Ford asks: What do you want in a car? And they're ready to listen - Page 3

vztrt · 16-04-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Thats my point, it did! Like how Holden invested in a niche vehicle like the Monaro, Ford invested in niche segment with a high-po turbo 6.

Ford AU is a niche manufacturer, its at its most successful when it actually starts acting like one.

Yet the Turbo made a profit, but the Monaro didn't.

What your asking a company with a limited budget is to spend it on a product that will fail, when the money could be better spent elsewhere.

ajxr8 · 16-04-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

resale value?? come on guys it dont make a lick of difference what the resale value of a monaro is to Holden as they see ZERO coin from the sale between two private parties. Why do people keep banging on about resale value I fail to see how it makes any difference to a car makers' bottom line.

well maybe people would be more inclined to purchase a new vehicle if it had half a chance of a decent resale price? instead of having bought a falcon or commodore and lost 20 grand after the first year

How does any one actually know if a falcon coupe would fail unless it was actually released, plus the monaro pretty much didnt even change its shape in its brief comeback, presonally i reckon if they were to release one it would have that section of the market sewn up what else would you buy a 370z?

SVD · 16-04-2010, 05:59 PM

Maybe...i'd like to see better interior plastics, increased fit and finish, some nicer wheels and a bit more power from the NA I6
Increased features from the G6E and G6ET
And most certainly exports, start exporting the damn Falcon it is a blisteringly good car!!!

SM1DY · 16-04-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yet the Turbo made a profit, but the Monaro didn't.

What your asking a company with a limited budget is to spend it on a product that will fail, when the money could be better spent elsewhere.

You don't only look at the dollars and cents of a project like the Monaro of even the W427. Though they may have made next to nothing for their investment, Holden get a great public image, and every 12 year old kid will put a W427 poster on his wall. When that kid grows up, he'll want a Holden, and buy the next best thing, a R8 or SS.

You have to look at the inadvertent success of a operation like this, you may find that it was more impressive than pure numbers would suggest.

Nikked · 16-04-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

You don't only look at the dollars and cents of a project like the Monaro of even the W427. Though they may have made next to nothing for their investment, Holden get a great public image, and every 12 year old kid will put a W427 poster on his wall. When that kid grows up, he'll want a Holden, and buy the next best thing, a R8 or SS.

You have to look at the inadvertent success of a operation like this, you may find that it was more impressive than pure numbers would suggest.

Ford kids had, and still have GTHO posters...

Brazen · 16-04-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yet the Turbo made a profit, but the Monaro didn't.

What your asking a company with a limited budget is to spend it on a product that will fail, when the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Did the Monaro lose money?

Has the turbo made a profit?

vztrt · 16-04-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

You don't only look at the dollars and cents of a project like the Monaro of even the W427. Though they may have made next to nothing for their investment, Holden get a great public image, and every 12 year old kid will put a W427 poster on his wall. When that kid grows up, he'll want a Holden, and buy the next best thing, a R8 or SS.

You have to look at the inadvertent success of a operation like this, you may find that it was more impressive than pure numbers would suggest.

No they'll be buying 4cyl hot hatches or 6T (this is where the trend is going).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Did the Monaro lose money?

Has the turbo made a profit?

Monaro would still be getting sold if it made money.
Ford wouldn't spend money redesigning the turbo engine if it wouldn't bring in a profit. They would have done minimal changes to it (like the wagon) or canned it altogether. The turbo Terri failed to be profitable and now its gone.

SM1DY · 16-04-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Ford kids had, and still have GTHO posters...

That may be the case, but I reckon far to many of them have R35 GTR's and that is going to filter down into sales for Nissan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

No they'll be buying 4cyl hot hatches or 6T (this is where the trend is going).

Lets hope not, that would be a tragedy. Brand loyalty has to be established at a young age.

vztrt · 16-04-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

Lets hope not, that would be a tragedy. Brand loyalty has to be established at a young age.

I hope it changes. But this is why I do see a market in the RS Focus.

SM1DY · 16-04-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

I hope it changes. But this is why I do see a market in the RS Focus.

