If this is a sign of trouble, then Ford Aus are in deep dodo - Page 4

fmc351 · 13-10-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Had a phone call from BMW servicing today, my new A pillar trim is in as is the new bonnet scoop. These will take about 2hrs total to replace, I mentioned I might be able to book the Mini in for friday. The service advisors first response was "that is excellent Mr Goodwin, we have a loan car available for you". Has anyone heard that response from a Ford dealer? I klnow that I have not. I even said thanks for the loan car but it will not be needed, so much service I get to knock some back. I am so happy, that 335 is looking more competitive for our next buy.

That was for a Mini right? The focus is closer to that, and the price you pay for a Focus compared to a Mini is what? You get what you pay for, and middle to upper end should be like that. How much of that 'service' is paid for in the initial price of the car? Nothing is free.

geckoGT · 13-10-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

That was for a Mini right? The focus is closer to that, and the price you pay for a Focus compared to a Mini is what? You get what you pay for, and middle to upper end should be like that. How much of that 'service' is paid for in the initial price of the car? Nothing is free.

$45,000 for a Focus XR5 and $49,000 for a Mini Cooper S with the options that I have. $4000 for extra options, more performance and better service, bargain

:

Scott · 13-10-2008, 06:16 PM

I wonder what sort of service Hyundai give based on the argument above? ps - I know the answer ;)

btw - http://www.hyundai.com.au/Warranty/default.aspx

edit - just for a laugh, go to ford.com.au and try to locate the warranty page..... then try it at hyundai.com.au

geckoGT · 13-10-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

I wonder what sort of service Hyundai give based on the argument above? ps - I know the answer ;)

btw - http://www.hyundai.com.au/Warranty/default.aspx

They all claim to have outstanding service by top level technicians, even Ford so nothing new there. What I did notice was a 5yr unlimited km warranty, BMW offer three year unlimited km's, mitsubishi is 5 yr unlimited km's so ford is lagging behind.

TadKa · 13-10-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boss-290

You clearly have know idea what you're talking about.

I'm with him. It may be narrow minded of me but I have an inner hatred of anything Hyundia. The i30 may be a great car but it still looks rubbish and is nothing more than a whitegood.

Scott · 13-10-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

They all claim to have outstanding service by top level technicians, even Ford so nothing new there. What I did notice was a 5yr unlimited km warranty, BMW offer three year unlimited km's, mitsubishi is 5 yr unlimited km's so ford is lagging behind.

Sort of kills the "you get what you pay for argument" eh? I wonder if Ford would advertise that they can offer worse warranty because the cars are cheaper than BMW?

Smoke Pursuit · 13-10-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

What if they brand swap because they have had bad dealings with 4 Ford service departments, about 80% of the available service departments and 100% of all the individual franchises on the south side of Brisbane?

Had a phone call from BMW servicing today, my new A pillar trim is in as is the new bonnet scoop. These will take about 2hrs total to replace, I mentioned I might be able to book the Mini in for friday. The service advisors first response was "that is excellent Mr Goodwin, we have a loan car available for you". Has anyone heard that response from a Ford dealer? I klnow that I have not. I even said thanks for the loan car but it will not be needed, so much service I get to knock some back. I am so happy, that 335 is looking more competitive for our next buy.

They give me loan cars all the time, FPVs to :monkes:

Smoke Pursuit · 13-10-2008, 06:30 PM

The funny thing is that some of the sub franchises that RUN Ford and Holden dealers actually run European dealerships to!

Interesting!

fmc351 · 13-10-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Sort of kills the "you get what you pay for argument" eh? I wonder if Ford would advertise that they can offer worse warranty because the cars are cheaper than BMW?

Not really. Cheap here is not cheap in its home market. Im sure Fords could be much cheaper if Falcon production moves to Korea, or Aussies start working for the cost of rice.

Read Tadkas response, Hyundai had to set itself apart somehow.

Comparing the Aussie makers to either BMW (high end) or low wage states (Hyundai) is silly. Its apples and oranges. Mitsu had to do something to lift sales, and it didnt work anyway.

