Nats Accident

[greenman43]

Originally Posted by fasty

Here,here!!!!!!!!!!!!greenman are you a relo???? ROFLMAO

Well, certainly not one you'd admit to

Cheers,
Brian

[Choca]

Originally Posted by BLUPRNT XR8

Is that because you're a Camberrian??

No mate it's because I tend to want to make sense in a argument. Plus I can spell canberra

[Choca]

[QUOTE=Bucknaked]Summernats is an event where bogans gather, get drunk, enter their cars and yell out profanities at women. They are ugly individual's. I think they should be beaten around the head.
QUOTE]

Mate I love the nats I love the cars and the events, not everyone who goes to the summernats is a "bogan" I know that I certainly am not a "bogan"

Tiny is the mind of he who stereotypes.

[Choca]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Summernats is an event where bogans gather, get drunk, enter their cars and yell out profanities at women. They are ugly individual's. I think they should be beaten around the head.

Mate I love the nats I love the cars and the events, not everyone who goes to the summernats is a "bogan" I know that I certainly am not a "bogan"

Tiny is the mind of he who stereotypes.

[trick_xd]

Well i have been to 12 summernatts and i would have gone to this years as well if i could .. I have taken my Missers there last year and i told her i wanted her to DRESS DOWN so wear things like track pants hat that sort of thing .

What do you think you cop when you got a 20yo blonde good looking chick going past the burn out bar .. BLACK TOP BLACK TOP BLACK TOP .

I even had to remove a blocks hand from my girls arm as he would not let her pass unless she showed her titts . I showed him mine and held him till security got there AND a few ppl that i dont even know all said that this guy was doing it all day and they where sick of it .

NOW that 1 looser dose not deter me from taking my missers back there again and when the kids older i will take them as well.

[X ORSMXR]

Guys the only way to make this event great the way it once was is to BAN ALCOHOL, since l went up from year 2000 to 2004 it has gotten worse every year and the words keep coming out of Chicks mouth it won't be like last year (his qoute to my face) and as you can see yes it won't be the same but worse........

Or just get rid of the VB BAR.....

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by greenman43

2. Being told at the gate that I couldn't take any container larger than 600ml in. I offered to drink half a 1-litre bottle of water, but apparently that wasn't good enough for the fat sack of sht of a security guard. When I dropped it in the bin outside, I noticed it was full of the same thing (big water bottles). How friggin' irresponsible is this ? No doubt designed to further line the promoter's pockets, how about the poor b-stards who can barely scrape together the entry fee (not saying it's a problem for me), and then perhaps go without enough water for the rest of the day ? I'd like to see someone collapse for heat exhaustion, then sue the a.se off the promoter for deprivation of water (tough to prove, but wouldn't the media love that).

That's interesting... because when I walked in on Friday... I had a 3L bottle of Daily Juice orange juice with me (quite possibly the best beverage in the world...) carrying it out in the open... no bags or anything, just that bottle... and no one said a word. No one even approached me. I walked up to the security ticket guy, he tore my ticket, said have a nice day and that was that.

[KOUPE76]

Originally Posted by Choca

No mate it's because I tend to want to make sense in a argument. Plus I can spell canberra

Straight over your head mate :voldar02:
Never mind.
How does it go "Tiny is the mind of he who stereotypes" :the_finge

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by Choca

Mate I love the nats I love the cars and the events, not everyone who goes to the summernats is a "bogan" I know that I certainly am not a "bogan"

Tiny is the mind of he who stereotypes.

who cares, Car looked good Choca ;)
think i might enter mine next year!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Choca

Mate I love the nats I love the cars and the events, not everyone who goes to the summernats is a "bogan" I know that I certainly am not a "bogan"

Of course not everyone there would a bogan... but you have to admit events such as these would be a bogan magnet and therefore you are likely to have a lot of bogans at said event. I mean every fuly sik VN driver and his mate would want to go and try bag it up. :rolleyes:

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Yellow Fire

I doubt I'll change your mind, but if you compare the entrants going through scrutineering on Wednesday/Thursday with the bogans on Saturday night you may find they are different people.