Well, that may not be far from reality, because it seems on 'The Ford Story' site, every 2nd topic is about the Focus RS. So if this site serves its purpose we may be seeing the RS in a lot more markets.

ajxr8 · 16-04-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

No they'll be buying 4cyl hot hatches or 6T (this is where the trend is going).

only women would want to buy a 4cyl hot hatch, and while scrapping the turbo territory was a great idea it was a waste of time wouldnt you think that a coupe would be much less of a risk than that? and if they where to release one you would hope they would make it a monster eg make it lighter, faster, stiffer chassis, upgraded suspension and steering, also if you had the opportunity to buy a f6 coupe wouldn't that be atleast tempting?

Quote:

Ford kids had, and still have GTHO posters...

while this may be true its still a awesome car isnt it about time they caught up the times, a stock gtho now would get stomped by all of the fpv,hsv line up and a lot of ricers out there

vztrt · 16-04-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajxr8

only women would want to buy a 4cyl hot hatch, and while scrapping the turbo territory was a great idea it was a waste of time wouldnt you think that a coupe would be much less of a risk than that? and if they where to release one you would hope they would make it a monster eg make it lighter, faster, stiffer chassis, upgraded suspension and steering, also if you had the opportunity to buy a f6 coupe wouldn't that be atleast tempting?

I'm not against the coupe, I'm saying there isn't a business case for it. For a company like Ford its not even an option at the moment.

Also girls aren't the only ones buying hot hatchs. The XR5T has done very well and I see lots of blokes driving them.

Nikked · 16-04-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

That may be the case, but I reckon far to many of them have R35 GTR's and that is going to filter down into sales for Nissan.
.

Hence the need for a modern "GTHO"

Franco Cozzo · 16-04-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Ford kids had, and still have GTHO posters...

Except these days its 1 Ford kid for every 20 Holden ones. Hell you'll find these days its all about Nissan Silvia's, Toyota Supras, Mitsubishi EVOs with the youngings now.

SVD · 17-04-2010, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Except these days its 1 Ford kid for every 20 Holden ones. Hell you'll find these days its all about Nissan Silvia's, Toyota Supras, Mitsubishi EVOs with the youngings now.

and it's pretty obvious as to why...
they all wanna be siiick kent drifters etc....
When you look at what gets done to those models over seas etc... its no surprise, what do kids in Australia get to look forward too in the way of modified locals...
Pox *** dero driven dailies that cop poor fitting wheels, tacky looking kits unless its done as a FPV knock-off crap boxes mostly...

how can you build brand loyalty when the brand doesn't inspire anything other then repetitiveness...

For the Jap makes, it is their aftermarket/tuning support/models that make kids wanna have one.

Most drifters Slide an S chassis Nissan, the Supra was elevated to cult status thanks to the Top Secret 300, the Evo's are known as track weapons with superb handling and power etc....

The best we have to look forward too are cars modified by owners not by shops, Fords performance division (FPV) is nothing compared to those that the Japs have (Nismo, TRD, Ralliart etc...) i think that is another issue, there isn't anything massively special about our special models... the body kits aren't anything special nor really functional, the wheels don't come from a Brand name (BBS, Volk, etc...) and the interiors are overall bland and don't make you feel like you are in a performance car.

Ford needs some Image cars!!! such as the Predator and ******** like that even a proper limited run GT like the EL/EB GT's were, something that you can tell is special, Bring out a Bilstein Touring Pack G6E/G8E with better suspension for a more of a Touring car feel with a Special interior not just the stock one retrimmed(chuck some nice leather recaro's in and a bucket rear seat for two!), Different distinctive wheels and an understated body kit!!!

Make me want the car, Make me drool over it's lines and it's looks! Make me feel like im in a Special Car because i've forked out 80k+ and make it so not every tom dick and harry can have a look alike but doing unique panels and not just stick on bumpers! Make me want your aggressive and understated car and not the competitions!

chevypower · 17-04-2010, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

every 12 year old kid will put a W427 poster on his wall. When that kid grows up, he'll want a Holden

No, that is if he doesn't grow up. If he does grow up, he will get the Ford

Bossxr8 · 17-04-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

Lets hope not, that would be a tragedy. Brand loyalty has to be established at a young age.

Hence why Ford are pushing the Fiesta so hard to attract young people. They know whatever success the Fiesta has with young buyers will help sell Falcons and Territorys down the track when they grow up and have families. They are so far happy with the level of interest it has attracted.

