Ebola

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by b0son

It can. All you have to do is (a) not present symptoms; (b) be less than truthful about your movements prior.

The boss of the Texas hospital that should have picked up the Texas ebola patient has already apologised... for what? Not following protocol.

The only way to ensure protocols are rigorously followed is to create an appropriate atmosphere of fear, not 'she'll be right mate'. Like I already said, complacency will be our biggest enemy.

really?

create an appropriate atmosphere of fear

I can't believe you said that

proper education and information about it and being reasonable about it is what's required NOT panic and guessing.

and who has ever suggested complacency as a response?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by xxx000

proper education and information about it and being reasonable about it is what's required NOT panic and guessing.

We need to be realistic. People who have travelled from affected countries, who may themselves be carrying the virus, will not always be truthful about where they've been and whether they are sick. We've seen this already.

We needed people to be at least afraid enough of the possibility of an outbreak to ensure they remain vigilant. If they're told the likelihood of transmission is so low it doesn't warrant any alarm, it will be treated accordingly by front line staff whose job it is to prevent it entering our country in the first place.

and who has ever suggested complacency as a response?

Every statement I've seen has been 'we're prepared, we have nothing to worry about, our healthcare is top shelf, etc'. I don't know about you, but to me, that smacks of arrogance. The Texas case is the perfect example.

Our hospitals will keep us safe while numbers remain small. Do you truly believe they could cope once those numbers reach 50? 100? more? Once it becomes clear that there are cases locally, people with any symptoms resembling ebola (ie. common cold) will be clogging up our hospitals, and then the system will grind to a halt.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by b0son

If they're told the likelihood of transmission is so low it doesn't warrant any alarm, it will be treated accordingly by front line staff whose job it is to prevent it entering our country in the first place.

I'm pretty sure our frontline staff actually know what's going on and are briefed accordingly by the appropriate ad relevant authorities not the media or politicians.
These people are not just joe-blow labour staff but trained, briefed and informed people...
I hope on so many fronts

JP

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

These people are not just joe-blow labour staff but trained, briefed and informed people...
I hope on so many fronts

You have a lot more faith than I. Having to deal periodically with customs staff, I am regularly underwhelmed by the systems, procedures, and competency.

[Lotte]

Except, to be contagious, you need to present with symptoms.
And people who present with Ebola symptoms who haven't been to infected countries, but have been to Africa, are being tested in some parts of the world.
We've had Ebola outbreaks before. Stop fear mongering

I really feel like I'm repeating myself here.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I'm pretty sure our frontline staff actually know what's going on and are briefed accordingly by the appropriate ad relevant authorities not the media or politicians.
These people are not just joe-blow labour staff but trained, briefed and informed people...
I hope on so many fronts

JP

Great! Load up the front line staff with more bureaucracy, paperwork, procedures and when something goes wrong set up a parliamentary committee (witch hunt) looking for blame.

Why not simply ban people from West Africa coming into Australia until Ebola is "under control" If people want to come here they have to provide verified medical evidence that they are Ebola free - put the primary responsibility on them and not our front line staff - they have enough stuff to do.

At this point in time prevention is better than cure.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Lotte

Except, to be contagious, you need to present with symptoms.

Given the time it takes for symptoms to appear, there is sufficient time for a non-presenting individual to enter another country, pass through various checkpoints, deny being in an affected region, and enter a community. Wait, that's already happened.... and he's now dead and the person treating him also infected.

We've had Ebola outbreaks before.

In the 37 years since the first outbreak, the biggest outbreak killed only 280 people, but averaging only 63 per outbreak.

This one is currently over 4,500. WHO estimate up to 10,000 new cases per week within two months. If you see nothing alarming about that rate of increase, well, ignorance is bliss....

[Lotte]

Except he didn't lie. It was a high profile case. And it was handled badly by one person. Who got Ebola because they're an idiot.

At no point have I said this isn't alarming. But it's not alarming because of two or three cases in the developed world. It's alarming because those two or three cases are what has gotten the attention.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by cheap

Great! Load up the front line staff with more bureaucracy, paperwork, procedures and when something goes wrong set up a parliamentary committee (witch hunt) looking for blame.

Why not simply ban people from West Africa coming into Australia until Ebola is "under control" If people want to come here they have to provide verified medical evidence that they are Ebola free - put the primary responsibility on them and not our front line staff - they have enough stuff to do.

At this point in time prevention is better than cure.

I think your proposal would create new govt departments due to its complexity
Talkback radio style simplistic answers to complex questions don't work.

It's a repeat of the hysteria that surrounded aids in '80's until we smartened up

[Lotte]

Everyone who had contact with Thomas Duncan has been monitored and cleared. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebo...duncan-n229491
I'm not even surprised.