All the entrants I know just roll their eyes at the bogans who rock up on Saturday morning.

Not everyone is like that. Theres a minority. Actually a lot of people are there just to be apart of the biggest motoring event. On the most part, well behaved and enjoy t for what it is. It's a select few that ruin it for everyone.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Summernats is an event where bogans gather, get drunk, enter their cars and yell out profanities at women. They are ugly individual's. I think they should be beaten around the head.

Unfortunally this is true.

I have found this thread covers two sepparate topics
1st. Child indured due to inexperience.
2nd. Format of Summernats.

1st - Very sad. It dampends the event and will not help young persons get into motor vehicles.
2nd - I haven't been in years but had noticed it's decline. The Saturday night show is not needed. If you need to see strippers at a car show, then you are going for the wrong reasons!
Alcohol is fine for those who can handle it!

[tickin]

Originally Posted by Choca

ИИИИ off! they were doing like 80 at the most and thier professionals, it was just an unfortunate accident, comments like yours hurts the summernats. Sh1t happens it was bad and I hope the 4 people are ok but I don't think it was anymore dangerous than the stunt dude going around the track on two wheels, did you see how close he was coming to the fence personally i would prefer the get a bump from a ute then have a corolla land on me.

No worries mate... See if you would be thinking the same if it was anyone in your family that was hit.!!!!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Unfortunally this is true.

I have found this thread covers two sepparate topics
1st. Child indured due to inexperience.
2nd. Format of Summernats.

1st - Very sad. It dampends the event and will not help young persons get into motor vehicles.
2nd - I haven't been in years but had noticed it's decline. The Saturday night show is not needed. If you need to see strippers at a car show, then you are going for the wrong reasons!
Alcohol is fine for those who can handle it!

I agree, i fail to see how having strippers and booze at a car show does anything to promote the event as "family friendly" or at the very least somewhere where EVERYONE feels safe or comfortable.
Alcohol and cars shouldnt be mixed.
This accident is sure to be investigated by worksafe, and if the event is insured against public liability then you can guarantee next year things will be significantly different, its the year 2006, not 1976.. Public safety should be number 1 priority and that includes sexist behaviour such as sexual harrasment.
The event orgainisers need to wake up and get in tune with the rest of the world on this kind of stuff..
Keep the Car related stuff but the alcohol and safety issues are too much to ignore.

[tickin]

Originally Posted by Choca

ИИИИ off! they were doing like 80 at the most and thier professionals, it was just an unfortunate accident, comments like yours hurts the summernats. Sh1t happens it was bad and I hope the 4 people are ok but I don't think it was anymore dangerous than the stunt dude going around the track on two wheels, did you see how close he was coming to the fence personally i would prefer the get a bump from a ute then have a corolla land on me.

Hey, im all for it.. I've been there for the last 4 or so years and i think its great.. Yes there are drunk people that call out to the girls, but the girls that go know this and as there certainly are alot that do "play up" to the drunken crowd..
But its like anywhere really... You can stay out of the trouble if you choose to do so...

"Sh1t happens"..!!!!! Whats with that????.. See if you would be thinking the same if it was anyone in your family that was hit.!!!!

[bprint xr8]

I tend to agree that you can stay out of trouble. Probably makes it hard for the first timers to know where not to go though. A lot of the contraversial events happen around the VB bar area so perhaps this could be made a seperate cruise area ie have a cruise track that allows you to turn off before the VB bar area if you dont want to be subject to that sort of behaviour.

Having said that I think that the danger times to cruise are friday night and after midday saturday. I cruised early friday arvo and sunday last year and had no issues at all.

As for alcohol - I dont think that should be able to buy JD slushies at 9am on your way to breakfast at the Tuff St Cafe!

Safety issues - all the stunts have previously been done on the grass area of the arena with some barriers. Dont know why they couldnt stick too that?

[HOON69]

http://www.canberracruises.com/Macle...ts%20Video.3gp
http://www.canberracruises.com/Macle...ts%20Video.avi


make up your own minds

mine is

safety was poor

drivers were pushing too fast and by reports were getting quicker n quicker everytime

chic henry/driver all to blame regardless this could of been avoided if common sense was taken.

