Covid 19 -

[Jack91]

Also, as much as i want someone to blame for hotel quarantine screwup, its not totally 100% their fault.
Its like the salesman getting a speeding ticket after he sold you a mustang.
However if a public stoning occurs to said person, im in.
Will be nice to see government accountability for once

[Polyal]

Tourist thing will be interesting.

If you were travelling at the moment would you go to a country/area you know has high numbers? Depends on your motivation perhaps. I know I wouldnt and we have canned our OS trip for next year to the EU even if flights re-open.

#herdby2021

Here's one distillery that rose to the occasion and switched from making rum to making sanitiser to meet demand when there was a shortage and they were left unable to sell it after cheaper imports finally arrived. They'd spent $100k on equipment and used rum that was about to be sold for considerably higher prices just to be able to support the community and it was for naught. Poor buggers, bet they don't attempt to help anyone out again.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-...ocket/12380766

[T3rminator]

What's with the spoonville popping up everywhere? My dog thinks it's a good pee station.
Looks like Dandrews has some fans in the next generation.

[Trevor 57]

a pee station sound appropriate lol

[russellw]

I've said it before but it bears repeating here.

I'm not sure why they all feel the need to lie about it, especially public servants who are almost unsackable anyway.

What's the worst case? They look stupid? Their career stalls? People burn effigies of them in the street?

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues. It wouldn't have been a single individual that made the decision anyway so they might as well line up for the collective public rogering and get it over with.

1. If you lie about it then you just look plain bad and if you lie to the inquiry then you've committed an offence that will be career ending anyway;
2. If you are stupid enough to think that the electronic trail wouldn't lead back to you eventually then you deserve to lose your $600k per annum CHO job; and
3. If you think the "I didn't read the detail" excuse gets you off the hook then we can add incompetence to lying and stupidity regardless of how many emails you get per day. Mind you, I agree that such portentous matters shouldn't be left to an email communication but I'd be prepared to bet that there were conversations about the decision.

Let's not forget that while it turned out to be a bad decision, it made reasonable sense at the time it was made and it's only the outcome and media brouhaha that is has made it such a poisoned chalice.

I wonder how many of them would be putting up their hands claiming credit if the decision had been a good one?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by russellw

I've said it before but it bears repeating here.

I'm not sure why they all feel the need to lie about it, especially public servants who are almost unsackable anyway.

What's the worst case? They look stupid? Their career stalls? People burn effigies of them in the street?

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues. It wouldn't have been a single individual that made the decision anyway so they might as well line up for the collective public rogering and get it over with.

1. If you lie about it then you just look plain bad and if you lie to the inquiry then you've committed an offence that will be career ending anyway;
2. If you are stupid enough to think that the electronic trail wouldn't lead back to you eventually then you deserve to lose your $600k per annum CHO job; and
3. If you think the "I didn't read the detail" excuse gets you off the hook then we can add incompetence to lying and stupidity regardless of how many emails you get per day. Mind you, I agree that such portentous matters shouldn't be left to an email communication but I'd be prepared to bet that there were conversations about the decision.

Let's not forget that while it turned out to be a bad decision, it made reasonable sense at the time it was made and it's only the outcome and media brouhaha that is has made it such a poisoned chalice.

I wonder how many of them would be putting up their hands claiming credit if the decision had been a good one?

If he didn't remember being emailed then it would have been best to just say that - "I don't recall getting anything on it, but I'll go back and recheck everything and get back to you". Then it would have been "Thanks Prof. Sutton, appreciate if you can do that."

Tick, job done.

But now it looks like he deliberately decided to suppress evidence. This is what happens when u get caught out fibbing - you keep fibbing to cover up the prior porky.

Anyhoo, on with the chase!

Sutton told lawyers they didn't need to hand security guard emails to inquiry

https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...20-p566wk.html

[prydey]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues.

This is the bit that gets conveniently left out by those with the pitchforks...

Some people just want to string someone up rather than admit personal responsibility played just as big a role, if not bigger.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues.

Yes, Yes it was a bad decision in fact it was negligent given what they knew.

The Victorian government was well aware that the Victorian security industry was a mess.

One of its policies at the 2018 election was to hold an enquiry into the industry.