79raven · 17-04-2010, 10:09 PM

Stick with the in line 6 and the large 8's and run straight gas. Well designed they should get heaps of power out of a "family car" and also great economy, and cheap to run. We red blooded australian drivers dont want some chinese noodle box but a car that we can drive the family around in comfortably and when the kids are away, well Daddys going to play. Yes fuel is dear and gas aint cheap too but me personally you can stick your rice cookers up your behind and Hybrid is a load of dogs tit. How much the battery replacements cost?????? Yeh REALLY worth it

DanielXR8 · 17-04-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF_302

Umm, i would like Falcon to outsell Commodore, but thats not really up to Ford sadly, I would like to see the F-truck back here, also hurry up and put a Diesel in the Territory

I think you would be suprised what a new dealer network and a genuine commitment by Ford Aust to quality customer service and quality processes (including recalls when required) could do for Falcon. Holden is far from the only problem for Falcons success and its been that way for years.

Dan

fat289 · 18-04-2010, 12:33 PM

Ford is " WAY " to conservative !!!!!!!!!!!
Better marketing & branding of Ford products - holden kicks our *** unfortunatly
Falcon exports - USA etc , I have spoken to plenty of our US friends & their ****ed that they can't get a Falcon RWD 4door V8 sedan - They " WANT " XR8's & FPV's

Brazen · 18-04-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Monaro would still be getting sold if it made money.
Ford wouldn't spend money redesigning the turbo engine if it wouldn't bring in a profit. They would have done minimal changes to it (like the wagon) or canned it altogether. The turbo Terri failed to be profitable and now its gone.

Monaro would still not be getting sold even if it was profitable if there was no funds to develop a new one. Many profitable cars die all the time. Remember the Coupe 60? There was serious thoughts about making a new one, but Holden completely engineering and designing the Chevy Camaro probably meant it was pointless this time round to create two coupes.

vztrt · 18-04-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Monaro would still not be getting sold even if it was profitable if there was no funds to develop a new one. Many profitable cars die all the time. Remember the Coupe 60? There was serious thoughts about making a new one, but Holden completely engineering and designing the Chevy Camaro probably meant it was pointless this time round to create two coupes.

Sure it wouldn't, I sure Holden loves to get rid of profitable cars....if coupes were profitable you would be able to buy one. Even if it was one from the US their would be a business case to support RHD for us.

jpd80 · 18-04-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The Monaro had cost just under 60 million to develop.

And yet Holden couldn't get a VE Monaro or RHD Camaro,
perhaps that fan base was not as big as you imagine.

Nikked · 18-04-2010, 07:52 PM

the monaro didn't bring in many new customers, just people who had commodore sedans or utes...

irlewy86 · 19-04-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

the monaro didn't bring in many new customers, just people who had commodore sedans or utes...

Funny, Holden always banged on about how the Monaro brought customers back from the Germans. Guess in the long run it was only a fad.

vztrt · 19-04-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Funny, Holden always banged on about how the Monaro brought customers back from the Germans. Guess in the long run it was only a fad.

lol, the VE HSV was meant to be a German beater.

Nikked · 19-04-2010, 06:50 PM

Everything Holden builds is meant to be a German beater. Racists!

Bossxr8 · 19-04-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Funny, Holden always banged on about how the Monaro brought customers back from the Germans. Guess in the long run it was only a fad.

Thats the thing with Coupes, they are a fad. It has been proven with the original Monaro, XA-XC Coupes, Charger and new Monaro, where sales are strong initially and then drop off dramatically once the fad wears off. Hence why Ford will never build a coupe again, Holden may well do the same.

jpd80 · 19-04-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Thats the thing with Coupes, they are a fad. It has been proven with the original Monaro, XA-XC Coupes, Charger and new Monaro, where sales are strong initially and then drop off dramatically once the fad wears off. Hence why Ford will never build a coupe again, Holden may well do the same.

The sad fact was that Holden missed the personal coupe market in the USA,
they were too slow embracing the Monaro and getting it to market there in
2006 was plain ridiculous, it looked like it was, a 1990s coupe, ten years late.

They then repeated that mistake with the Pontiac G8 by trying to emulate the
success of the Chrysler 300c and Cadillac CTS. Unfortunately, they were five years late.

This is the problem chasing present markets, by the time you get going trying
to develop it, the North American market has usually moved on.

Not bagging Holden but they always seem to be late to the party with
exports, maybe Ford Aus is smarter to stay at home...

SM1DY · 19-04-2010, 07:43 PM

According to the The Ford Story site

Australians want a Ford coupe
Americans want a RWD Ford Sedan

What possible resolution could we come to?