[HOON69]

those links wont work no more i dont think
TRY THESE ONES
crash1
crashavi format

[HOON69]

best reply i've seen on the matter and wasn't even from this site..

I'm inclined to agree with what someone said earlier, broken legs and little kids being knocked unconscious and admitted to intensive care seem a trifle more than 'minor injuries' to me...

I am not going to turn this into a driver bashing post, as numerous people have pointed out accidents do happen. But what i can't fathom is people saying 'they knew the risks, they should have moved if they felt unsafe'.... to my way of thinking this is very bizarre logic.

There are a number of reasons why this doesn't gel with me, firstly a large proportion of the Summernats crowd would be newcomers to motorsport, at least in person. How can someone who has never experienced such an event be expected to judge what is, and what is not safe? Surely it is safe to assume that a total newcomer to motorsport spectating would see that he was allowed to spectate from a certain area and assume that all precautions had been taken and this was a 'safe' vantage point? My point is someone unfamiliar with a particular situation has no experience on which to judge whether the situation is unsafe, all they can do is trust the efforts of the organisers and safety officials, which seems reasonable enough to me.

Other people have pointed out that 'motorsport' is dangerous. Of course it is dangerous, that's not in question, but in almost all instances it is dangerous to the participants, not to the spectators. The drivers and other competitors make the decision whether or not to compete fully knowing the safety concerns and aspects, the onlookers have no choice but to trust the judgement of professionals who they have never met to ensure their safety, and in almost 100% of cases that trust is justified due to so much overkill in the safety aspects that in many cases it is almost impossible to be physically injured as a result of a crash.

The Melbourne Grand Prix a few years ago was an exceptional case where a wheel fit through a gap that was only fractions of an inch wider than the wheel and tyre itself, it was a mathematical anomoly. The chances of that ever happeing were millions upon millions to one, something like that will probably never happen again. From memory that part of the wall was damaged by a previous accident which allowed sufficient room for the tyre, anyway back to the Nats accidet.

In this situation, judging from the video footage it is extremely obvious that the safety 'precautions' were limited at best. It is generally a condition of admission to an event that your entry constitutes an acceptance of the conditions which waives responsibility on behalf of management, owners and so on should an accident or death occur. However should gross negligence be the cause of that accident or death, all the disclaimers in the world don't mean squat. To be covered by that condition of entry, organisers MUST demonstrate that a sufficient level of safety precautions, which would be adequate in all but the most unlikely of scenarios, be in place.

I haven't seen all the evidence here and probably never will, but judging by the footage, Summernats officials, organisers and the driver himself are going to have a significant amount of questions that they are going to be asked..... As well as any contractors (if contractors were used for venue set up) that may have been commissioned to ensure patron safety.

Basically all i am trying to say is that yes, accidents do happen. However an attendee to an event such is this is entitled to assume that a sufficient level of safety measures/equipment is in place to protect against all but the most unusual and unforseen incidents. Were there sufficient precautions in place here? That is going to be the question that is going to be asked a lot in the coming months.

Sadly that due to the media coverage and high profile nature of this incident, it may be that this is the last Summernats as we know it because from what i can ascertain, the event was skating on thin ice even before this incident. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope that the Nats isn't dead....

wish i could of said it like this as its so very true.

[spoonage]

The speed limit on that particular track is 30km/h. The CAPA ute was going an estimated 65km/h at point of control loss. CAPA, and the CAPA driver were both made well aware of this several times before participating in a drift event on that track. The ute also accelerated hard to prevent the sedan on the lower part of the course from overtaking them. In addition, the vehicles were meant to be drifting on the wet surface of the track for traction, however, at the point of control loss, the CAPA ute was travelling on the dry surface.

[Choca]

Originally Posted by spoonage

The speed limit on that particular track is 30km/h. The CAPA ute was going an estimated 65km/h at point of control loss. CAPA, and the CAPA driver were both made well aware of this several times before participating in a drift event on that track. The ute also accelerated hard to prevent the sedan on the lower part of the course from overtaking them. In addition, the vehicles were meant to be drifting on the wet surface of the track for traction, however, at the point of control loss, the CAPA ute was travelling on the dry surface.