Whats Fords incentive again? Oh thats right, its been written here, and shown in poor performance in the market. And a lot of posts that dont seem happy with the service. I doubt it will work long term for them either.

Bossxr8 · 13-10-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

$45,000 for a Focus XR5 and $49,000 for a Mini Cooper S with the options that I have. $4000 for extra options, more performance and better service, bargain

:

Wrong, the XR5 Focus RRP is around 36k. Huge price difference, and the Mini is a smaller class of vehicle than the Focus too, so a Fiesta XR4 is a better comparo in size, and thats only about 25k I think. Mini's are ridiculously priced, they are a fashion item.

The next Fiesta ST/XR4 will have a 1.4 Turbo with 140 odd kw so it will compare quite well with the turbo 1.6 in the Cooper S.

geckoGT · 14-10-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wrong, the XR5 Focus RRP is around 36k. Huge price difference, and the Mini is a smaller class of vehicle than the Focus too, so a Fiesta XR4 is a better comparo in size, and thats only about 25k I think. Mini's are ridiculously priced, they are a fashion item.

The next Fiesta ST/XR4 will have a 1.4 Turbo with 140 odd kw so it will compare quite well with the turbo 1.6 in the Cooper S.

First off, classification of vehicle is a rather grey area. yes when you look at the Fiesta and Mini, they are a similar car due to the size, both small cars. The difference is when you are out looking for a hot performance hatch on the Australian market, Focus XR5 and Mini Cooper S are in the same class (both hot hatches). My point is there is the general classification for statistics purposes which is based on body shape, size and number of doors, but the buyer will classify cars according to what they are after, as we did.

We looked heavily into the hot hatch market which included VW Golf GTI, Mini Cooper S, Focus XR5, Mazda 3 MPS, WRX and HSV VXR. The Mini Cooper S was the winner for a number of reasons, more style than MPS and WRX, better equipped than Focus, better interior than GTI and better handling than VXR. All vehicles were of a comparable price.

When you talk hot hatches, at this stage the Fiesta XR4 (110kw, 190nm, 1090kg) does not compare with a Mini Cooper S (128kw, 240nm, 1130kg), in fact the mini compares more favourably with the Focus XR5 (166kw, 320nm, 1437kg). Now some will say the focus has more power and torque, you are right but the Mini is hauling a lot less weight. With its very low centre of gravity, minimal overhangs/wide track giving a wheel at each corner, the handling of the Mini is better, with the XR5 only having the advantage at high speed that can not be enjoyed every day. Regarding price difference between the 2, RRP for focus XR5 is $36,990, Mini Cooper S is $39,900. In my previous post I was referring to drive away for a Focus with leather and a mini with the options we have, we actually paid $42,500 for our Mini Cooper S, complete with JCW engine tuning kit (now 145kw, 260nm, 1130kg, I have no doubt it will flog a XR5 in every way now) as it was a demo. Additionally Mini offer factory backed performance enhancements that take the performance to a whole new level, an option not available on Focus. So for $2910 you get more creature comforts and better service, less servicing cost with the Mini's excellent CBS (condition based servicing, I got 30,000km before it asked me for a service, service cost $400) and much better resale, to me the Mini was a better package. The down side is it is a smaller car and the back seat really is only good for small kids or double amputees, but I wanted a 2 person performance car that will give me a thrill on tracks and twisty mountain roads.

If the new Fiesta XR4 produces the figures that are claimed, with equivalent vehicle dynamics and at similar or lesser price, then I will consider it equal but at this stage, in todays market, it does not.

As for the fashion item, only those that have not experienced the handling of even the Mini Cooper would call them a fashion item, those that have would openly class them as a cult car in every right, equal if not exceeding the cult status of XR6T/F6. Additionally if I enjoy my performance FPV (or XR5, XR4 or any Ford) on a track, FPV and Ford will reward me by voiding my warranty. Mini on the other hand regularly invite me to various race tracks for BMW drive days, warranty hassle free.

Some it up, in my selection criteria (therefore my classification according to my needs, not some magazine or statistics board), when we were in the market, at an equivalent price acrosss the board, we get much better service at BMW and that is why the 135 looks so attractive (among other reasons) over the likes of F6 for our specs of a more family orientated car with good performance and better fuel economy than a V8.