And yet the actual issue in Africa is that locals tend not to go to doctors, hence why is spreading. That and the eating of animals that carry the disease. Both of which aren't issues here.

Be concerned.but be concerned about Africa, west Africa at that. Not here. Panic is what fails you in a zombie apocalypse after all.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cheap

Try getting a dog, cat, cow, horse virtually any animal or a seed pod into Australia and the quarantine/customs people are all over you like a rash.

People coming from a known infected part of the world, come this way and straight through, put loads airline passengers at risk no problem - talk about double standards.

I just came back into Australia by cruise ship this morning and I didn't have to come back through customs, just got off at the port and handed my declaration form into the customs lady, no search of any kind. Plenty of things I could have taken back into the country without a worry.

I should have bought a few lobsters from the locals who were selling them cheap on the south pacific islands

Either I'm really lucky or people coming in by ship aren't checked out, but this is twice I've been out and back into the country by ship and never been searched or had to go through any checkpoint coming back in. First time was 2011, just walked off the boat back into the country.

[xxx000]

they rely on sniffer dogs, body language, profiling, intelligence reports, random searches and the declaration you complete.

we've walked through several times too after overseas holidays but we're legit and had nothing to hide

[cheap]

Countries and airlines which have taken action.

Botswana: Authorities have banned entry of all travellers who have been in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone in the previous 30 days.

Cabo Verde: Travel is restricted into the country for non-resident foreigners who in the previous 30 days have been to any of the countries affected by EVD.

Cameroon: Authorities have banned entry for any traveller who has been in an EVD affected country, including Nigeria, in the previous 21 days. All air, sea and land borders with Nigeria have temporarily been closed.

Cote d’Ivoire: Authorities have banned entry for any traveller who has been in an affected country in the previous three months (90 days). Land borders with Guinea and Liberia have also reportedly been closed.

Ethiopia: Authorities have introduced additional health screening and information requirements for travellers arriving by air and land. Travellers who register a high temperature during screening may be quarantined.

Equatorial Guinea: The issuance of visas has been suspended for those travelling from central and west Africa. The national carrier Ceiba Intercontinental has reportedly cancelled all incoming and outgoing flights to/from Sao Tome et Principe, Cameroon, Cote d’Ivoire, Ghana, Republic of Congo, Benin, Togo, Nigeria and Gabon. In addition, permission for vessels travelling to or from west, central or east Africa to berth or depart from Malabo port has been suspended.

Gabon: All incoming flights from or via countries affected by EVD, including Nigeria, have been cancelled.

Guinea-Bissau: Authorities have closed the land border with Guinea, reinforced maritime patrols and airport controls, and suspended flights to and from affected countries.

Kenya: Entry of passengers travelling from or through Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, is suspended, with the exception of health professionals supporting efforts to contain the outbreak and Kenyan citizens.

Malawi: Authorities have introduced health screening at airports and land borders for passengers arriving from west Africa.

Mali: Health screening at airports and land border crossings has been increased.

Mauritius: Authorities have banned the entry of any nationals who have visited Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Nigeria or the Democratic Republic of the Congo in the previous two months.

Namibia: Authorities have suspended the entry of passengers travelling from EVD affected countries, with the exception of Namibian citizens.

Rwanda: Authorities have banned entry of all travellers who have been in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone in the previous 22 days. Health screening is in place at all border posts. Any non-residents with a fever of 37.5 degrees or above will not be allowed to enter Rwanda.

Seychelles: Citizens of any nationality who have visited Sierra Leone, Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of the Congo will not be allowed to enter the Seychelles.

South Africa: Foreign citizens arriving from EVD affected countries in west Africa will not be allowed to enter South Africa. South African citizens will be allowed to re-enter, but will be subject to screening.

The Gambia: Authorities have cancelled all incoming flights from Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia and Nigeria.

Uganda: Health screening is in place at Entebbe International Airport for all travellers from affected west African countries and from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. An isolation centre has been established at the airport for any suspected EVD cases.

Zambia: The entry of travellers from affected west African countries is banned.

Zimbabwe: Passengers from EVD-affected countries are being identified and interviewed at airports and land borders. Travellers from west Africa are reportedly subject to a 21 day health surveillance

Airline suspensions
We are aware that the following airlines have changed or suspended flights in the west Africa region as a result of the EVD outbreak. Further suspensions may be put in place at short notice. Before travelling by air in Africa, we strongly recommend that you contact your airline for the latest information on service changes that may affect your plans.

Air France has suspended flights to Liberia and Sierra Leone. Flights to Guinea may be off-schedule, or cancelled at short notice.

British Airways has suspended flights Liberia and Sierra Leone until 31 March 2015.

Emirates has suspended flights to Guinea.

Kenyan Airways has temporarily suspended flights from Liberia and Sierra Leone into Nairobi.

Asky Airlines has suspended flights to and from Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia.

