Century Batteries

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I wonder what has happened; I have Supercharge in all my 5 cars and they usually last at least just one or two months past there warranty. I wonder how much the issues for these batteries, regardless of brand in question, is related to less miles on cars due to Covid and longer importation journeys time-wise and longer in transit storage periods (between date of manufacture and the actual retail sale) and other Covid related production and storage issues. As someone once said: "Most batteries don't die, they are murdered [by maltreatment] " per https://www.centurybatteries.ca/sing...y-are-murdered and https://baintech.com.au/keep-your-ba...-of-the-grave/ etc Perhaps Covid is a mass murderer in more than one way? It would be interesting to know how old some of these batteries were when purchased (the manufacturing date is usually stamped on the case albeit sometimes in a cryptic code). It is so easy to blame nearly everything on either Covid or the other evil, Putin but....

My habits of driving my GT have not changed at all since 2007, same with my other cars pre covid , So in my case I don't think Covid is the issue. The only car that would be affected in my case is my wife's car as she used to drive 120km / day five days a week and she has been working from home, but we sold her car for that reason.

I have been thinking if it is a matter of quality of resources?

With many battery resources getting used for solar battery systems and electric cars, may be manufacturers are compromising on the materials going into the batteries to keep the prices low(er).

More use/demand of resources for the above mentioned reasons would have to drive price up of said resources. May be they are cutting back on whatever makes the battery work and quality is suffering.

When I returned mine it almost seems that the guy dealing with battery returns is sick of dealing with it.

[bb_zetec]

Also i was taught early on in my automotive life to always check the cells and top up the water with demineralised back when most batteries were the maintenance type with caps.

Used to get a good life outta those...about 7 or 8 years.

I remember one old Falcon i had i never replaced the battery as long as i owned it, and it was an NRMA one that looked ancient, all i did was what i said above.

[Franco Cozzo]

Wonder if all the extra electronics that cars have these days could be another problem as well with parasitic loads on batteries while the car is off.

Notice with my Focus that it can't sit anywhere near as long as my Caprice before not wanting to start, Focus can sit about 2 weeks before it turns over too slowly, Caprice will sit for over a month and still fire up.

Focus has DIN75L and Caprice NS70 so they both have bigger batteries fitted than the factory fitments but even stock for stock same deal.

Could have something going on with the Focus electrically, the OE DIN65L batteries only lasted 12-18 months regardless of brand since the car was new, then when I put in a DIN85L, it lived for 5 years and I just replaced it because it was a bit old.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Wonder if all the extra electronics that cars have these days could be another problem as well with parasitic loads on batteries while the car is off.

Yes and no, my GT is the same GT where the original battery lasted from 2007 till two years ago. Nothing changed and it has eaten two batteries in two years since.

Read a lot of battery feed backs in the last few days.

Something has definitely changed in the last few years with batteries. Modern cars would have a higher demand no doubt about that, but there is more to this IMO. (putting tin foil hat on)

[arm79]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Yes and no, my GT is the same GT where the original battery lasted from 2007 till two years ago. Nothing changed and it has eaten two batteries in two years since.

I don't think Franco is referring to you here, just speaking generally.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

Also i was taught early on in my automotive life to always check the cells and top up the water with demineralised back when most batteries were the maintenance type with caps.

Used to get a good life outta those...about 7 or 8 years.

I remember one old Falcon i had i never replaced the battery as long as i owned it, and it was an NRMA one that looked ancient, all i did was what i said above.

First module when I was an apprentice was test and charge batteries, which I think was written 30 years before I started my apprenticeship

Anyone else here still hesitant to put batteries on concrete floors? Its the 'chicken soup fixes all' wives tale of the automotive industry, no one can explain whether it actually discharges/damages batteries but I still won't do it

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

When I returned mine it almost seems that the guy dealing with battery returns is sick of dealing with it.

I think its more the whole industry rather than specifically the battery returns, everyone in the game dreams about doing better jobs, like picking up rubbish on the side of freeways, cleaning graffiti or flipping burgers at Maccas

Curious to what brands off grid power installations use for flooded lead acid batteries, I vaguely remember a conversation with my Century rep that there was another brand under the same group, I thought they'd just use their industrial deep cycle range but it seems there's something else.

