FPV outsells HSV in jan '09 - Page 4

4Vman · 11-02-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Theres two I6T models, versus five V8 models
Then theres a new V8 special edition every other year (5th Anniversary, 40th, Cobra)

Hell im sure if you could get a Super Tornado, F6-E, F6-P, 5th Anniversary F6, etc etxc the sales would be far from being lop sided.

Wouldnt make any difference IMO.. why do you think FPV don't offer those models? market research... it would just spread the current F6 sales out thinner over the extra models. Force 6 and F6 R spec even F6X proved there isnt the extended market for I6T powered cars, although a F6E might steal some sales from the G6ET, even if the Force 6 was an adjunct failure..

FPV8U · 11-02-2009, 08:32 PM

I know plenty of F6 & XR6T owners who would be in a Falcon or Commodore V8 if it wern't for that option being there.

The F6 apeals to me, if i had to choose i can't say what i'd pick between a F6 & GT, neither would a close friend of mine driving a BF XR8, his dad owns a Typhoon and that was made over a Falcon V8.

Yes the F6 has got some EVO/STi/??? drivers over from the land of the rising sun, but the majority is a bit of a stretch when alot of F6 drivers on here either drove a XR6T, XR8 or GT..

XR Martin · 11-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wouldnt make any difference IMO.. why do you think FPV don't offer those models? market research... it would just spread the current F6 sales out thinner over the extra models. Force 6 and F6 R spec even F6X proved there isnt the extended market for I6T powered cars, although a F6E might steal some sales from the G6ET, even if the Force 6 was an adjunct failure..

And so was the Force 8...

**Grunter** · 12-02-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wouldnt make any difference IMO.. why do you think FPV don't offer those models? market research... it would just spread the current F6 sales out thinner over the extra models. Force 6 and F6 R spec even F6X proved there isnt the extended market for I6T powered cars, although a F6E might steal some sales from the G6ET, even if the Force 6 was an adjunct failure..

If FPV had performed market research then the F6X either wouldn't exist, or at the very least would have steered them towards making it look more like a FPV vehicle.

I believe that the Force 6 and F6 R Spec, should also not have existed. The F6 doesn't have the history of the GT to piggyback other models off and , as has been seen, doesn't convert well into other models. IMO I believe they would have been well served by dishing out available options so customers can have more flexibilty in what goes into their car. For example, on top of what they have now, have a deleted wing or boot lip option, a premium leather seat option ala the GT-E, sport seats ala the GT-P, R-Spec suspension option, different trim inserts (wood, carbon, black), etc. All off these are currently available and would allow purchases of a F6 the scope to option for a toned down model, or a more "sport" orientated, or something in between, all from a parts bin in which these exist.

Whitey-AMG · 12-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wouldnt make any difference IMO.. why do you think FPV don't offer those models? market research... it would just spread the current F6 sales out thinner over the extra models. Force 6 and F6 R spec even F6X proved there isnt the extended market for I6T powered cars, although a F6E might steal some sales from the G6ET, even if the Force 6 was an adjunct failure..

The telling factor is that most punters will buy an FPV for its performance image........most people want the wings and stripes and batman utility belt that comes with these cars. The GT and F6 fit the bill perfectly.........the other variants simply do not. In fact , I reckon if there was an even further stripped down version of the GT and F6 it would probably sell more.........Imagine the F6 and GT R spec variants were actually REAL track oriented cars..........ala.......racing buckets seats.........no stereo / audio option , lighter racing wheels with street legal racing rubber , no interior trim etc etc with a weight saving of 100Kg approx........I recon it would have been a killer for sales. F6 / GT Superleggera.

