Engine lineages – interesting history - Page 4

greenfoam · 18-02-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by last fairlane

Hi all keep this thread going
I just typed in Repco Brabham in Google and up cam pics of Jack and also an engine with Repco Brabham on the rocker cover also a Brabham Buick and who could forget the biggest piece of Crap Holdens made was a Brabham Torana of 1968 with a whole 75 HP although not really a Holden it was a HB Vauxhall Viva with the new name of Torana and had absolutely nothing in common with the "LJ" and so on Toranas that went to bathurst just the name

The LJ just has a longer nose to fit the holden 6 in, still the same basic Vauxhall car as far as I know (but evolved by Holden) : )

Rev28K · 18-02-2009, 06:40 PM

ZR1 LT5 was 32 valve dohc per bank. Designed by Lotus, but they had to use Chevys standard bore spacings which meant that the bore/stroke ratio was a bit out.

Re: Yamaha casting Fords alloy heads. IIRC Bill Tuckey's True Blue book said that it was Honda (not that I have anything against Yamaha they have done hot Toyota engines (and the SHO Taurus V6) for ages)

burnz · 18-02-2009, 06:46 PM

EA to AU not the intec (honda deseign) the head, but ford foundry the design.

Paxton · 18-02-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

EA to AU not the intec (honda deseign) the head, but ford foundry the design.

¿Qué?

Kieron · 18-02-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Re: Yamaha casting Fords alloy heads. IIRC Bill Tuckey's True Blue book said that it was Honda

Correct. The alloy head was a development of the iron xflow head but cast by Honda in Japan. From a very vague memory, the raw materials were shipped from Alcoa Australia's Pinjarra plant.

Other info, Ford Oz designed a DOHC head for the EA motor, was going to be on the 3.2 motor but only developed similar power to the 3.9 MPEFI so was never used.

Nikked · 18-02-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Ford designed and made by Yamaha wasn’t it?

Wrong

In 1977 Honda and ford designed it. Honda cast it in japan. Using alloy shipped from australia.

Nikked · 18-02-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

Correct. The alloy head was a development of the iron xflow head but cast by Honda in Japan. From a very vague memory, the raw materials were shipped from Alcoa Australia's Pinjarra plant.

Other info, Ford Oz designed a DOHC head for the EA motor, was going to be on the 3.2 motor but only developed similar power to the 3.9 MPEFI so was never used.

dang, beat me!

Funny it is, that xbgs351 was going on about misinformation....

jphanna · 18-02-2009, 07:50 PM

[QUOTE=xbgs351]We are sure getting into grandfather’s old axe territory here.

XBGS351....i recon if we were to have a pub brawl, you would win.
anyway i appreciate your input, especially the first comment...

**ebxr8240** · 18-02-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Van

different engine mate
f trucks had the 240 and 300 sixes
these were a canadian built engine not related to the small six

I'm sure when I worked for a builder years ago it had the 250 engine in it..
Not to be confused with D series engines..

What was said to me about Cat and Ford wasn't anything to do with thin wall casting...
Way back diesel engines where made in three separate sections..Like some motor bike engines today ..
They joined forces to design a mono block ..Where crankcase, cylinder section etc was in one cast block to make engines stronger and cheaper to make....

Without being pedantic I'm sure Toyota and other companies have copied .. Not exact copies .. Some of the old Celica motors look very similar to B series Austin motors.. With a little Roots thrown in.. Like the Humber 80 engine..

The old side valve Cadilac and Ford are similar too.. The Caddy has inlet and "exhaust" on centre side of heads..

Nikked · 18-02-2009, 08:04 PM

Cosworth Did build a Motor on the kent, a variation eventually found its way into the RS200.

The Famous YB cosworths are based on pinto blocks.

xbgs351 · 18-02-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Wrong

In 1977 Honda and ford designed it. Honda cast it in japan. Using alloy shipped from australia.

My recollection from when I was a kid was that it was Yamaha. I did a search and some sources stated Honda and others Yamaha. It wouldn't be the first time that a book was wrong, so that is why I asked it as a question rather than stating it as a fact.

xbgs351 · 18-02-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Cosworth Did build a Motor on the kent, a variation eventually found its way into the RS200.

The Famous YB cosworths are based on pinto blocks.

The BDT.

xbgs351 · 18-02-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I'm sure when I worked for a builder years ago it had the 250 engine in it..
Not to be confused with D series engines..

What was said to me about Cat and Ford wasn't anything to do with thin wall casting...
Way back diesel engines where made in three separate sections..Like some motor bike engines today ..
They joined forces to design a mono block ..Where crankcase, cylinder section etc was in one cast block to make engines stronger and cheaper to make....

Without being pedantic I'm sure Toyota and other companies have copied .. Not exact copies .. Some of the old Celica motors look very similar to B series Austin motors.. With a little Roots thrown in.. Like the Humber 80 engine..