While more and more people are using lithium, I'm still hesitant to involve myself with that stuff when people ask about it.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Anyone else here still hesitant to put batteries on concrete floors? Its the 'chicken soup fixes all' wives tale of the automotive industry, no one can explain whether it actually discharges/damages batteries but I still won't do it

I reckon It's the ultimate "Urban Myth" & sit them on the shed Floor without a second thought Or any Issues..
However I had a Bloke who worked for Me for a bit over 7 Yrs who point blank refused to sit a battery on Concrete..

[Citroënbender]

I think the basic idea is thermal equilibrium. If the bottom remains colder than the top, reaction will not be equal over the height of the plates.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I reckon It's the ultimate "Urban Myth" & sit them on the shed Floor without a second thought Or any Issues..
However I had a Bloke who worked for Me for a bit over 7 Yrs who point blank refused to sit a battery on Concrete..

There's no science behind it, I still tell people not to do it and keep the ghost stories alive and continuing to the next generation though

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's no science behind it, I still tell people not to do it and keep the ghost stories alive and continuing to the next generation though

If there's no science behind it and it's an old wives tale, then why do manufacturers store them on pallets and retailers store them on stands and shelves.

Even they're too scared to put them on concrete. Think about it!

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

...

Anyone else here still hesitant to put batteries on concrete floors? Its the 'chicken soup fixes all' wives tale of the automotive industry, no one can explain whether it actually discharges/damages batteries but I still won't do it

....

Back in the early nineties we used to buy a lot of batteries off the panel shop next door. He was one of the most laid back people you would ever meet but God help you if you put one of his batteries on the concrete floor.

To this day, I can't bring myself to do it. Not trying to go all religious, but I put it on the same level as not eating red meat on Good Friday.

[Citroënbender]

Concrete has a thermal conductivity k-value around 2,25. Timber (for example) is around 0,12 k-value. IOW a superior insulator.

So if you sit an active lead-acid battery on cooler-than-ambient-temperature concrete for an extended period, heat may be drawn away from the bottom of it, this reduces the rate of reaction and theoretically its “fight” against self-discharge when compared to timber flooring in otherwise the same prevailing conditions.

If you have a heated bathroom floor, this is probably a good place to stand your spare batteries.

[Bluehoon]

If batteries aren't lasting check your earths & upgrade them.

Bad earthing is a killer every time. Was having issues with head light globes popping and sluggy starting on my BF. Extra earth strap from chassis to negative terminal - sorted. Made a surprising difference.

Last century in BF lasted 5.5 years. Replaced this year.
Never touched, maintained or trickle charged - noting.

5.5 years on a 67EF MF with E-gas hard cold starting and ignition - can't complain.

XR8 - 4 years and going strong.

Century quality hasn't dropped at all.

Check your earthing.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by PG2

Back in the early nineties we used to buy a lot of batteries off the panel shop next door. He was one of the most laid back people you would ever meet but God help you if you put one of his batteries on the concrete floor.

To this day, I can't bring myself to do it. Not trying to go all religious, but I put it on the same level as not eating red meat on Good Friday.

Those were the bad old days when battery casings were made from rubber; thank god for plastic these days.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but could not see anywhere else to put this.

Question is : Has anyone had issues with Century Batteries lately?

You asked the question above and I answered it. Given they are a mix of new and old Century batteries I don't think you needed to jump down my throat mate.

The fact some are 15 years old is a relevant answer for your question on if I have had issues with them.

[CFOUR]

have 4 centuries in the driveway, 1x 8 years old, 2x 3 years old and 1x 6 months old will see if it fails first. went out and checked the for-recycling battery pile the two car batteries are both dead centuries both have dead cells both did last warranty period.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Going on this journey I am now wondering a few things :

1) Would a huge chain like Supercheap Auto have a deal with Century where they get their batteries made to a price to maximise profits, and if the battery could be a different battery, possibly lower quality (although it looks the same as all others). I have heard of similar deals with large chain stores.

