Why do Aussies think Australian made cars are inferior?

[Resurrection]

It &^%#s me to death some of people's dribble about how crap Australian cars are. I've had 7 cars of which 6 are Australian made (5 Falcons and 1 Magna). All were reliable. What more do people want?

[Iggypoppin']

No idea. Guarantee if you thrash some japanese or Korean car all day with a trailer and full load of adults to Melbourne for the drags it won't hold up as long as a falcon. Aus made cars are 90% of the time built for our driving conditions and driving style.

[Road_Warrior]

Tall poppy syndrome - Australians hate on Australians who do well, as well as things that are made here. In fact, its almost as if you're not one of the cool kids unless you bag out Aussie made stuff.

[TheZHLANE]

Tall Poppy syndrome, never heard of that before

[Giant Cranium]

same how aussies hate other aussies.

realy annoys me that the second your proud of australia or something australia does its lame or bogan

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It &^%#s me to death some of people's dribble about how crap Australian cars are. I've had 7 cars of which 6 are Australian made (5 Falcons and 1 Magna). All were reliable. What more do people want?

Well I have owned many many more times that including quite a number of Australian, Japanese and Korean vehicles bought both new and used over 35 years.

The Australian ones have ALWAYS been the ones that have had the most problems and least reliable.

Unfortunately my Toyotas, Nissans, Hyundais & Mazdas have just kept on going while my Holdens, Falcons, Fairmonts, Ghias & FPVs seemed to be constantly being repaired.

I have a datto, 3 years & 70,000km.....list of faults...mark on seat leather.
I sold my Navara a few months ago, 5 years and 110,000km.....no warranty faults
Avalon.....6 years...ate a battery
Excel, 7 years...also ate a battery and a belt.

GT-P.....gearbox, diff, tailshaft, ecu, oil eating, paint falling off, bolster collapse...... just to name a few.
F6.....clutch, diff, wheel nearly fell off, ecu, electrics destroyed phones, icc....too depressing
Ghia.....auto, paint, collapsed suspension, door locks, weird noises....
BA XT.....brakes, door locks, door grip, brakes (again).....

All new except the XT, all driven almost exclusively by me (XT is wifes car) over the same roads.

I am about to replace the datto. Deciding to buy a GT-E is becoming more and more difficult.....

[Mr Hardware]

Just like flappist's list - it's largely anecdotal. They may have a jap car for a few years and an aussie car for a few years and tar them all with the same brush.

So there's little fact, it's just tarring them all with the same brush and anecdotal evidence.

[Pedro]

Unfortunately for the one eyed believers, I have had the same experiences as flappist for an even longer period of time.

[Redrum]

My FG F6 sedan is going to dealer tomorrow, once again for a warranty issue. The fifth or sixth time in two years. My wife's Fiesta has not yet missed a beat in 18 months and her previous car, a Daewoo Kalos gave us 6 years and 90k of reliable motoring. My previous two Fords Spent nearly a month in total each over a 3 year period in dealers for warranty issues. My BA XR8 spent nearly three weeks at one dealer waiting for a 25c part.

Going on this and my knowledge of family vehicles I must say I agree with argument that Australian cars are inferior in regard to quality and reliability than many of the overseas offerings.

[cheap]

In my opinion...

Part of the steady brain washing kids received back in the 1960's which has been allowed to go on and on by each successive socialist Australian Government.

The media are also hugely responsible, everything Australian is bad and everything foreign is good. Pick up any motoring magazine and it is full of advertisements for foreign cars and parts. I wonder where they get their revenue from? I wonder if there is any bias in their car tests? What hope does the Aussie car have?

Minimum gas mileage, hybrid, hydrogen, minimum CO2, 5 Star safety, meets Euro this and that. This is all foreign clap trap s***, yet any Gen X or Y or Z will recite this nonsense verbatim.

I'm quite sure the Europeans come up with their standards to try and keep foreign competition out, yet we adopt the European standards to kill our local industry. Each new Euro standard and it gets harder and more expensive for the local guys to comply, what hope do they have? Add to that their manufacturing volumes (profits) would be 1/1000 of some of the large foreign manufactures.