Arik Air and Gambia Bird have suspended services to Liberia and Sierra Leone.

Ceiba Intercontinental has suspended flights to west African countries.

Korean Air has suspended flight to and from Kenya.

Royal Air Maroc and Brussels Airlines are operating on modified routes and schedules.

Delta has ceased flying to Monrovia, Liberia for commercial reasons not related to the EVD outbreak.

[Peter B - CV8]

^^^^^ about time !!!

[b0son]

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...-1227100523727

Seriously? Docs that have been treating ebola patients in affected countries are just let straight into the community? And this guy was riding around on the subway. You'd think a doc would know better. Like I said .. complacency.

[cheap]

^ well meaning people, putting lots of people at risk.

Quarantining everyone leaving West Africa, it is going to have to happen.

Unlike H I V, Ebola is transmitted in a much easier way, there is no comparison between the two.

[xxx000]

^^ really? do tell

how much easier?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by xxx000

^^ really? do tell

how much easier?

An estimated 10,000 people per month easier.

[cheap]

A sensible precaution.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison announces the government has temporarily suspended the immigration program from West Africa.

No applications for visas from countries affected by Ebola are being processed, Mr Morrison says, and anyone with a visa who has not yet departed for Australia will have their visa cancelled.

People with visas who have already left will be subject to three health checks and placed in quarantine on arrival, Mr Morrison says.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...#ixzz3HJmip8mN

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by cheap

Great! Load up the front line staff with more bureaucracy, paperwork, procedures and when something goes wrong set up a parliamentary committee (witch hunt) looking for blame.

Why not simply ban people from West Africa coming into Australia until Ebola is "under control" If people want to come here they have to provide verified medical evidence that they are Ebola free - put the primary responsibility on them and not our front line staff - they have enough stuff to do.

At this point in time prevention is better than cure.

I usually dont agree with alot of what you post however I do 1000% agree with you on this.

Two things need to happen to stop the spread and it is this simple.

- Stop the do-gooders from going over there to help
- Stop those with or near the disease from leaving

It will phase itself out if those two things happen and it wont spread.

Lets take the case right here in Brisbane with the African family under quarantine and one in isolation in hospital. QLD Government and QLD Health KNEW 3 days prior to their arrival that they were coming to Australia from one of the affected countries and guess what? THEY LET THEM IN

Why? Why let people in from the affected area? Where is the border control and who the bloody hell decided let them in?

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by cheap

An estimated 10,000 people per month easier.

You do realise that it has spread faster in Africa because bat is considered a delicacy there and the bats are themselves carriers of the Ebola virus.
You can't compare that with other countries and think that the virus would spread that fast elsewhere. It's actually very difficult to catch by casual contact just like aids

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I usually dont agree with alot of what you post however I do 1000% agree with you on this.

Two things need to happen to stop the spread and it is this simple.

- Stop the do-gooders from going over there to help
- Stop those with or near the disease from leaving

It will phase itself out if those two things happen and it wont spread.

Lets take the case right here in Brisbane with the African family under quarantine and one in isolation in hospital. QLD Government and QLD Health KNEW 3 days prior to their arrival that they were coming to Australia from one of the affected countries and guess what? THEY LET THEM IN

Why? Why let people in from the affected area? Where is the border control and who the bloody hell decided let them in?

I see, let them all die and we'll just watch safely from a distance eh?
Been to your family do gooder (doctor) lately?

[BradEL]

Absolutely agree, you couldn't have said it better. It's just like that damn nurse in America who is winging about being quarantined, she shouldn't have gone over there in the first place if she can't accept the consequences of trying to be a 'hero'

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

- Stop the do-gooders from going over there to help
- Stop those with or near the disease from leaving

It will phase itself out if those two things happen and it wont spread.

Why? Why let people in from the affected area? Where is the border control and who the bloody hell decided let them in?

[Road Games]

[Road Games]

[mik]

Originally Posted by b0son

You have a lot more faith than I. Having to deal periodically with customs staff, I am regularly underwhelmed by the systems, procedures, and competency.

Ditto on the customs thing, people just dont have a clue how hit and miss these things can be.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I see, let them all die and we'll just watch safely from a distance eh?
Been to your family do gooder (doctor) lately?

Yep, sometimes again the do-gooders need to keep their nose out of it to fester away until it cannot fester anymore. Simple. Then we don't get the hysteria and "crisis" slogans thrown at us because the outbreak is contained in one area, not globally.

FYI no I havent been to my family do-gooder either, don't trust them at all. But thanks for asking anyway.

