Bali 9

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

What next, the Adolf Hitler Humanitarian Society!
Anything's possible, hell, even Jews buy Volkswagens now!!!

WHAT...

Funny story, a Jewish community emergency team in Melbourne asked us to take off the Mercedes badges on their Sprinter patient transporter we built for them.

It still runs rather deep.

[csv8]

malazan mafia..it costs $66k a year to keep a prisoner in Queensland..a bullet is cheaper..

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

If younger readers here are curious why the Indonesians hate us over East Timor, here is a thumb-nail sketch of the story.

East Timor was formerly a Portuguese colony that the Indons had tried to take over once before. In 1999 they sent in drug-fuelled, machete-wielding militias who literally were carving the locals up.

Australia led international efforts to put an international military force together to stop it. We ended up providing over half the troops, with our special forces at the sharp end.

We were worried, however, that the Indons could mobilise their huge regular army and cream us.The operation could not work without the United States' approval, Initially this proved difficult — East where? However, as former Portuguese colony, East Timor was and is predominantly Catholic. Wealthy and powerful Catholic lobbies in the United States got onto President Bill Clinton. The Americans then provided critical support, and logistics.

The United States also frightened Indonesia from attempting large scale mobilisation. They thoughtfully parked a couple of their big warships, packed with marines, just below the horizon. The Indonesian air force could see the the US marines exercising on the decks. Indonesia had to back off. It lost a lot of face. You can see it might bear a grudge towards westerners and Australia in particular.

But it is not only western countries that Indonesia has a problem with. China and Indonesial do not get on. This is partly historical. The Chinese see the Indonesian regime as a right-wing military set-up. There is also the fact that when anything goes wrong in Indonesia, the local Chinese get the stick.

Don't forget 'Konfrontasi'

[EFIwindsor]

[tasdex]

if the goverment thought so much about these " poor fellows " as well as the aus press that milked it for every last drop ,
with all their " ohh the poor buggers " comments and so forth , maybe they would have rathered ov had them shipped back to aus , and have them move in next door to them .
the house next to kirrbilli house even ..
maybe mr abbot " who was so sorry for these "fuggin idiots " , would even introduce them to his daughters as they picked up their daily paper out the front .
or even offer them a pot of fresh tea to the junkie's that break into their home to swipe thier plasma tv to swap for thier next jab in the arm , from their nextdoor neighbor.

just wait till the next tsunami ,,,,
"guess who will ask for millions of aussie dollars in relief funds that we have put aside for just occasions " ? .
then sook to get our tourism dollars to recoup their economy .


only victum now is their lawyers ,,,,
they wont be able to get the armani floor mats now for their new bmw ..

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by csv8

malazan mafia..it costs $66k a year to keep a prisoner in Queensland..a bullet is cheaper..

A bunch of indonesians got busted trying to bring 300kg of crack into Aus in 1998. They're still doing time until now. How about we send their citizens back on the proviso they take a few pedophiles, rapists and murderers from our prison system along and finish them off on that execution island.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Funny story, a Jewish community emergency team in Melbourne asked us to take off the Mercedes badges on their Sprinter patient transporter we built for them.

It still runs rather deep.

I thought they owned Mercedes before the war and still do now and VW as well.
The German people have the most Hebrew blood line in the world and that was way before even Hitler's time and even Hitler has the same blood line.
It is well documented that we Hebrews emigrated from the year 300 and another wave in 600 and another in 900.
They integrated into the whole society and just some did not.

[BradEL]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

A bunch of indonesians got busted trying to bring 300kg of crack into Aus in 1998. They're still doing time until now. How about we send their citizens back on the proviso they take a few pedophiles, rapists and murderers from our prison system along and finish them off on that execution island.

Just from that paragraph I'd give you my vote for Prime Minister

[GasoLane]

It took longer than I thought but we've managed to change topics, change continents, change races and change religions !!

Back on topic please.

[cs123]

Kind of got me thinking about the role of the AFP in all this. They knew about these guys and if what Scott's father says is true then he asked them to stop his son.

The AFP says that they didn't have evidence to arrest them, but why not bring them in for questioning. That would have scared them off and prevented them doing anything illegal in the first place. Why not have a chat with them at the airport before they left.

Surely stopping people committing crime is more important than catching them.

[LG17]

The Bali 9 are history...

[Bill M]

Don't like drug dealers, traffickers or Australian cops who shop Australians overseas in countries that have the death penalty.