Here is a true story: I was talking to cousin (A) yesterday and mention that cousin (B) had bought a new HSV GTS, it is truly an awesome car. First words out of the first cousin (A), "a C63 is better"... this is from a guy who is currently unemployed!

[dre fgf6]

Sorry to ruin it for the die hards but I think for the money asked we are getting ripped off.

I have an FG F6. It's not a bad car but it is by no means great. Poor quality everything, it has been built down to a budget and you can feel it. but yet they still ask for quite alot.

I do however beleive that a base model falcadore represents good value.

In our house there is no brand loyalty in cars. I am a car guy and have an interest in all cars, we have chosen our cars to suit our needs/desires.
Alongside the F6 I also have a current model BMW 3 series and recently sold a modified Mazda 3 MPS. the BMW is boring but very well made with quality materials and is over engineered for its purpose. The Mazda was a much better drive than the FPV and I was reluctant to sell it but I wanted more power than it could give me.

Although I do enjoy the FPV I wouldn't purchase another at half the price I paid.
I am prepared to pay more for a better car but no local company seems interested in making quality cars. Just powerful cars that go fast in straight lines.
(I like that too though)

[RSgerry]

i have had a lot of cars over the years and the Aussie cars represent good value for money. however, build quality is not as good as the Japanese. i wont buy a new Aussie car again after my experiences with a new XR6 a few years ago, but bought an XR8 because there was nothing in that price range at the time that natched the performance and space (and the noise). i am happy to spend 10k on a car with some faults, but for 40k plus, i expect everything to be spot on.

[2011G6E]

The sad fact is that foreign makers simply have thier **** together more than Australian car makers, in general. This is from a guy who just dropped nearly fifty grand on a new G6E by the way...

Consider this: if the protectionist import tarriffs were dropped completely, and everyone had to compete on a level playing field, would you choose an Australian built car purely because it was "made here", or would you choose something interesting for the same price from, say, BMW or Mercedes or another high end maker? If you take away the import duties, tariffs, luxury taxes, and other charges, a hell of a lot of cars which we can't afford become affordable.

The only reason a lot of cars (300C Chrysler, lower end Mercs and BMW's, etc) are sold here as "luxury cars" is that the taxes and charges lumped on them by the government to protect our fragile little industry force them to be sold for luxury prices, when overseas, things like E-class Benzs, 3 and 5 series BMW's, and 300C Chryslers are just "ordinary family cars", that ordinary people own.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It &^%#s me to death some of people's dribble about how crap Australian cars are. I've had 7 cars of which 6 are Australian made (5 Falcons and 1 Magna). All were reliable. What more do people want?

Lawyers go by the principle of never asking a question they dont know what the answer is going to be.

In all honesty, I have never seen any data, that says aussie cars are less reliable. I think people try to relate poor sales due to peoples perception of bad quality, whereas in reality people just forget that Falcon and Commodores are only a small percentage of cars available to buyers, so there is no reason why they should constitute only a small percentage of sales. A person with $25000 will never buy a new Falcon, a person who wants fuel economy has many better options to choose over a Falcon, a person who wants to go off roading will never choose a Falcon etc etc.

But after reading the responses to the thread, maybe it will feed upon the perception you are trying to dismiss.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by RSgerry

i have had a lot of cars over the years and the Aussie cars represent good value for money. however, build quality is not as good as the Japanese.

I've noticed alot of the Japanese brands aren't built all that well (interior wise). Mind you these cars don't come out of Japan. Lancers are the worst of the bunch with crummy plastics.