GTE / Force 6 , Force 8 , F6X are not PERFORMANCE oriented vehicles by intent........it shows in the exterior design , interior appointments and marketing........so why the hell would FPV buyers opt for a GTE instead of GT when they are looking for a performance car......in all its facets. In fact , it also becomes apparent why the GTP isn't opted for instead of the GT.........most buyers are content with the fact that it is the same car minus the seats and brakes. You get the same experience and save big $$$$$ on your initial outlay. In fact I'd go so far as to say that the GT is seen out there as the rougher more raw performance product and the GTP is seen as the luxo version instead of the HIGHER PERFORMANCE version. Misinterpretation that FPV made here is that the initial investment in the GTP should not have gone on brakes / seats and electric pedals.........it should have gone on some additional ECU and exhaust tweaks to give the GTP 15 - 20 Kw more BADGE cred.

I wonder what would have transpired if FORD had marketed the Force8 and Force6......maybe reduced the Kw count by 10 to keep the FPV punters happy.......but market the products as PREMIUM FORD and NOT FPV. No FPV badges , no FPV trinkets........just pure FORD......and cut the price accordingly ?????

The other telling factor is the general FPV / HSV buyer demographic......for the most part.........are BUDGET conscious buyers. They are more likely to option down on a product. Performance on a BUDGET. Unlike an AMG / Porsche/ BMW M spec buyer that may very well option UP on brakes , interior trim etc etc. I think FPV and HSV buyers are a difficult market to sell to and manufacture to in that respect. FPV buyers are more likely to spend in the aftermarket over many many years rather than on the initial Factory purchase.

F6X is an anomaly altogether........good on FPV for trying, but it just misses the mark altogether. I don't think anyone at FPV / FORD or on here can explain exactly its intent or why it is a more astute buy than the TTG ???

Nikked · 12-02-2009, 11:32 AM

Why is there an school yard argument over the F6 and GT anyway?

That said, the GT's sales are bolsted by history of the nameplate, not just because it has a V8.

Also, the fact that its one of the few V8 opions for the falcon aswell.

Gas N Go · 12-02-2009, 11:57 AM

I love both, and if they both help keep ford afloat all the better. One thing which im not sure about or has been overlooked by myself or not mentioned is this: Jump in a V8, turn the igniton, press firmly on the accelerator and listen to that sweet sweet sound of a V8. Hey its why i keep buying them. Driving pleasure comes in many forms not just performance. My first v8 was a 253 slug which i sill miss to this day, any v8 at high revs with a great exhaust cant be beaten, but thats just my opinion.

T3ts50 · 12-02-2009, 12:23 PM

Could it be that more people know what a GT is than an F6. My dad is a perfect example of someone who doesnt go into these forums, who doesnt read Motor or Wheels, but got a GT cause he doesnt know what an F6 is.

**Polyal** · 12-02-2009, 12:56 PM

If FPV are still around in 10-20 years I think you will find that the above halo effect of the GT will be gone if something is not done soon. The GT is primarily living on people from the 60/70's and 80's (well, the 80's people are getting them now incase Ford drops the V8 again..LOL)

The F6 in comparison is a very new concept/model for Ford, and its done very well so far so it should only get better.

Both cars are horn, id take one of each, share with the wifey and alternate each month

4Vman · 12-02-2009, 01:06 PM

Allot of people are writing the GT and V8 engine platform off as "old" and "dated" (despite its strong continued sales relative to the F6) but what if the new V8 is light years ahead of the Boss and I6T in terms of technology and has a forced induction option?? The tables will turn real quick and it might be bye bye I6T and F6....

Corzza · 12-02-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

Its not much to brag about i know.
But i found it a good article to read.

Thanks for this info!!

SpoolMan · 12-02-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive long believed FPV have tapped into a different market segment and demographic with the F6, i think the majority of F6 owners would be driving something Japanese if it wasnt for the F6, they arent V8 customers anyway, F6 has been largely incremental business for FPV..
Yes i know some have swapped from a V8 to te F6, but this is a Ford enthusiasts forum... its not a true reflection of the wider world...

Stil doesnt explain the I6Ts poor sales showing V V8's though does it.

Bored @ work looking for your entertainment this would confirm what most already know, another quality post with no substance, you really have no idea, do you own a FPV.
Best look out some of your Clevo mates are looking to buy an F6.

