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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#122 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,441
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Many Australia mining companies and rare metal exporters are doing big deals with auto manufacturers as they ramp up their production of batteries in-house, sadly why are we not building battery plants here to value add and actually make greater profits...I'm assuming these battery production factories have great automated production lines and I'm sick of the "Australian wages are too high" argument....you can counter costs by increasing volume...
Last edited by Dr Smith; 17-10-2022 at 01:50 PM. |
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#123 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,354
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The problem is that it's true, like so many other on-costs. With 3-tiers of over-Government & with the unions in control of the economy it is not practical to manufacture anything in Australia.
Dr Terry |
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#124 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,052
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These days it would mostly be automated anyway, like when they closed down Ford Australia, how much was the labour cost of building a Falcon?
It's not like the 1950s with everything done by hand, most modern manufacturing environments you don't really have many people doing things by hand. Company I used to work for turned out more work in 2022 with 8 manufacturing staff than it did with 700 in the 1970s thanks to automation. The only country which doesn't bother with automation is third world ****holes like China where they have a huge human capital whose lives are worth nothing so it's not worth automating manual tasks. Australia has all the inputs required to make batteries, we just lack the brains upstairs to work out the politics side of it. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 17-10-2022 at 02:11 PM. |
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#125 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#126 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
Over-regulation just strangles setting up manufacturing here. |
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#127 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: nz
Posts: 1,846
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That is so true that's why infrastructure doesn't get built to many committees,,submissions, engineers reports ra ra ra ra by the time they figure out what they're doing the cost has blown out ......then they have to do another feasibility study......yawn
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#128 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,637
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Quote:
Baldrick, I have a very, very, very cunning plan. Baldrick: Is it as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning. Blackadder: Yes it is. Baldrick: Hmm... that's cunning.
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#129 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,285
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On the up side, Aussies have developed a better way to mine and refine lithium
that’s also reduced the cost, sounds like us? Quote:
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#130 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,530
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It's not so much the over regulation here, but the lack of regulation overseas. OHS&W isn't all bad. Neither are the laws stopping employer exploitation.
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#131 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: nz
Posts: 1,846
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Quote:
In the old days you were ridiculed so much by your work mates you either learnt or had a change in career
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Fgx xr8 winter white manual, gone but not forgotten 22 mitsubishi outlander XLS PHEV Au11 fairmont Ghia ported gt40p heads ,comp springs and locks Xe 264 cam,custom intake,pacemaker tri y headers 524nm torque 19 Triton GSXR manual |
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#132 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
My old man gave up on delivering goods to construction sites because of the BS he had to go through. The worst was the railway level crossing removal. He'd rock up to a site where he was told to, put on his safety boots and fluro vest; nope sorry, wrong vest, needs to be orange with a cross. Next time he rocks, sorry needs to be yellow with horizontal stripes. I kid you not. The one that really ****ed him off was, again getting to site, about to unload with the crane on the truck, nope, sorry you're not union you cannot operate your crane truck, you'll have to do it by hand. He is licensed to operate a crane truck. There are tons of other stories. I am all for OH&S (used to be office rep for my previous role) but some of it is just time wasting.
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#133 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,201
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Quote:
I also find it ironic that people here are complaining about there being too much regulation, when that very same regulation provides you with a greater opportunity to return home from work at the end of the day in the same condition that you arrived in, protects the environment that we all live in without fear of being harmed from those who may not otherwise give a care about the effects they have on it, you or your family, provides you a base salary that should (granted, it may not be the right balance atm) provide you with a means to be able to survive, etc, etc. Yes, it's a hard line to walk, but those regulations actually provide you with a benefit. Yes, too much of it can be stifling, but where is the right balance point?
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Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#134 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: nz
Posts: 1,846
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Quote:
Until down under sorts out these inefficiencies we will never be competitive in building battery plants or whatever
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#135 | |||
T3/Sprint8
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,375
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Quote:
In some case's yes, don't get upset with me Fox. The workforce long before knew their duty of care and doing the right thing for themselves and employers, nothing is perfect but productivity went forwards. Its trained a % of employees they have no common sense who exploit this and don't get on with the job due to some stoopid rules that shake your head plus the added costs it has incurred how would any organisation consider building a new plant, buy inventory/machinery, staff it and be price competitive. Unions, OH&S is the next one ![]() The 3 big OE's packed up said it all even with all the grant support. Sorry so off topic.