[Dave R]

It's because Joe average doesn't know what he's talking about. Yes, the imports are screwed together better. This doesn't make them a better car. I've had two FG Falcons, the first was a shocker for quality. Yet I bought a second one.. why? Because regardless of the quality shortfalls (which these days with FG is mainly to do with how the interior is screwed together) they are awesome cars for the money. Look at what you get with an XR6T, a world class turbo inline six, a world class ZF 6 speed auto, exactly the same gearbox used in the Bentley Continental, Audi RS6, Maserati Quattroporte, BMW 3 & 5 series, the list goes on. You get a two and a half tonne towing capacity. You get all the standard equipment you'd expect, iPod integration, bluetooth, climate control, DSC, LSD, 5 star safety rating, etc etc. The only shortfall is that being built in low numbers in this country, the build quality is not going to be as good as the imports. I don't think the imports are perfect in this regard either, particularly the Subarus I have been in, the interior design and build quality has been shocking. Maybe it's better to say that Aussie cars have inferior quality. They are not inferior cars, in fact I see them as vastly superior. It would take alot to get me to buy a FWD, lifeless, gutless POS Aurion, Maxima or Accord. Logically in terms of the mechanical package, the only way up is into a BMW, Audi or Merc. Nobody else does a large, high powered RWD sedan.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

In all honesty, I have never seen any data, that says aussie cars are less reliable.

some of the motoring organisations (RAC?) or magazines run regular reliability surveys. I've seen quite a few, and the aussie cars are nearly always near the bottom.

there are imported cars out there that are worse than ours for reliability, but anyone who thinks our cars mix it with the best in the world for build quality and reliability is dreaming.

Do any other brands have similar rust problems on late model cars?

Originally Posted by dre fgf6

I do however beleive that a base model falcadore represents good value.

and that's the key - they're still good cars. Enjoy them, but accept that the likelihood of having to fix something is higher than on many other makes/models. For me, the money I've had to spend fixing things isn't huge (much of it has been warranty) so I'm not that bothered. I like my Fords and will buy more of them in the future I'm sure. It is possible to be a genuine Ford fan while acknowledging that they have flaws.

[SumoDog68]

Because they are :-) our production facilities are not as advanced as those of some other countries and our designs are mostly improvements of the old design which was improvement of the previous design etc.
Our workforce is not as suitable to production line process as some other cultures are. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does not produce uniform quality cars.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Because they are :-) our production facilities are not as advanced as those of some other countries and our designs are mostly improvements of the old design which was improvement of the previous design etc.
Our workforce is not as suitable to production line process as some other cultures are. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does not produce uniform quality cars.

Our production facilities are fine, but seeing as its an old plant making it more efficient is difficult.

As for the workforce they are actually have to think more then your regular asian car worker. Asian cars make one car on a production line (sometimes high series and low series models are split if there is enough units) Ford Oz have 3. This is much harder. BMW do this and do this well but they also have a bigger budget and command a much higher price.

[Brazen]

The most reliable cars I have ever encountered have been Australian. The worst for me have been Japanese, Nissan in particular.

Also there is a lot of baggage that Aussie cars carry as they used to be the big sellers, so 15 - 20 years ago most cars were Aussie. So many peoples expirences of an Aussie car are the older ones, whereas with much more imports being bought nowadays many people encounter imported cars which are a lot newer.
I had a colleague say his next car was going to be Japanese as his EB Falcon is having radiator and central locking issues... I had to remind him his car is 19 years old.

Im quite confident with regular servicing that a new Commodore or Falcon will last me a quarter of a million kays before major mechanical replacements (engine/trans). I would expect 200,000km out of a Asian car and about 180,000km out of a Euro. These are just figures I work in when working out the resale value of cars and from being around cars my whole life.

[Windsor220]

Falcons and Commodores suffer heaps of niggling problems. They are lot more powerful and heavier than a lot other cars too which doesnt help.
You dont seem to get as much problem with a lot of Japanese cars. Euros are ok too, apart from brakes, but both dont seem to last as long as the Aussies.

So while you get niggling problems with the Aussies they still seem to last longer overall than the competition. This is just in my experience.

[xy500]

everyone has their own opinions, and everyone's experience differs.
I think the funny part of it all, is when people think they are high rollers when they get a base model bmw sedan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Lawyers go by the principle of never asking a question they dont know what the answer is going to be.