The old side valve Cadilac and Ford are similar too.. The Caddy has inlet and "exhaust" on centre side of heads..

And they were started by petrol donkey engines that where started by a cord. Can you find any photos of these diesels?

The Toyota T series motors look nothing like the Austin B series motors.

**ebxr8240** · 18-02-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

And they were started by petrol donkey engines that where started by a cord. Can you find any photos of these diesels?

It was said by an old cat tech while working charter boat in Bay of Islands..
My bothers Cat motor at the time was 250 h.p V8 N/A.. Power was possibly restricted being being a charter boat, drive shaft size etc..

The Toyota T series motors look nothing like the Austin B series motors.

Easy... the 18RG does ..Very heavy motor..
I didn't mention T series??

last fairlane · 18-02-2009, 10:16 PM

I always thought it was Yamaha that did the work on the XD heads
just something in the back of my mind
This is getting very interesting even if the facts are just old memories and sometimes the memory fades a bit
thanks JP or starting it off
I do remember reading back in 1963 that there was a Falcon 170 CI with a super charger and fuel injection that was making 200 horse power some thing incredible from a motor that ran 100 HP in standard form
Also what about the Falcon of Pritchards in Bayswater in Melbourne that ran a Steam Engine
Just getting off track a bit here
Does anyone remember Norm Beechys S4 EH Holden they were always painted in a salmon (pinky) colour

xbgs351 · 18-02-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Easy... the 18RG does ..Very heavy motor..
I didn't mention T series??

You mentioned Celicas, and hence I assumed you meant the T series.

**ebxr8240** · 18-02-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

You mentioned Celicas, and hence I assumed you meant the T series.

Yea I swear the 1UZ is lighter than than original motor !!

aquahead2001 · 19-02-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

Correct. The alloy head was a development of the iron xflow head but cast by Honda in Japan. From a very vague memory, the raw materials were shipped from Alcoa Australia's Pinjarra plant.

Other info, Ford Oz designed a DOHC head for the EA motor, was going to be on the 3.2 motor but only developed similar power to the 3.9 MPEFI so was never used.

On both those comments, the alloy material was supplied by Alcoa Point Henry Smelter as it was the only smelter in Australia capable of producing Alloy material back then, all others at the time produced straight alumium un-alloyed. Also Pinjara is an Alumina refinery and not a smelter.

Finally, I had a neighbour who was the Product Engineering Engine Guru for Ford back in the EA development days. The DOHC Engine was going to be used as an XR engine but if you remember back then, the finances were pretty slim and the EA was a bucket of goop and every thing looked terminal.

I've always wondered how much of that engine was used as the basis for the Barra Engine...

Kieron · 19-02-2009, 04:31 PM

Thanks for the correction aquahead. I knew it was most definitely Honda that did the castings and the raw materials came from Alcoa Aus.

I had a black and white picture of an engineer working with the DOHC EA head somewhere, if I find it, i'll post it up. From memory, it used fingers/buckets and no bearing shells, (same as the SOHC head).

BlackLS · 19-02-2009, 05:14 PM

xbgs351 you really know your stuff!

**ebxr8240** · 19-02-2009, 10:22 PM

RS1800 was designed around the Kent engine.. Though much much stronger!!
The alloy block above is similar to 1600 engine..
I remember guys like Brian Hart, Don Halliday bros racing Comaro's around Bay Park at the mount..

His ATS spell was the start of a successful designing career, spent mostly in the US. Founded, and still head of Halliday Technologies and also BLIS technology, and now a engineer for Paul Newman's Champ Car Atlantic team. Also helps nephew Matt and daughter Liz in their respective series.

I bought his rally 1600 and latter 2000 Heatway rally engines..

Bossxr8 · 19-02-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquahead2001

On both those comments, the alloy material was supplied by Alcoa Point Henry Smelter as it was the only smelter in Australia capable of producing Alloy material back then, all others at the time produced straight alumium un-alloyed. Also Pinjara is an Alumina refinery and not a smelter.

Finally, I had a neighbour who was the Product Engineering Engine Guru for Ford back in the EA development days. The DOHC Engine was going to be used as an XR engine but if you remember back then, the finances were pretty slim and the EA was a bucket of goop and every thing looked terminal.

I've always wondered how much of that engine was used as the basis for the Barra Engine...

Twin cam EA engines were built as prototypes, but the SOHC engines made good power and were cheaper to make. DOHC would only have been used if the SOHC heads couldn't provide the power Ford wanted.

I was lucky enough to have a look around Fords engine lab a few years ago, and its pretty amazing how they use high speed cameras to view engine internals when they are running on the dyno. The rocker covers have a section removed and replaced with clear perspex, and the camera films what the rocker gear is doing. I think they may even be able to film the combustion chamber to see how the fuel air mix is burning.