From the government:

In October 2018, the Premier, The Hon. Daniel Andrews, announced the Victorian Government would conduct a review of the private security industry. The aim is to:

raise industry standards
improve safety of employees and the community
ensure workers are paid properly and fairly.
The Review will look at the current licencing and regulatory framework, the operation of the Private Security Act 2004 and its associated regulations. We need to determine what reforms are appropriate to improve the safety and security of all Victorians.

It will consider:

the prerequisites that are needed to participate in the industry
the training of employees
how compliance is monitored and enforced
employment practices and how workplace laws are applied.
The Review will deliver its final report and recommendations to the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, the Treasurer and the Premier by December 2020.

With the above in mind the Labor government within an extremely short time frame around the 27th of March engaged a non-approved security firm with a 30 million contract to provide hotel security, whose previous years revenue was around 3 million.

Unified Security had to scale up around 20x - 30x in a very short time frame.

This is negligence. Red flags galore.

Pure and simple.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by zipping

Yes, Yes it was a bad decision in fact it was negligent given what they knew.

The Victorian government was well aware that the Victorian security industry was a mess.

One of its policies at the 2018 election was to hold an enquiry into the industry.

From the government:

In October 2018, the Premier, The Hon. Daniel Andrews, announced the Victorian Government would conduct a review of the private security industry. The aim is to:

raise industry standards
improve safety of employees and the community
ensure workers are paid properly and fairly.
The Review will look at the current licencing and regulatory framework, the operation of the Private Security Act 2004 and its associated regulations. We need to determine what reforms are appropriate to improve the safety and security of all Victorians.

It will consider:

the prerequisites that are needed to participate in the industry
the training of employees
how compliance is monitored and enforced
employment practices and how workplace laws are applied.
The Review will deliver its final report and recommendations to the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, the Treasurer and the Premier by December 2020.

With the above in mind the Labor government within an extremely short time frame around the 27th of March engaged a non-approved security firm with a 30 million contract to provide hotel security, whose previous years revenue was around 3 million.

Unified Security had to scale up around 20x - 30x in a very short time frame.

This is negligence. Red flags galore.

Pure and simple.

did you hear the Counsel assisting say "creeping assumptions" - that is pretty accurate I reckon, not one, but a group of people 'assumed'

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT October 20th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

30 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.299% while active cases rise to 1,398. NSW recorded 5 cases, WA had 24 with the balance (1) in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is down to 7.21 with metro falling to 6.2 (12 unknown) and regional at 0.4 with no unknown cases (including today). Victoria reported 3 new cases for the last 24 hours.

1 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.325% and active cases fall to 35.

The UK had a new record 21,330 new cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 241 deaths.

Just over 60.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 458 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.663% and active cases steady at to 32.3% with the raw numbers rising over 2.7M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 41M with the last 1M only taking 3 days;
Europe set a new daily case high of 154,647 (20/10);
The USA completes 127M, India 96M, UK 30M, Poland 4M, Morocco & Portugal 3M and Venezuela 2M test;

Albania (301)
Greece (667)
Bosnia (728)
Georgia (1,194)
Bulgaria (1,336)
Iran (5,039)
Czechia (11,984)
Spain (13,873) - the highest since 18th September
Russia (16,319); and
the UK (21,330) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[Polyal]

Have a go at the amount of abbreviation in Sutto's email signature, bugger me id forget after the first couple! He must have a ripper linkedin account

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Have a go at the amount of abbreviation in Sutto's email signature, bugger me id forget after the first couple! He must have a ripper linkedin account

Looks like his cat walked across the keyboard.

[Trevor 57]

oh, just curious, did Brett Sutton's email contain any 'smoking gun' revelations? Or was it just another MSM beat up?

Can't have been too much in it, all the MSM news ran as the main story about the horse racing this weekend and how Dan did this and Dan did that (Murdoch hounds are certainly on the trail)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_mSnAKWHZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCxXP3R4uM8

[tweeked]

I actually really like it when a politician "Backflips". Nothing better than if you find out you were wrong changing your decision. So funnily enough I actually give Andrews a solid pass on the Cox Plate thing.

[wodahs]

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ening/12796606

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by wodahs

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ening/12796606

I like Lindsay, he is a straight shooter, very community minded and very generous and an all round funny bloke - just a truckie

[buggerlugs]

Is reaching zero Covid 19 even possible.......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...ble3f/12798300

[Citroënbender]

That’s why I have consistently compared some Australian state policies/statements on CV to ideas about the road death toll. Despite it being a practically unattainable goal, strictures, penalties and haranguing are readily employed against the massed population.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Is reaching zero Covid 19 even possible.......