In all honesty, I have never seen any data, that says aussie cars are less reliable. I think people try to relate poor sales due to peoples perception of bad quality, whereas in reality people just forget that Falcon and Commodores are only a small percentage of cars available to buyers, so there is no reason why they should constitute only a small percentage of sales. A person with $25000 will never buy a new Falcon, a person who wants fuel economy has many better options to choose over a Falcon, a person who wants to go off roading will never choose a Falcon etc etc.

But after reading the responses to the thread, maybe it will feed upon the perception you are trying to dismiss.

Good post.
Perhaps the reason there was so much criticism of Falcons and Holden in the 70s/80s and 90s was because the sheer weight of numbers on our roads so naturally, if a car broke down it was most likely Holden or Ford. I think that's where the perception of poor quality stems from, past history sprinkled with a couple of modern day lemon cars and you have a recipe for urban myth.

But now times have changed and large car are like 10% of sales, so now when a Falcon or Commodore has a fault, everyone hears about it , thinks the worst, jumps all over it and condemns the whole lot. I have had FG Ute, BA I XT, EF II Futura - all from new and can say that each of them were basically fuss free motoring. So yes I think saying Falcadores are mostly poor quality is an urban myth.

[Wretched]

Unfortunately I haven't had a great experience with the two falcons I have owned. Both new, a BA XT and BF2 XR8.

The XT had problem after problem in the 5 years of ownership such as coolant leak from factory, lack of paint in a lot of areas, transmission whine, terrible brakes, diff clunk, the solenoid in the rear passenger door packing up twice so the car couldn't be locked and many more issues.

The XR8 while not quite as many still for a model that should have ironed out the issues was quite disappointing (about a year of ownership). Leather seats incorrectly stitched and came adrift within a month of ownership, lack of paint in obvious places, terrible brakes, front bearings worn and other minor nigglies.

I then moved to a Focus XR5T (LT) brand new and it has been fantastic in the 3 years of driving. There were only two issues, CD was stuck in CD player and some diaphram had torn in the PCV something or other.

Since the Focus, I have decided never to go back to a Falcon. The Focus is big enough for me and I do actually enjoy driving it. It handles brilliantly, sounds fantastic and has a bit of go when needed. Plus the seats are really comfy.

For me there is no hating local cars, I have driven many of them from both Holden and Ford. I have also driven many overseas brands due to many friends working for these brands. My opinion is only based on experience. While the FGs I have driven are nice they are what the BF+ should have been. The locals are ok for a 40- 45k car but after that the value isn't there. I do not see anything to want to bring me back to a Falcon. If i was after a larger car it would be a Mondeo (if it was a Ford), all the bells and whistles for less.

There are quality issues with the locals no one can deny it. I am not saying overseas makes don't have issues either but the locals don't seem to be doing anything about it. The quality of materials is questionable such as the interior (hard and sharp plastics, use of vinyl, etc) and the brakes are just woeful for the XRs and SV/SS.

People like to bag the Koreans and while I wouldn't own a Hyundai they have made significant progress in quality control. They have a long way to go in materials and dynamics but in their short life so far they have come a long way.

I don't expect the locals to have 7 series or S class quality or technology but what I do expect is a lot better than now. They're both local arms of large international companies yet where is the component & technology sharing? This is what lacks in local cars, what are you giving the buyer if they're not after a bogan traffic light racer?

It isn't the buying public hate the local cars they just have a wider selection of cars that fit their needs better, that give them more of what they want. Until Ford and Holden realise the Falcon and Commodore are not what they used to be then they'll continue the downward spiral.

[4.0i_SiX]

Working in a mechanical workshop that does servicing, repairs, air conditioning and safety certs etc . I belive after seeing the cars that come through that theyre all just as bad as each other. Generally the Falcons will have smaller issues like broken interior trim, bonnet release cables etc, while the running gear holds up extremely well with a hell of a lot of k's on board. The commodores engines dont last nearly as long. But the interior seems to hold up to more punishment ( not that it feels or looks any better though )

The Euro stuff is garbage IMO. They chew through brakes, have heaps of electrical and A/C issues and all cost a small fortune to repair as cost and availability of parts are cause for concern. The Jappa stuff holds together reasonably well. We do see alot of engine and trans failures. Particularly mistubishi. The Toyota build quality has dropped in the last few years and there are alot of electrical and air conditioning issues.