After already owning a Boss, if there was no F6 your right I wouldn't be buying a GT.
I would buy a Chrysler SRT or HSV, I pay for my own cars not my boss.
Dollar for same dollar GT 690 - F6 550.
F6, is 99% the choice for every car performance test when pinned against manufacturers best performance vehicle in a heads up test.
Performance testing F6 give FPV its creditably.
.
http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=3908
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ULmb...eature=related
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7njW...eature=related

F6 sales help keep FPV in the game.

4Vman · 12-02-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Bored @ work looking for your entertainment this would confirm what most already know, another quality post with no substance, you really have no idea, do you own a FPV.
Best look out some of your Clevo mates are looking to buy an F6.

After already owning a Boss, if there was no F6 your right I wouldn't be buying a GT.
I would buy a Chrysler SRT or HSV, I pay for my own cars not my boss.
Dollar for same dollar GT 690 - F6 550.
F6, is 99% the choice for every car performance test when pinned against manufacturers best performance vehicle in a heads up test.
Performance testing F6 give FPV its creditably.
.

Wow, thanks for not reading what i've said properly and then taking it out of context...

Ive never said the F6 wasn't the best performer in terms of outright "performance", ive never said V8 owners havent bought F6's, what i have intimated was its been a success for FPV in that it's attracted incremental sales from other non traditional markets like the turbo brigade....
What i have also said is the F6 is the best Australian made performance sedan, HOWEVER... despite all this its just not the best seller, and doesn't appear to be making any inroads on the GT range or HSV.. which is a problem in itself
If FPV has aspirations to beat HSV and make a substantial profit doing it then hopefully the next V8 will cover both bases and do it well, because IMO the F6 just isn't attractive enough (despite its obvious performance advantages) to get it done.....
Like it or not the vast majority of Australian performance consumers STILL prefer V8's. If you don't believe me then add up the sales of Chrysler, HSV and FPV V8 v I6T....
If the Next FPV V8 has a forced induction option it will cover both bases... most can see the writing on the wall if that's the case...

SpoolMan · 12-02-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wow, thanks for not reading what i've said properly and then taking it out of context...

Read over your own posts, you can Warney it any way you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

i think the majority of F6 owners would be driving something Japanese if it wasnt for the F6, they arent V8 customers anyway,

Obviously the statement you missed to clarify, I shall research this for you best I can through this Forum and another one...
Then perhaps you can show me where your research/statement came from..

My boss is calling..

CSV_LS1 · 12-02-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive long believed FPV have tapped into a different market segment and demographic with the F6, i think the majority of F6 owners would be driving something Japanese if it wasnt for the F6, they arent V8 customers anyway..

Did you know 80% of studies are made up?..

**Falcon Coupe** · 12-02-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

Did you know 80% of studies are made up?..

Of course, Studies have shown this to be fact.

vztrt · 12-02-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What i have also said is the F6 is the best Australian made performance sedan, HOWEVER... despite all this its just not the best seller, and doesn't appear to be making any inroads on the GT range or HSV.. which is a problem in itself

I wouldn't say that. If the F6 isn't making inroads into the V8 market it means that it would be taking sales from another manufacturer which is good for FPV.
Like spoolman said if there was no F6 he would be buying a car from another manufacturer (as he doesn't see the value in buying a GT). So the F6 is keeping people at FPV.
The fact that FPV offers a V8 and the I6T is good for them as some people wont drive the BOSS and some people don't really want an 6T. It also allows them to change their model line up quicker to suit a changing market.

CSV_LS1 · 12-02-2009, 03:20 PM

If the Typhoon wasn't available i would have bought an HSV R8. So that's one sale lost.

Whitey-AMG · 12-02-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSV_LS1

If the Typhoon wasn't available i would have bought an HSV R8. So that's one sale lost.

Fair nuff !

I guess if it was the other way round........and the Typhoon was the only FPV offering........there'd also be stacks more Clubbies on the road as well !!