2) Would battery components be affected by recent increase in need of battery components for Solar Systems and electric cars, driving the prices of raw materials up forcing manufacturers to us inferior materials or less of them to keep product costs down? Bit like Burgers/Breadrolls/Bags of Chips/ even vegetables etc getting smaller (has anyone noticed how small vegetables that sell by each rather than weight have gotten?? Cauliflowers, lettuces etc are about 1/3rd the size they used to be yet prices have gone up)

3) I need to buy a battery this week for my EL Falcon, considering either another Century (not from a chain store) and just keep claiming on the warranty, or a Supercharge battery (which also has poor reviews online) with the same 40 months warranty.

Any others readily available that also offer a long warranty period and may have a better feed back rating for recent batteries

I am talking batteries less that 2 years old, I see the stories here of batteries lasting 8 years etc, that's fine my last battery lasted over ten years and every other battery I have ever had lasted 6-10 years, but batteries purchased in the past 24 months only last about 11-12 months.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Going on this journey I am now wondering a few things :

1) Would a huge chain like Supercheap Auto have a deal with Century where they get their batteries made to a price to maximise profits, and if the battery could be a different battery, possibly lower quality (although it looks the same as all others). I have heard of similar deals with large chain stores.

2) Would battery components be affected by recent increase in need of battery components for Solar Systems and electric cars, driving the prices of raw materials up forcing manufacturers to us inferior materials or less of them to keep product costs down? Bit like Burgers/Breadrolls/Bags of Chips/ even vegetables etc getting smaller (has anyone noticed how small vegetables that sell by each rather than weight have gotten?? Cauliflowers, lettuces etc are about 1/3rd the size they used to be yet prices have gone up)

3) I need to buy a battery this week for my EL Falcon, considering either another Century (not from a chain store) and just keep claiming on the warranty, or a Supercharge battery (which also has poor reviews online) with the same 40 months warranty.

Any others readily available that also offer a long warranty period and may have a better feed back rating for recent batteries

I am talking batteries less that 2 years old, I see the stories here of batteries lasting 8 years etc, that's fine my last battery lasted over ten years and every other battery I have ever had lasted 6-10 years, but batteries purchased in the past 24 months only last about 11-12 months.

Quite possible that Supercheap get a range built to their price point.Bunnings do deals with power tool makers to make tools that look the same but aren’t,so why shouldn’t auto parts dealers do the same

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Quite possible that Supercheap get a range built to their price point.Bunnings do deals with power tool makers to make tools that look the same but aren’t,so why shouldn’t auto parts dealers do the same

This is what made me think, because I know Bunnings get stuff made exclusively for them that is different to items bought elsewhere.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Going on this journey I am now wondering a few things :

1) Would a huge chain like Supercheap Auto have a deal with Century where they get their batteries made to a price to maximise profits, and if the battery could be a different battery, possibly lower quality (although it looks the same as all others). I have heard of similar deals with large chain stores.

2) Would battery components be affected by recent increase in need of battery components for Solar Systems and electric cars, driving the prices of raw materials up forcing manufacturers to us inferior materials or less of them to keep product costs down? Bit like Burgers/Breadrolls/Bags of Chips/ even vegetables etc getting smaller (has anyone noticed how small vegetables that sell by each rather than weight have gotten?? Cauliflowers, lettuces etc are about 1/3rd the size they used to be yet prices have gone up)

3) I need to buy a battery this week for my EL Falcon, considering either another Century (not from a chain store) and just keep claiming on the warranty, or a Supercharge battery (which also has poor reviews online) with the same 40 months warranty.

Any others readily available that also offer a long warranty period and may have a better feed back rating for recent batteries

I am talking batteries less that 2 years old, I see the stories here of batteries lasting 8 years etc, that's fine my last battery lasted over ten years and every other battery I have ever had lasted 6-10 years, but batteries purchased in the past 24 months only last about 11-12 months.

I think that Century making a cheaper line of batteries for a large reseller like SCA but using the same branding/look as their core range is a terrible idea, it would cause irreparable damage to the brand if things went south.