The korean stuff. While it has improved, continues to be cheaply made, cheap to buy but expensive to repair. Cost of parts often rival or exceed that of the Euro cars. NO THANKS

They all have their good and bad points.

[Padrino90]

This is still one thing that puzzles me..... my focus seems to have certain standard features that aren't present on my falcon. For instance, auto windows up and down for all, its really not that hard to include in a falcon, yet they still persist to put auto down only for the driver only.....HUGE oversight and something average joe will say WTF, and look elsewhere in the Ford range. They need to start differnentiating the Falcon with respect to its price tag...who would spend $50K plus on a car when a lesser car worth $40K has more standard kit, regardless of how great the engine is (and boy do i love that i6)....but its is definately getting harder to choose falcadore..

[chevypower]

Fords were always built on tougher frames, including the Falcon. But European cars tend to be more refined. Eg my dad's 2004 WK Caprice had a whining-sounding diff when it was brand new. Something I wouldn't expect in an E-Class. It's just preference really though. Yes, for some it's more about badge snobbery. But that's their choice. These days, it seems like every car is well made and refined. Even the Sonata/i45 and the Optima are way ahead of their predecessors. BMW, Audi, Merc although they have improved, the improvement doesn't seem as dramatic. It didn't need to be as much, but they were far from perfect. The playing field seems to have leveled out over the last decade, probably in part due to the globalization in the auto industry.

[Polyal]

This is a very general because let's face it, many people come to this forum because they have a problem...so there must be a lot of other people out in the real world who either can't be bothered or don't have a problem.

Aussie cars are built to a price that is much tighter than that of say a truly global car, actually to be fair it's not even in the same ball park.

Quality control is the main issue, but that stems right back to supplier level aswell.

As much as a I hate the thought, a globalized falcon off a shared platform is really a great outcome for consumers.....just not the work force.

So ultimately I think that's going to be the trade off.

That's not to say that what we have is inferior, that's too harsh, the falcon holds up to some of the best in the world. For example, the xt suspension is one of the best as far as primary ride is concerned...but getting all the factors together costs big bucks, that's why your golfs, bmws, merc's etc are so good....they are only seen as elite because of our tax structure...but thank god for that because imagine if a c class was closer in price to a falcon......

[dave289]

Originally Posted by dre fgf6

Sorry to ruin it for the die hards but I think for the money asked we are getting ripped off.

I have an FG F6. It's not a bad car but it is by no means great. Poor quality everything, it has been built down to a budget and you can feel it. but yet they still ask for quite alot.

I do however beleive that a base model falcadore represents good value.

In our house there is no brand loyalty in cars. I am a car guy and have an interest in all cars, we have chosen our cars to suit our needs/desires.
Alongside the F6 I also have a current model BMW 3 series and recently sold a modified Mazda 3 MPS. the BMW is boring but very well made with quality materials and is over engineered for its purpose. The Mazda was a much better drive than the FPV and I was reluctant to sell it but I wanted more power than it could give me.

Although I do enjoy the FPV I wouldn't purchase another at half the price I paid.
I am prepared to pay more for a better car but no local company seems interested in making quality cars. Just powerful cars that go fast in straight lines.
(I like that too though)

Ok so your f6 is not perfect. But to by a bmw with over 300kw you would need to sell your house. Thats the difference. Yes these cars are not perfect but they are made to a strict budget and things often get sorted by series 2 or 3. What other imports with over 300kw can you buy for anything close to these dollars .ANSWER -NOTHING.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by flappist

The Australian ones have ALWAYS been the ones that have had the most problems and least reliable.

i guess that means that toyotas are unreliable, because they are made here.
I think it's silly to talk about country of manufacture when most companies these days are global and saying a car from japan is better isn't necessarily true when it was built in a completely different country.