Lucky FPV offer both 8 and 6 then hey.........

snappy · 12-02-2009, 04:05 PM

Well the gt is imo opinion a emotional purchase (like buying a harley). To buy the gt over the f6 common sense cant be used .
If the gt had it over f6 in performance,handling and economy i would think the f6 would be just about dead and buried . I would doubt it would survive on emotional purchases only.
Hense my opinion is money is wasted devoleping the f6 .
As far as im concerned the f6x is laughable this thing should be bried to the hilt in luxury items to puchase over the terry turbo . Why one would buy a suv for performance,1/4 mile or racing is beyond me far to much power for street use and the car is not strong enough to tow the amount of weight that the motor is capable of pulling . The only reson one would buy i can think of is that they have to much money .

mrbaxr6t · 12-02-2009, 04:13 PM

4vman - I heard you the first time you said the v8s outsell the I6Ts - sheesh since when was this about which is the better seller, there are many highly emotive older retirees driving round in GT's cause they couldn't have one in the 70's/80's this is likely why the gts are outselling the I6ts which seems to be in the hands of the next generation, the younger are steering away from V8s the sounds of a tweaked/tuned turbo is every bit as horn as a V8.

snappy · 12-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

the younger are steering away from V8s the sounds of a tweaked/tuned turbo is every bit as horn as a V8

Turbo's are not new , New to ford yes but far from new tech.
In Australia V8 are more popular have and will be for years .

And it baffles me how a car that sneezes on a gear change can match the burble and roar of a 8.
Im still a young fella and the most common thing said about the f6 or i6t apart from they move is pity its not an 8 .(with fella's around my age 19-25) hell even 15 year old apprentices

Whitey-AMG · 12-02-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

4vman - I heard you the first time you said the v8s outsell the I6Ts - sheesh since when was this about which is the better seller, there are many highly emotive older retirees driving round in GT's cause they couldn't have one in the 70's/80's this is likely why the gts are outselling the I6ts which seems to be in the hands of the next generation, the younger are steering away from V8s the sounds of a tweaked/tuned turbo is every bit as horn as a V8.

Spot on............except for the last bit about the sound..personal tastes I guess.

Anyways......I wonder if the XR6T sales v XR8 sales follows the same trend as the F6 v GT sales ???

Methinks I see a stack load more XR6T's on the road than XR8 which would support the 6T preference in general...........but its FPV we're talking about here and there are still plenty of "younger" ( sub 40's....LOL ) people buying the GT.......maybe not brand new....but definitely second hand.

XRQTR · 12-02-2009, 06:22 PM

Well I can't wait till they introduce the hybrid, diesel turbo as well as the solar paneled cars to FPV, now this will really up the sales.

flappist · 12-02-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Well I can't wait till they introduce the hybrid, diesel turbo as well as the solar paneled cars to FPV, now this will really up the sales.

Only if it has stripes.........

XRQTR · 12-02-2009, 06:28 PM

And the GT-P seats, don't forget the GT-P seats

But the diesel turbo they should at least start looking into for the Terri if not the sedans, I am actually serious about that, Ford Aus are really lacking behind even HQ on that one.

Wally · 12-02-2009, 06:52 PM

What are the sales numbers of V8s versus Turbo Six for Falcons?

snappy · 12-02-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

What are the sales numbers of V8s versus Turbo Six for Falcons?

Would love to know myself . I assume you mean xr6t vs xr8 .

TS50 · 12-02-2009, 07:03 PM

Well I am a V8 man, but bought a F6 ute over a Pursuit or SP
I like the handling etc of the F6 over the P or SP
Personal opinion i guess
I still love my V8's ,and if i didnt still have my T3, perhaps i wouldnt hae gone the F6
The F6 is a great car, plenty of power, better handling, but misses the V8 burble
To me a sale to FPV is good, weather it be a V8 or I6T

Wally · 12-02-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

Would love to know myself . I assume you mean xr6t vs xr8 .

I guess so.

I'd also like to know what the leakage into the non FPV market is too. I'm wondering if the I6T is better received in the family models.