If you look at the group, they also have the Yuasa Range with a different name, different coloured case, still made in Australia and they even share some of the same product part numbers as their Century brother:

https://www.yuasabatteries.com.au/pr...nger-batteries

67EF MF 'Yuasa':

https://www.yuasabatteries.com.au/re...7ef%20mf/25589

Has the same case, its just black and different branding stickers - why does this exist? They wanted separation of branding for some reason.

Century-Yuasa is the name of the group and they have a bunch of different brands under their fold:

https://www.cyb.com.au/about-us/brands

Curious about those Maxx branded batteries.

They also supply Motorcraft branded batteries for Ford, if they were to do something like this surely it would wear a home brand for SCA rather than the same blue/yellow case at a cheaper price point.

Ford also has another brand called 'Omnicraft' which is aimed at the automotive aftermarket, I'm not sure who manufactures this but I have one in my Caprice that was cheap AF.

SCA would either have contract pricing with Century where they are buying at a way cheaper price than your local auto alectrician or mechanic solely because of volume they deal in on a national scale, or maybe under a price matrix but at a wholesale distributor level.

The way it works in automotive aftermarket if you're a manufacturer of a product is your pricing is structured around two groups:

'Contract pricing'
'Price matrix'

All the very large customers usually have contract pricing, because of their buying power or they're only buying X Y and Z products that they specifically want rather than an entire range - IE for example if you were selling to Kenworth and all they bought was say N70ZZ and N120 but a ****load of them then they'd be under construct pricing on two products.

Or maybe you were approached by Thales and they want a battery for their Hawkei/Bushmaster vehicles - again these guys would come under contract pricing.

Otherwise everyone else goes under a price matrix, where it would be divided under 'business types' like:

Wholesale distributor
Reseller
Fleet
Trade workshop
Retail
****ers tax (my favorite )

They all have access to the same products but their buy price varies across each group depending on where they fit in.

Then within those groups they're further divided into small, medium, large which further effects their buy price even further.

IE - you have a mobile mechanic who has a few of your product on the shelf, he doesn't get as good buy price as what the workshop does who only has your product and moves lots of it, they're both 'trade workshop' category but one is small and one is large.

The trade workshops even at the best buy price won't be buying it as cheap as a small reseller like say 'Battery World' would, they carry heaps more stock and sell much more, they're a different category of business that usually will buy more volume.

Wholesale distributor can be your Burson/Repco/SCA with a national footprint and huge volumes, they buy at the lowest prices under the 'pricing matrix' structure - or they could also be under 'contract pricing' structure if they're only buying certain parts of your range.

I reckon its the same Century battery you can get from any of their resellers, rather than an el-cheapo version made to look the same specifically for SCA - this is absolute marketing suicide and I doubt they would because they have other variations like Yuasa and Motorcraft.

With the huge demand for renewable energy and batteries, I think most solar installations are using lithium batteries rather than flooded lead acid where there's advantages in depth of discharge and how hard you can smash it with current draw over flooded lead acid.

They also use lithium in EVs so I think if anything demand would be falling for flooded lead acid for these markets as there's better options the market uses for these purposes.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think that Century making a cheaper line of batteries for a large reseller like SCA but using the same branding/look as their core range is a terrible idea, it would cause irreparable damage to the brand if things went south.

If you look at the group, they also have the Yuasa Range with a different name, different coloured case, still made in Australia and they even share some of the same product part numbers as their Century brother:

https://www.yuasabatteries.com.au/pr...nger-batteries

67EF MF 'Yuasa':

https://www.yuasabatteries.com.au/re...7ef%20mf/25589

Has the same case, its just black and different branding stickers - why does this exist? They wanted separation of branding for some reason.

Century-Yuasa is the name of the group and they have a bunch of different brands under their fold:

https://www.cyb.com.au/about-us/brands

Curious about those Maxx branded batteries.

They also supply Motorcraft branded batteries for Ford, if they were to do something like this surely it would wear a home brand for SCA rather than the same blue/yellow case at a cheaper price point.

Ford also has another brand called 'Omnicraft' which is aimed at the automotive aftermarket, I'm not sure who manufactures this but I have one in my Caprice that was cheap AF.