30km/h damn the truck that wet down the track was going faster than that

[Abacus]

A few people in this thread have made suggested that “the accident wasn’t really that bad”, “it was only an accident”, and “like the ticket says, motor sports are dangerous”.

I think these guys are missing the point, which is that the accident was a reasonably foreseeable consequence of conducting the event with inadequate safeguards to protect the public.

Fortunately, what happened here didn’t result in death or life-threatening bodily injury. But it all too easily could have. Using Cyclone fencing as the primary and only barrier between the driving display and the spectators goes way beyond mere negligence, for which the organiser should, and no doubt will, be sued. It was also breathtakingly stupid.

Yes motor sports are dangerous. We all know that. And that is precisely WHY the use of Cyclone fencing to separate cars from spectators in this situation was entirely inappropriate. Go to any regular motor sport venue and observe the safety precautions that are put in place to protect spectators. They are in place for a reason. Motor sports are dangerous, and the organisers have a duty of care to protect the spectators.

The argument that the accident occurred due to a lack of ability on the part of only one of the three drivers is not, in any way, a valid defence. Further, questions such as why the organiser didn’t adequately vet the drivers before the event, or stop the event after two of the drivers lost control at an earlier stage, or stop the event when it became apparent that at least one of the drivers was attempting overtaking manoeuvres, in addition to drift manoeuvres, are also redundant.

The simple fact is that the organiser should have reasonably foreseen that a driver executing the manoeuvres that precipitated the accident could lose control. He had a duty of care to take steps that would prevent the spectators being injured by such a reasonably foreseeable loss of control. He didn’t do it

Further, there is no way that the organiser will be able to hide behind the puerile disclaimer printed on the back of the spectators’ entry tickets. A disclaimer warning that motor sports are dangerous, etc, etc, may provide some limited protection where the organiser has at least taken reasonable steps to prevent injury to the spectators. In this case, however, the organiser’s negligence was so extreme that the disclaimer will be worthless.

For that matter, I would be surprised if the organiser’s insurance company would cover any claims arising from this particular accident. The wilful negligence displayed by the organiser in this matter would, I imagine, give the insurer every right to walk away.

I’m ambivalent about whether the nats continue or not. I’ve never been there, but they look like they could be fun. However, if this accident causes the event to be discontinued, either by government intervention or prohibitive insurance costs, the organiser must accept 100% of the blame.

[Kingsley]

Here's a few news stories from the Nats accident today.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...1/s1543828.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...1/s1544235.htm

[Racecraft]

"SummerNats organiser Chic Henry said the only way the fence could have been safer was if concrete barriers were erected around the entire track - an option that was cost prohibitive."

Well well that sums it up prefectly. Lets see if the law suits are 'cost prohibitive' :(

[Mr. CVE]

Well I was there and had just finished driving my car around in the super cruise when it happened.
Was an unfortunate incident, and I do feel for the families involved. Also the driver I know is very distraught from the incident.
Nothing in life is 100% safe.
The problem is us the spectator.
The driver is asked to put on a show. if he goes soft, we call him a wimp, and say my mum can drift better, so he tries his best. Unfortunately he oversteps it.I am glad he was able to restrict it to the mimimal damge that he did, could have been a lot worse.
It is always bad when innocent people get hurt, but unfortunately we want to see these things and that is why we stand at the fence, if we wanted 100% safe we would watch the do some knitting !!
After all that I doubt we will see drifting at the nats again.
That is why I don't do it as I realise it takes heaps of driver skill to do.

And for the summernats, was a good event.
I almost think it has got a bit tame.
The alcohol and firework ban has worked and is doing well.
The people who can it, should actually go and see the whole event, not just the 2 bad bits the tv talk about.
this is my 14th or so summernats as an entrant, I will be back.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by v8capri

The alcohol and firework ban has worked and is doing well.