DanielXR8 · 14-10-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Had a phone call from BMW servicing today, my new A pillar trim is in as is the new bonnet scoop. These will take about 2hrs total to replace, I mentioned I might be able to book the Mini in for friday. The service advisors first response was "that is excellent Mr Goodwin, we have a loan car available for you". Has anyone heard that response from a Ford dealer?

You really need to forewarn people when you recount stories like that. If I had not been sitting down already, I could have been hurt from the fall.

Dan

fmc351 · 14-10-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

First off, classification of vehicle is a rather grey area. yes when you look at the Fiesta and Mini, they are a similar car due to the size, both small cars. The difference is when you are out looking for a hot performance hatch on the Australian market, Focus XR5 and Mini Cooper S are in the same class (both hot hatches). My point is there is the general classification for statistics purposes which is based on body shape, size and number of doors, but the buyer will classify cars according to what they are after, as we did.
.

Yeah but Im the one that brought it up. In general, the Mini is going to be much dearer than the 'closest' Ford. Which was the point i was making, I should have said Fiesta. If I paid $33k for a very basic Fiesta, I would expect excellent service with a lot of quality built into that price. If Im returning it under warranty, quality in that particular car seems questionable, so Id expect a level of service to correct it without hassle.

Im not sure how you think the Mini is not closer to the Fiesta with its 18kw difference, but is closer to the Focus with a 38kw difference. If youre going to round numbers, probably better to round to the closer one. The fact is, for slightly less money than the Mini, you get a more powerful Ford (on paper anyway), which was the point. There is a premium paid for the Mini, and Id expect something to come with that premium. Better power to weight ratios are part of design quality, and paid for in the price.

What you have just said is the Mini is a better car than the Focus, and thats why there is a premium on the price over the Fiesta, let alone almost a 10% price difference to the Focus.

What do you get for that price difference? Service and quality, you would hope at least.

geckoGT · 14-10-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Yeah but Im the one that brought it up. In general, the Mini is going to be much dearer than the 'closest' Ford. Which was the point i was making, I should have said Fiesta. If I paid $33k for a very basic Fiesta, I would expect excellent service with a lot of quality built into that price. If Im returning it under warranty, quality in that particular car seems questionable, so Id expect a level of service to correct it without hassle.

Im not sure how you think the Mini is not closer to the Fiesta with its 18kw difference, but is closer to the Focus with a 38kw difference. If youre going to round numbers, probably better to round to the closer one. The fact is, for slightly less money than the Mini, you get a more powerful Ford (on paper anyway), which was the point. There is a premium paid for the Mini, and Id expect something to come with that premium. Better power to weight ratios are part of design quality, and paid for in the price.

What you have just said is the Mini is a better car than the Focus, and thats why there is a premium on the price over the Fiesta, let alone almost a 10% price difference to the Focus.

What do you get for that price difference? Service and quality, you would hope at least.

Seems that in general you have missed my point but that does not matter in view of the subject of this thread.

You do however seem to agree that servicing is a valid reason that people select a car, it does not cost the service department anything to listen to me, treat me with respect and not contempt.

Time to get back on topic rather than individual car comparisons which was not the purpose of my original post.

4Vman · 14-10-2008, 08:34 PM

Mini piggybacks off the BMW service... effectively the premium service is subsidised by BMW sales.

geckoGT · 15-10-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mini piggybacks off the BMW service... effectively the premium service is subsidised by BMW sales.

Actually Mini is owned, designed and built by BMW. Many parts on Mini are also used on BMW vehicles so it is a BMW and therefore gets BMW service, uses BMW roadside assist etc. Look inside the doors of a Mini and it has BMW build plates.

Penelope Pitstop · 16-10-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

They give me loan cars all the time, FPVs to :monkes:

You are a cheeky bugger

Perana · 16-10-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Actually Mini is owned, designed and built by BMW. Many parts on Mini are also used on BMW vehicles so it is a BMW and therefore gets BMW service, uses BMW roadside assist etc. Look inside the doors of a Mini and it has BMW build plates.

In other words it IS a BMW!