SCA would either have contract pricing with Century where they are buying at a way cheaper price than your local auto alectrician or mechanic solely because of volume they deal in on a national scale, or maybe under a price matrix but at a wholesale distributor level.

The way it works in automotive aftermarket if you're a manufacturer of a product is your pricing is structured around two groups:

'Contract pricing'
'Price matrix'

All the very large customers usually have contract pricing, because of their buying power or they're only buying X Y and Z products that they specifically want rather than an entire range - IE for example if you were selling to Kenworth and all they bought was say N70ZZ and N120 but a ****load of them then they'd be under construct pricing on two products.

Or maybe you were approached by Thales and they want a battery for their Hawkei/Bushmaster vehicles - again these guys would come under contract pricing.

Otherwise everyone else goes under a price matrix, where it would be divided under 'business types' like:

Wholesale distributor
Reseller
Fleet
Trade workshop
Retail
****ers tax (my favorite )

They all have access to the same products but their buy price varies across each group depending on where they fit in.

Then within those groups they're further divided into small, medium, large which further effects their buy price even further.

IE - you have a mobile mechanic who has a few of your product on the shelf, he doesn't get as good buy price as what the workshop does who only has your product and moves lots of it, they're both 'trade workshop' category but one is small and one is large.

The trade workshops even at the best buy price won't be buying it as cheap as a small reseller like say 'Battery World' would, they carry heaps more stock and sell much more, they're a different category of business that usually will buy more volume.

Wholesale distributor can be your Burson/Repco/SCA with a national footprint and huge volumes, they buy at the lowest prices under the 'pricing matrix' structure - or they could also be under 'contract pricing' structure if they're only buying certain parts of your range.

I reckon its the same Century battery you can get from any of their resellers, rather than an el-cheapo version made to look the same specifically for SCA - this is absolute marketing suicide and I doubt they would because they have other variations like Yuasa and Motorcraft.

With the huge demand for renewable energy and batteries, I think most solar installations are using lithium batteries rather than flooded lead acid where there's advantages in depth of discharge and how hard you can smash it with current draw over flooded lead acid.

They also use lithium in EVs so I think if anything demand would be falling for flooded lead acid for these markets as there's better options the market uses for these purposes.

being in the game And might I add SCA is a customer and knowing many many fellow companies in the game NO WAY would Century nor any other reputable Manufacturer agree having their own brand at risk as such, sacrilidge.
In a customer's private brand yes made to a specific spec BUT NO way cheap to the point of premature early failures for again, that word gets out who's made this X brand or product let alone a private brand doesn't want to risk its rep as well, especially from a known company like SCA.
They learnt from their early days in regards to price to market with some of their own brands, have improved 1000%.
Its mainly the small crowds who risk importing from any shonky unqualified cheap factory who would do that type of business to market.

I got to say I think the tech of cars todays have put so much loads on battery life I've noticed mine hardly last like they used to back in the day.
Its also like playing roulette from observations, one persons battery last for yonks another 2yrs.
It is weird, my few rides, hilux 4x4 diesel obviously has a HD battery, why did the OE one last for so so many years that I've put 2 new ones in in a space of 5 years ???
Supercharge < led to believe they were ok, nope maybe 4yrs.
Now a Powersource one, we shall wait and see.

I don't think battery quality is anywhere near as good as the ol days.
Though all was so simple back then AND the good brands didn't skimp on any of their production components.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by FTE217

I got to say I think the tech of cars todays have put so much loads on battery life I've noticed mine hardly last like they used to back in the day.

It's not the tech in the car, because the tech has not changed. Its a 2007 BF GT, the last battery lasted over 10 years, the one after that 11 month, the one after that 13 months. Same car treated the same way, no mechanical or battery drain issues.

So we are compering apples with apples. If it was only a one off then I would have been fine, as it's a one off, but twice in a row there is a problem, and I know 110% it's not the car.

Unfortunately my other car (EL GLI Falcon) also needs a new battery now (it's been in there at least 6 years so not an issue), but I am now concerned getting my go to battery for the past 20 or 30 years (Century) due to the above.

