with standard globes and aftermarket ones.

ADDITION: I have now tried a Narva Plus 50 to test against the Phillips BlueVision (seeing as the standard globe was actually better at night then the BlueVision funnily enough).

And now I am very happy with the narva Plus 50 (same brown tinge as standard globes but much brighter across the beam).

Looks like I wasted $50-odd on the Phillips globes.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

It's actually light bending through the dome of the projector causing those colours ... all vehicles that have projector lenses will do this when you look at the exact top of the beam ... I see it when I follow cars ... at the top of beam (around bumper height of the car in front) I see a Gold/purple tinge in the top line.

Has nothing to do with crap globes ... it does it with standard globes and aftermarket ones.

ADDITION: I have now tried a Narva Plus 50 to test against the Phillips BlueVision (seeing as the standard globe was actually better at night then the BlueVision funnily enough).

And now I am very happy with the narva Plus 50 (same brown tinge as standard globes but much brighter across the beam).

Looks like I wasted $50-odd on the Phillips globes.

YES, the marketed PLUS 50 bulbs, in fact by both Hella and Narva do outperform insofar 'range' the Narva Arctic Blue' and Hella 'Blue Vision'. The 'blues' area white light within existing beam parameters. The PLUS 50 variety are ideal for 'driving lights' and headlight 'inboard' high-beam compartments.

Regardless, each are E marked and automatically ADR 51 compliant,

Horses for courses as to choice.

Narva advised they'll soon have PLUS 50's for HB3's very soon for those that need them.

[Mechan1k]

I think I saw HB3s the other day in Plus 50 at Autobarn

[Miss_XR6]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

I agree HID light really do blind you about 10 times more than regular high beams when the other car comes over a crest.

THe purpley blue colour that you see on a angle also annoys the hell out of me. This seems to be more of a problem with Holden projectors than other makes.

i totally agree with u.. having a car coming towards me with those so called european head lights with the blue in them pi$$es me off its worst then if someone had there high beans aimed at u

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Miss_XR6

i totally agree with u.. having a car coming towards me with those so called european head lights with the blue in them pi$$es me off its worst then if someone had there high beans aimed at u

CHANCES ARE - that the vehicle has undergone aftermarket HID modification. This is illegal. Hell, some motoring forums here a full of folk discussing how this is done.

All the more reason why we shall soon target vehicle lighting in roadworthy checks, with time.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

It's actually light bending through the dome of the projector causing those colours ... all vehicles that have projector lenses will do this when you look at the exact top of the beam ... I see it when I follow cars ... at the top of beam (around bumper height of the car in front) I see a Gold/purple tinge in the top line.

Has nothing to do with crap globes ... it does it with standard globes and aftermarket ones.

ADDITION: I have now tried a Narva Plus 50 to test against the Phillips BlueVision (seeing as the standard globe was actually better at night then the BlueVision funnily enough).

And now I am very happy with the narva Plus 50 (same brown tinge as standard globes but much brighter across the beam).

Looks like I wasted $50-odd on the Phillips globes.

I made EXACTLY that same mistake with my SV8, paying good money for crappy Phillips globes which both failed in about 3 months (ex Telstra car with lights-in running, but EOM globes lasted about 2.5years) I am now running Narva Plus 50's (for over three months) and I'm happy with the results.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

I made EXACTLY that same mistake with my SV8, paying good money for crappy Phillips globes which both failed in about 3 months (ex Telstra car with lights-in running, but EOM globes lasted about 2.5years) I am now running Narva Plus 50's (for over three months) and I'm happy with the results.

I am taking the other Phillips globe out now ... as I have been side by side testing over the last couple of weeks in all conditions ... also there's was little difference in colour temperature as well.

So I will be swapping it out soon when i get myself another H1 Narva plus 50.

[Orbit]

if any one is intrested i have a lot of info on this issue.
it is a mismash at the moment, but if you like PM me and i can give you a copy.

[The Dok]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

CHANCES ARE - that the vehicle has undergone aftermarket HID modification. This is illegal. Hell, some motoring forums here a full of folk discussing how this is done.
All the more reason why we shall soon target vehicle lighting in roadworthy checks, with time.

I totally agree, I get many enquires regarding this modification (not interested myself) but you are right in so much as there is quite a long (@10-15 pages) on another (Ford based) forum explaining exactly how to do the conversion (including many posts from an HID supplier encouraging this), but also think you have opened the proverbial "can of worms":