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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#136 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
https://fordauthority.com/2022/10/20...evealed-video/ ![]() |
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#138 | |||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,840
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Quote:
Potentially, if they were vertically integrated, they could ramp up! |
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#139 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,441
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So how come South Korea, a high wage country can build ships for the world and stay competitive and they're unionised.
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#140 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,052
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Quote:
Germany as well but they're playing politics with currency manipulation. They've got global export markets though. |
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#141 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,530
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Quote:
A quick google brought up this article https://biz30.timedoctor.com/average...n-south-korea/ Scroll down and it suggests the ave monthly wage in factory/manufacturing is the equivalent to less than $4k/month Australian dollars. Are you trying to tell me auto manufacturing here was on less than $50k/yr? Whichever way you try to spin it, wages are high in this country. Obviously there are many factors to this, and a few drivers pushing everything up but I wouldn't be comparing our wages to south Korea. Minimum wage is now over $20hr here. Many 'trades' wouldn't get out of bed for double that. Likely closer to triple. Wages are definitely a factor in the cost of doing business in Australia.
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#142 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
Not so much for Thailand, China etc, but to the other big auto manufacturing nations the wages were similar. It simply was not the big issue so many uninformed people try to make out. There are so many other input costs that put wages in the shade. The biggest issue that eventually made local production unviable was the lack of capacity. The huge new mega plants that can pump out 200,000-300,000 cars a year, made the 100,000 max production of Broady too expensive per vehicle. Spreading the input costs over double or triple the amount of cars per year is a massive saving per vehicle. It was even more of a killer once production numbers dropped off. Thats when they really started bleeding. |
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#143 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,048
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A 2013 report comparing the Canadian and Australian auto industries showed that the Canadians could build 4 times more vehicles per assembly worker, 3 times more vehicles per total workers, and value-added nearly double $ per total worker. Wages might only have been 6%, but when an automaker has other plants where that input is 2-3%, we stand out for all the wrong reasons.
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#144 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,285
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I saw the discussion but you could tell that ford works in silos and only concedes things aren’t good once the go really bad and can’t hide it. Battery supply would have been a problem for them even if they only made hybrids, BEVs just underscore how unprepared Ford was for main production this early…….
Last edited by jpd80; 19-10-2022 at 02:16 PM. |
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#145 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,441
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Quote:
JIT supply, single supplier of critical components, political stability, cheap energy, natural disasters, pandemics.....these are considerations that many cost accountants didn't consider... |
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#146 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,048
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Yes, but how much you gain through economy of scale is dependent on a lot of factors. How does a 500k plant deliver that volume compared to a 100k plant? By having 5 times as many lines typically. So there is still a similar labour input per line. The cost savings come more from amortising R&D and tooling costs over larger volumes, and logistical savings. You only have a bigger factory if you can move that sort of volume, nobody ever wanted what we made in any meaningful sense.
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#147 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
But how much money are the companies spending on automation to reduce wages by reducing head count? That also was a factor, and when these bigger or newer plants can build many more cars per year, those robot costs reduce considerably per car. Ford Australia never had the money to spend on high levels of automation when they were only building low numbers of cars in relation to the big plants overseas. I'll repeat, wages were not the killer of australian manufacturing. It was but a tiny factor in a huge number of other, more important costs. |
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#148 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,637
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Just went past Subaru in Geelong, padlocked front gate, a few cars in yard, couldn't see a human inside. Is this the Walking Dead alternate reality?
Is this all car yards? Is there a disturbance in the matrix?
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#149 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,637
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Quote:
Me: "Sampling" HOMOH&S: "You can't do that." Me: "Why not?" HOMOH&S: "You haven't done our ladder induction. I will sample it." Me: "OK." <HOMOH&S climbs ladder> Me: "You can't sample that." HOMOH&S: "Why not?" Me: "You haven't done our sampling induction."
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#150 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,637
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These countries have massive support set in policy of having heavy industry, I wouldn't be surprised if Korea has something like the Japanese Zaibatsu, the huge conglomerates. Policy set into government, law, currency manipulation, etc etc When BMW was in dire straits in the early 1950s, the other manufacturers got together to save it, fund it for new product (2002) and not let it fail. I'd love to see Australia doing this, but after waiting so long and seeing such stupidity Button Plan -> Hockey taunting Holden; it's easier now to just go down the beach and have a surf.
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