[Uncle_Ken]

And the topic was ?
It’s easy to see now politics greys any topic. But as far as the Bali 9 go..
These guys weren't just drug mules. Home town home rules ie. get caught get death.
In Aus get caught, do time. I think it is that simple.
Re the death penalty. If you boycott Indonesia then you would have to add:
Afghanistan · Bahamas · Bangladesh · Belarus · Botswana · China · Cuba · Egypt · Guatemala . India ·· Iran · Iraq · Japan · Jordan · North Korea · South Korea · Lebanon · Malaysia · Pakistan · Russia · Saudi Arabia · Singapore · Somalia · Sri Lanka · Syria · Taiwan · Tajikistan ·
Thailand · Tonga · United Arab Emirates · United States · Vietnam · Yemen


So is the death penalty bad because it’s bad, or because Aussies are on death row? That’s another discussion I think.


Another topic would be how our media dealt with it. Interesting now there’s been a new Royal birth, that seems to be getting all the air time. I watch the news less and less now because of our crap news reporting.
Just my thoughts.
UK

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Ken

So is the death penalty bad because it’s bad, or because Aussies are on death row? That’s another discussion I think.

Cause its Aussies. No one gives a rats for the other 204 facing the firing squad (prob less now but you wouldn't hear about it). No one gets up in arms about the US and how many are being proven to actually be innocent of the crimes.

[56L]

One thing the australian government should learn from this situation is that Idonesia has taught us how to stand by thier own policies,therefore we should never let any MINORITY GROUPS COME HERE AND INTERFERE WITH OURS

[castellan]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Cause its Aussies. No one gives a rats for the other 204 facing the firing squad (prob less now but you wouldn't hear about it). No one gets up in arms about the US and how many are being proven to actually be innocent of the crimes.

That's right, but it was our Government that has the blood on it's hands in this one because the feds did not bust them here.
There is a bit more to it all but that's the main issue and nothing other really.

[Spinner77]

Without wishing to flame anybody, I would quietly suggest that there are several, maybe quite different questions in all this. Here are some.

1. Did the Bali pair deserve their fate?

I express no view

2. Does Australia's government have a right to express its views, on clemency and anything else?

Absolutely. Indonesia does it itself with foreign countries.

3. When Indonesia fails to answer reasonable questions from Australia, tells our Foreign Minister to mind her own business, and its President does not return our Prime Minister's calls, should we just bite the gag hard and bend over the desk as commanded?

Absolutely not. We have every right to demand common respect. And to be angry, and to do things, if we don't get it.

Can you imagine how a Dodo Widildo would respond if Australia treated him like that?

There would be riots outside our embassy in Jakarta.

[Spinner77]

My sincerest and humblest apologies.

I swear I typed "Joko Widodo".

Must be static electricity in the keyboard.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

My sincerest and humblest apologies.

I swear I typed "Joko Widodo".

Must be static electricity in the keyboard.

Na I think you got the spelling right the first time. Dodo Wil-dildo is what I will call him from now on.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

Without wishing to flame anybody, I would quietly suggest that there are several, maybe quite different questions in all this. Here are some.

1. Did the Bali pair deserve their fate?

I express no view

2. Does Australia's government have a right to express its views, on clemency and anything else?

Absolutely. Indonesia does it itself with foreign countries.

1. My view- yes, they knew what they were doing, they knew the risk and the profit to be made, their greed and disregard for human life and decency won out, they took a massive high stake gamble with the potential to destroy many life's and make huge profits on the misery of others and Australian society in general and they lost, you lose you pay, simple really.

2) They can express their view, but they should not be interfering with another countries legal system and laws, especially when they are as well publicised with warnings, signs etc as the death penalty for drug smugglers.

[kazawaki]

What really ****** me of is the negative attention that the feds are copping.
They were doing there job,if they do not co-operate with other countries then guess what they will not co-operate with them and just watch the huge influx of drugs increase because there will be no heads up from other countrys police.
If telling other countrys means drug dealers get killed so be it.They were not juveniles and were aware of the penaltys,as for all these people saying they were reformed,did they all meet them ???? i dont think so its easy to be good after your busted.LEAVE THE COPPERS ALONE, never thought i would ever say that but there you go.