Where was the ban and who did it apply too? at 9am i saw people with beers in plastic cups staggering around the place. There were bars setup. JD truck was serving JD. The carlton truck had the bar, but i didn't them serve any beer, but who brings a portable bar to an event and leaves it dry?

[Abacus]

WTF???????????????

Originally Posted by v8capri

Nothing in life is 100% safe.
The problem is us the spectator.

No, the problem was not the spectators. One of the spectators was a 3yo kid. He nearly got killed. It was not his fault. It was the asshat organiser's fault.

As quoted in The Australian article, '...SummerNats organiser Chic Henry said the only way the fence could have been safer was if concrete barriers were erected around the entire track - an option that was cost prohibitive...."If we did that we wouldn't have the event," he said.'

At least, in this respect, he touches on the truth. The concrete barriers that he concedes would have made the event safe were not cost-effective for this particular event, and it should not have been run.

Originally Posted by v8capri

The driver is asked to put on a show. if he goes soft, we call him a wimp, and say my mum can drift better, so he tries his best. Unfortunately he oversteps it.I am glad he was able to restrict it to the mimimal damge that he did, could have been a lot worse.
It is always bad when innocent people get hurt, but unfortunately we want to see these things and that is why we stand at the fence, if we wanted 100% safe we would watch the do some knitting !!

Ridiculous. Just becaus people want to see an event does not mean they should unreasonably be placed at risk.

Oh, and as for the driver being able to "...restrict it to the mimimal damge that he did, could have been a lot worse...", what have you been smoking?? The driver was out of control. He nearly killed a bunch of people. The reason nobody died has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with good luck. He is "distraught", so he bloody well should be. Mind you, responsibility still lies with the organiser to make sure the drivers forming part of his attractions have the "heaps of driving skill" required to carry out their manouvres without creaming the patrons. Apparently both utes lost it earlier in the event. In light of the inadequate safety barriers, the event should have been canned at that point.

[Mr. CVE]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Where was the ban and who did it apply too? at 9am i saw people with beers in plastic cups staggering around the place. There were bars setup. JD truck was serving JD. The carlton truck had the bar, but i didn't them serve any beer, but who brings a portable bar to an event and leaves it dry?

If you had been to previous events, you would know that you used to be able to bring alcohol in from outside.
It was then that ppl would bring in truckloads of slabs and get smashed.
not like it is now where just a few get a bit drunk.
The event used to be a lot bigger and a bit scarier.

Much more tame now. I could almost take my wife again.

[vino3o2]

I think the organizers are going to have their hands full next year when it comes to paying thier insurance for the event...i hope it does'nt get shut down, Its a great event

[Mr. CVE]

Originally Posted by Abacus

WTF???????????????



No, the problem was not the spectators. One of the spectators was a 3yo kid. He nearly got killed. It was not his fault. It was the asshat organiser's fault.

As quoted in The Australian article, '...SummerNats organiser Chic Henry said the only way the fence could have been safer was if concrete barriers were erected around the entire track - an option that was cost prohibitive...."If we did that we wouldn't have the event," he said.'

At least, in this respect, he touches on the truth. The concrete barriers that he concedes would have made the event safe were not cost-effective for this particular event, and it should not have been run.



Ridiculous. Just becaus people want to see an event does not mean they should unreasonably be placed at risk.

Oh, and as for the driver being able to "...restrict it to the mimimal damge that he did, could have been a lot worse...", what have you been smoking?? The driver was out of control. He nearly killed a bunch of people. The reason nobody died has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with good luck. He is "distraught", so he bloody well should be. Mind you, responsibility still lies with the organiser to make sure the drivers forming part of his attractions have the "heaps of driving skill" required to carry out their manouvres without creaming the patrons. Apparently both utes lost it earlier in the event. In light of the inadequate safety barriers, the event should have been canned at that point.

Ohh you use the word apparently, that means you weren't there.
you say the event should have been canned at that point. so because of that there should be no grand champion ?? or no burnout comp ??
you think what you read in the papers is the whole truth don'y you.

oh you better not drive your car, you may have an accident and then we will have to whip you. and lock you up. :