[jpblue1000]

Lets think about Human nature for a bit. ( not trying to be inflammatory or dramatic just posing a hypothetical)
If the worlds so called 'do-gooders' pulled out of West Africa to 'let' the Virus dies out what would the victims do, what would you do if left to die in your house.
I believe most would travel looking for help, you'd go to the hospital seeking to get better. The travelling is what significantly adds to the Virus' efficacy. with every step more people could be contacted and potentially infected.
Without local treatment and containment the suffering will spread looking for help, they will infect more and more who in turn will travel. before we know it it will be global having spread like a virus.
Bare in mind you can walk from Africa almost to Australia, as the virus relay race marches inevitably onward towards us we stand back and do nothing, preventing 'do-gooders' from getting in harms way.
Let them Go, volunteers with appropriate qualifications, send our troops with appropriate training nd equipment. They know the risks, inform them the risks and then quarantine them before their return. Some of them will die through failure of protocol, but casualties are part of a war, a war against a Virus.
But sooner or later we will have to quarantine all arrivals, event the non 'do-gooders' who just went to Bali on holiday, or the US for business, because can we be sure they are not infected, that they didn't meet someone who met someone who was infected and so forth.
A half measure isn't enough, total border closure, total quarantine to be sure. But what if it does get through, state based border quarantine. A total movement ban, curfews, military control?
Be careful what you wish for, it might bight back.
These 'Do-gooders' otherwise known as doctors and nurses are our first defence against a possible scenario nobody wants to admit. A solution to a global problem that if not stopped could be here soon.

JP

[mccann]

Originally Posted by cheap

An estimated 10,000 people per month easier.

I know, a direct quote form wiki, but I couldn’t explain it better, for 1st world countries, it would be very difficult for the disease to get (or stay) established, it would be very similar to AID's in terms of infection vectors, basic hygiene would keep infections to a minimum, and would be easily eradicated, notice how only foreign healthcare workers seem to have been affected. Unfortunately governments and media have generated a lot of hysteria over this, however, it is very important to control this disease and if possible eradicate, especially to the people of Africa!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease
Transmission
Life cycles of the Ebolavirus

Between people, Ebola disease spreads only by direct contact with the blood or body fluids of a person who has developed symptoms of the disease.[1][3] Body fluids that may contain ebolaviruses include saliva, mucus, vomit, feces, sweat, tears, breast milk, urine and semen.[24] The WHO states that only people who are very sick are able to spread Ebola disease in saliva, and whole virus has not been reported to be transmitted through sweat. Most people spread the virus through blood, feces and vomit.[25] Entry points for the virus include the nose, mouth, eyes, open wounds, cuts and abrasions.[24] Contact with objects contaminated by the virus, particularly needles and syringes, may also transmit the infection.[26] The virus is able to survive on objects for a few hours in a dried state and can survive for a few days within body fluids.[24]

The Ebola virus may be able to persist for up to 7 weeks in the semen of survivors after they recovered, which could lead to infections via sexual intercourse.[1] Ebola may also occur in the breast milk of women after recovery, and it is not known when it is safe to breastfeed again.[4] Otherwise, people who have recovered are not infectious.[26]

The potential for widespread infections in countries with medical systems capable of observing correct medical isolation procedures is considered low.[27] Usually when someone has symptoms of the disease, they are unable to travel without assistance.[28]

Dead bodies remain infectious; thus, people handling human remains in practices such as traditional burial rituals or more modern processes such as embalming are at risk.[27] Nearly two thirds of the cases of Ebola infections in Guinea during the 2014 outbreak are believed to have been contracted via unprotected (or unsuitably protected) contact with infected corpses during certain Guinean burial rituals.[29][30]

Health-care workers treating those who are infected are at greatest risk of getting infected themselves.[26] The risk increases when these workers do not have appropriate protective clothing such as masks, gowns, gloves and eye protection; do not wear it properly; or handle contaminated clothing incorrectly.[26] This risk is particularly common in parts of Africa where health systems function poorly and where the disease mostly occurs.[31] Hospital-acquired transmission has also occurred in some African countries resulting from the reuse of needles.[32][33] Some health-care centers caring for people with the disease do not have running water.[34] In the United States, spread has occurred due to inadequate isolation of infected patients.[35]

Viral transmission through the air has not been reported to occur during EVD outbreaks.[3] Transmission among rhesus monkeys via breathable 0.8–1.2 μm aerosolized droplets has been demonstrated in the laboratory.[36] The apparent lack of airborne transmission among humans may be due to levels of the virus in the lungs that are insufficient to cause new infections.[37] Spread of EBOV by water or food, other than bushmeat, has also not been observed.[26] No spread by mosquitos or other insects has been reported.[26]

Cheers

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by mccann

] Transmission among rhesus monkeys via breathable 0.8–1.2 μm aerosolized droplets has been demonstrated in the laboratory.[36]

I read recently this study was proven flawed as the holding cells were pressure washed daily causing aerosolized virus as the excrement of infected monkeys was cleaned up.
I don't believe it can be transmitted via air in any way.yet

JP