[bungarra]

I know some may get offended but:

1. They had done multiple drugs from multiple countries
2. Did a dry run a month before to test Balinese security
3. Threatened two of the Bali 9 with death to them or their families when they tried to pull out.
4. Admitted they used the mules and not carry themselves as they knew the death penalty applied for drug carrying
5. Andrew Chan was in control of a drug run from Hong Kong in which 3 people under 18 were coerced with threats to undertake the drug run
6. Andrew Chan sent a letter to the 17 year old girl in Hong Kong when he was caught in Indonesia not to name him as when he got off in Bali he would come after her and her family.
7. Neither apologised to any of the total of 13 people arrested in the Bali case including 4 in Australia for involving them in their crime
8. Andre Chan never apologised to the three people arrested in Hong Kong for involving them
9. Neither parents could suddenly speak English well when confronted by Asian media with evidence of their 330K plus mortgages being paid off in two years by their sons who worked for a catering company at the time they were running drugs.
10. They had top flight lawyers on the way to Indonesia within hours of being arrested. (pre planned in case of emergency?)
11. Why so much media involvement for these two, when two other Australian citizens are sitting on death row in Asian countries?
12. Whom of influence in the media, business, legal or political sphere was pushing the media?
13. Who ultimately paid the bill for two for Australia's top international law experts and Indonesian Lawyers?
14. Why tax payers are being forced to pay for the repatriation of two criminals bodies?

In the end, no one forced these guys to be drug runners, they liked the money, the thrill of beating the system and knowing others were doing their dirty work. They were only showing remorse as they finally realised they were not going to get off easy and time was ending. I doubt if they had not been caught, that they would have stopped.

[xtremerus]

Surely the father who knew his son was going there to be a drug mule, had warned him. But still he went ahead. Dumb.
The lawyer that told the AFP should have also warned the persons going over there.
The lawyer also has blood on his hands, as he knew before the AFP did, by his story.

[Spinner77]

Bungarra makes fair points.

The interesting thing is that this case may have a lasting effect on Australia — but in ways totally opposite to what the politically-correct media would expect or even imagine.

Barnably Joyce had to report the feelings expressed to him, by I assume correspondence he was getting. He thinks there is a mood to debate the death penalty, even though he doesn't favour it.

If, or more likely when, there are more incidents here by you-know-who, it isn't hard to guess what the majority will want, and eventually will demand.

But I could be wrong. I noticed the other day a circumcision clinic in Coburg.

Could come in handy, I thought.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Funny story, a Jewish community emergency team in Melbourne asked us to take off the Mercedes badges on their Sprinter patient transporter we built for them.

It still runs rather deep.

That's not the reason. The likely reason is because badges often get in the way of any signage that you put on the vehicle. I see Hiace vans with the Toyota logo removed from the rear for this same reason. You can't put stickers over a logo.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MrZ

That's not the reason. The likely reason is because badges often get in the way of any signage that you put on the vehicle. I see Hiace vans with the Toyota logo removed from the rear for this same reason. You can't put stickers over a logo.

Nope, it was specifically THAT reason, we had to take them off the hubcaps and the front grille (and make up a new badge for the front grille)

Its standard to remove the rear badge on emergency vehicles, but not the one on the grille or the hubcaps.

It was a Mercedes Sprinter, there ain't no signage that covers the front grille and hubcaps.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Nope, it was specifically THAT reason, we had to take them off the hubcaps and the front grille (and make up a new badge for the front grille)

Its standard to remove the rear badge on emergency vehicles, but not the one on the grille or the hubcaps.

It was a Mercedes Sprinter, there ain't no signage that covers the front grille and hubcaps.

What badge went on the front grille ? Chev Bowtie? Star of David?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What badge went on the front grille ? Chev Bowtie? Star of David?

Star of David

Nah it was a company badge, it looked silly thats for sure.

Happy to buy the best product but not happy to show their logo because of something that happened 70 odd years ago, hypocritical if you ask me.

[Spinner77]

hypocritical if you ask me

Hey, look on the bright side.

At least they won't send you to the Coburg clinic!

[castellan]

Originally Posted by kazawaki

What really ****** me of is the negative attention that the feds are copping.
They were doing there job,if they do not co-operate with other countries then guess what they will not co-operate with them and just watch the huge influx of drugs increase because there will be no heads up from other countrys police.
If telling other countrys means drug dealers get killed so be it.They were not juveniles and were aware of the penaltys,as for all these people saying they were reformed,did they all meet them ???? i dont think so its easy to be good after your busted.LEAVE THE COPPERS ALONE, never thought i would ever say that but there you go.

The only point about the feds is that one point, why did or how did they let them go, they were informed before hand.
And that's the whole point that must be addressed, and police work is all about just that ?
Or was there some type of government involvement that caused such a thing.

Any cop would be interested in knowing the details you know. (this is not cop bashing )

If the feds or who ever, can let people travel with drugs knowingly, well that's just wrong for a start.

It smells of corruption going on some where me thinks.