I have to probably buy one tomorrow as my daughter need the car for work for the week end and she can't drive the GT (P Plates), I guess I will just grab another Century battery and keep claiming the warranty if it also fails after 10-12 months.

My work car 4x4 has a century battery that's been on there for years without a single problem, but again it wasn't made in the past 2-3 years, and most bad feed back and personal experience seems to be from the past 24-36 months.

[CFOUR]

Originally Posted by CFOUR

have 4 centuries in the driveway, 1x 8 years old, 2x 3 years old and 1x 6 months old will see if it fails first.

Update
the 8 year old (now 10) and one of the 3 year old ones (now 5) have died in the past month, the older was a 67ef the younger a 57ef. replaced both with the replacement 67efmf. the surviving one from 2019 is also a 67ef.

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Had the Century 67EF MF battery since Feb 2019, regular maintenance charge keeps it good to date

Was SCA Club special, 42 month warranty fitted, watch out for it,

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by BFIIGhiaZF6

Had the Century 67EF MF battery since Feb 2019, regular maintenance charge keeps it good to date

Was SCA Club special, 42 month warranty fitted, watch out for it,

image

Been waiting for couple of truck NS70's to come down.

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Been waiting for couple of truck NS70's to come down.

Extra CCA would be nice, provided it will fit in the tray?, I have found the 640 perfectly adequate in the Ghia, starts instantly, hot or cold, winter or summer.

[Bossxr8]

TLDR lol.

Nah you make some interesting points there Franco. Business's can be so short sighted sometimes.

Heard today with new gen Ranger launch they are actively trying to nip quality issues in the bud, even if it means lost production. It's all about getting it right from the get go, and not letting issues get to the customer. Seems like the culture is actually starting to change, because it used to be a short sighted vision of building as many cars as possible and worry about QC later.

The failed Explorer launch light a fire under the company, because it was a disaster and the resulting recalls cost the company hundreds of millions. Might have been a blessing in disguise. Feedback from Thai dealers has been overwhelmingly positive on the vehicles they have received so far, so so far its looking good.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

TLDR lol.

Nah you make some interesting points there Franco. Business's can be so short sighted sometimes.

Heard today with new gen Ranger launch they are actively trying to nip quality issues in the bud, even if it means lost production. It's all about getting it right from the get go, and not letting issues get to the customer. Seems like the culture is actually starting to change, because it used to be a short sighted vision of building as many cars as possible and worry about QC later.

The failed Explorer launch light a fire under the company, because it was a disaster and the resulting recalls cost the company hundreds of millions. Might have been a blessing in disguise. Feedback from Thai dealers has been overwhelmingly positive on the vehicles they have received so far, so so far its looking good.

TLDR Franco is glad he's out

I do my best work when I'm in my 'office'

Yep, the only difference there is you're doing the same quality control work, its just being done before it gets to a customer, rather than afterwards, the process is still there its just been shifted to a point where you aren't damaging your brand.

My saying is don't give people a reason to start looking, when you give someone the ****s enough thats when they start looking for alternatives/your competitors.

Century has given a lot of us in this thread a reason to go looking into other product.

[KobiXR6T]

I'm onto my 3rd century in the BF XR6T. I've had to replace them around every 2-3 years. The last one which was HD with 36month warranty crapped it in 2 years. Just gave up one day and wouldn't throw the bendix out on the starter motor. Took the battery to place of purchase, tested as dead and replaced under warranty.

At about 24months in now, and again car will sometimes struggle to turn over. Sometimes it starts, but certainly isn't cranking as quickly as expected. Been through the charging system and earth/grounds. Everything else checks out but the batteries just don't hold up.

[Citroënbender]

I like finding the instances where engineers and designers one-up the financial team.

Examples that come to mind, a tactile coating applied to the never-exposed surfaces of some Alfa ashtrays. Falcon bonnet struts, left and right distinguished by part numbers. Fiat body modules where multiple iterations physically existed with the same componentry and different flashes; rather than using simple logic conditions that did or didn’t send signals based on the KO startup circuitry tests and having one set of code for all… A special mention also to the nameless person in CBS, who in 1966 put an extra zero on a purchase order and they had four years’ supply of one electronic component.