Ignoring that article for a moment, the short answer is yes but only at an economic and social cost that no one is willing to bear.

Several countries have shown you can contain and effectively eliminate community infections but it takes several months of intense lockdown to do so.

What hasn't worked is stopping the reintroduction of the virus via incoming travellers and I really can't see an indefinite ban on International travel getting a guernsey here or anywhere else for that matter. A couple of the smaller island nations are doing just that but when their economies are tourism based, it's only a short term strategy at best.

Thus, the 'real' answer is probably no and even with a 50% efficacious vaccine the answer will probably remain a firm no.

[Tickford.]

Anyone who attended Bathurst on the weekend, and all local residents are urged to get tested after traces of COVID-19 detected in sewerage in Bathurst.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...3-3bdeca414917

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/P...201021_03.aspx

I think 4000+ was the number of spectators in attendance. Did they really think they all would be COVID free? It was bound to happen.

[Tickford.]

And the northern suburbs of Melbourne is at it again!

Two schools have been closed for cleaning and 120 residents at a social housing block have been asked to self-isolate while health authorities get on top of an outbreak in Melbourne's northern suburbs.

The East Preston Islamic College has been closed for deep cleaning after it was revealed a student that was supposed to be self-isolating as a close contact had gone to school due to a misunderstanding.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p567en.html

[Trevor 57]

I saw that this morning and just shook my head - is understanding English a problem?

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I saw that this morning and just shook my head - is understanding English a problem?

When people in charge are reusing components of blood test equipment, when they are trying to fight infection spread and understand who is positive, what hope is there.....

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT October 21st, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

15 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.298% while active cases drop to 1,392. NSW recorded 10 cases, WA & SA had 1 each with the balance in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is down to 6.79 with metro falling to 6.1 (10 unknown) and regional at 0.4 with no unknown cases (including today). Victoria reported 5 new cases for the last 24 hours.

25 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.308% and active cases rise to 56.

The UK had a new record 26,687 new cases yesterday, some 5k more than the previous high a day earlier. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 191 deaths.

Just over 62k new cases in the USA yesterday and 952 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.654% and active cases steady at to 32.3% with the raw numbers rising and still over 2.7M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences. Worth noting that today is already looking worse with >1k deaths.

Other notable points:
Global cases set a new daily high of 433,813 - 20k above the prior high;
Europe set a new daily case high of 193,398 - almost 40k more than yesterday;
The USA completes 128M, India 97M and Russia 55M tests;

Angola (289)
Lithuania (311)
Luxembourg (430)
Serbia (512) - the previous high on July 26th
Greece (865) - 30% above the high of yesterday
Azerbaijan (714)
Bosnia (926) - 27% above the previous high
Georgia (1,351)
Croatia (1,424) - 26% above the previous high
Bulgaria (1,472)
Slovenia (1,503) - 67% above the previous high
Armenia (1,836)
Austria (1,958)
Slovakia (2,202)
Jordan (2,648)
Romania (4,848) - 20% above the previous high
Switzerland (5,596) - 80% above the previous high
Iran (5,616)
Nepal (5,743)
Ukraine (6,719)
Netherlands (8,743)
Poland (10,040)
Germany (10,457) - 31% above the previous high
Czechia (14,969) - 25% above the previous high
Italy (15,199) - 39% above the previous high
Spain (16,973); and
the United Kingdom (26,687) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[hayseed]

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by hayseed

image

that includes that Federal mob as well. Josh needs to worry about his budget

Plus, Lindsay should be in a St.Kilda jumper, he played for them back in the day and is a past President

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

that includes that Federal mob as well. Josh needs to worry about his budget

Plus, Lindsay should be in a St.Kilda jumper, he played for them back in the day and is a past President

Don’t reckon Lindsays old jumper would fit him now!he’s probably about 30 kgs over playing weight (bit like most of us)

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Don’t reckon Lindsays old jumper would fit him now!he’s probably about 30 kgs over playing weight (bit like most of us)

he works in transport , if its anything like his trucks going up the road 30kg over is nothing

[Trevor 57]

more likely 60 hahahaha