Explorer cruise control jams open in Victoria - Page 3

TadKa · 16-12-2009, 12:28 PM

A year or two ago a driver in tas thought turning the engine off while coasting downhill to save fuel would be a good idea. The steering locked and they were all killed. Darwin award nominee maybe but it might not be a great idea to allow you to turn the ignition off whilst driving.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11271134

xtremerus · 16-12-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

HAY GUISE I FOUND SOMETHING STRONGER THAN AN EXPLODER MOTOR!

Just push hard and keep it down.

Brakes and MUCH more powerful an the engine, as someone else said.
I think he just panicked and wasn't calm enough. Lucky he didn't kill someone.
He may be trying to be a late entry in the 2009 Darwin Awards.

Bobman · 16-12-2009, 12:49 PM

That guy put it on 'off'. Your steering doesn't lock if you leave it on 'acc'.

Seriously though, is there any car out there that won't let you move the key at all when you're driving? I think that's b/s. What if you stall at speed - can you not restart the car?

MAD · 16-12-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

Pushing harder on the brakes (even with dodgy brake disengage switch pushing harder can unstick it) or you can hold the SET- button in which reduces the speed of the car, hold it for long enough the car will come to a stop.

No good if the cruise control module has failed, which is what my hypothesis was.

Bobman · 16-12-2009, 12:56 PM

Doesn't the cruise system on the Explorers have a separate on/off switch like Falcons do? Wouldn't simply turning it 'off' work or not if the module had failed?

Brazen · 16-12-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

As has been said why did he wait till the last minute to jump on the brakes and reef the handbrake on, one would have thought he'd have done that BEFORE calling police, seconds after noticing the problem.

If you quickly and hard jump on the brakes at highway speed you should be able to come to a stop with the throttle stuck open. but....

In most cases as soon as the throttle is stuck open, people dont automatically jump on the brakes on a busy highway, what they do is ride the brakes to stop the speed increasing whilst their brain computes what is actually happening, then they would start to diagnose how to overcome it. They could turn the cruise on and off, check the accelearator pedal is not stuck, put the car into neutral, turn the car off - all the while they have been riding the brakes at high speed which then causes them to overheat, they then probably start pumping the brakes, but they have lost vaccuum asist due to the heat and the throttle being open. So at this stage you have lost the brakes.

You then have to wait until the brakes are cooled and vacuum pressure is returned.

I cant believe Ford AU stated they were not aware of this happening before, there has been countless instances of Explorers getting into situations like this overseas.

Road_Warrior · 16-12-2009, 01:56 PM

Can you actually shift the trans into neutral while the car is travelling (at speed) or is there a lockout feature??

Brazen · 16-12-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Can you actually shift the trans into neutral while the car is travelling (at speed) or is there a lockout feature??

I believe most cars have a lockout over a certain RPM. I remember Ford advertising the feature to rental car companies when the AU was released.

If the guy had no brakes and couldnt shift into neutral, he was quickly running out of options.

Pinch · 16-12-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Can you actually shift the trans into neutral while the car is travelling (at speed) or is there a lockout feature??

Depends what sort of car. I know my Mini wont let you change to neutral (CVT) at high revs. Or turn the engine off in drive. Would love to actually hear from a Explorer owner or driver who could confirm. Would clear up a lot of speculation about this. There seem to be some pretty big spears being thrown at this guy, when he really might have tried to do all he could.

When I get home I am going to see if there is a fuel pump relay fuse within arms distance. In the same situation, if the brakes didn't stop the Mini (they should though) that would be my only hope apart from ramming it into something hard, but at 100km/h?

Bobman · 16-12-2009, 02:19 PM

I could turn my engine off or put the transmission in neutral at freeway speeds in my 2004 BA. Surely an older Explorer wouldn't have lockouts?

BENT_8 · 16-12-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

Wow listen to all the experts who would know what to do.

Toyota (US) have had massive issues with their vehicle's throttles becoming jammed, people have died and guess what the BRAKES DIDN'T WORK either.

"The problem received national attention in August 2009 when four family members travelling in a Lexus ES 350 soared off an embankment, rolled several times, and burned. All four of the occupants were killed, including Mark Saylor, an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer. Saylor called 911 right before the crash and frantically reported that the Lexus was accelerating uncontrollably and that the brakes were unresponsive. Eyewitnesses say the car topped speeds of 120 mph before it crashed."

"when the throttle is in the open position it requires a brake pedal force of 150 pounds to stop the vehicle, five times more than the 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally."

Obviously it didn't happen because you guys said it can't.

Yeah, dont ya just love all the experts.
It took me all of a minute to consider
1 the auto locks out neutral when the vehicle is moving
2 the keys cant be switched off or removed whilst vehicle is in gear
3 the brakes would have boiled from prolonged attempts to slow below 100
4 Ford handbrakes are crap

Just as likely, yet no explorer owner has offered any insight into these possibilities.

As for the blokes intelligence, just another example of why not all drivers are as sharp as us enthusiasts.

mac_man_luke · 16-12-2009, 02:23 PM

IMO if the ignition is locked in gear then there should be a kill switch

AndrewR_AUII · 16-12-2009, 02:26 PM

With the transmission lockout...would have thought the opposite would be the way to do it: Shifting the transmission to Neutral disengages cruise control...

Brazen · 16-12-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

I dont think any of us are saying throttles dont jam open, we are saying that the throttle, brake and clutch cruise disengage, entire ingition/electrical system, ALL brakes and full gearbox control is next to impossible to all fail at once. As has been said why did he wait till the last minute to jump on the brakes and reef the handbrake on, one would have thought he'd have done that BEFORE calling police, seconds after noticing the problem.

The cruise control fails, he then rides the brakes why he figures out what the hell is happening, he then tries all sorts of solutions.

By the time he realises he cant fix the problem he has been riding the brakes at high speed for a while so he has overheated the brakes and with the throttle open maybe lost vaccum pressure rendering them useless

He then tries to put the car in neutral, but some cars dont let you go into neutral over certain RPM (a feature to prevent engine damge)

He then tries turning off the car, but some cars dont let you turn off the ignition over a certain speed or not in Park(a safety feature so you dont lose power steering and brakes)

He is then screwed.

Am I the only one who dosnt think this guy is necessarily an idiot? This situation could happen to a lot of people.

BENT_8 · 16-12-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewR_AUII

With the transmission lockout...would have thought the opposite would be the way to do it: Shifting the transmission to Neutral disengages cruise control...

Thats if its the cruise switch on the brake peddle was the fault, which in that case the cruise off button would have cut it too.
My moneys on a failed cruise module rendering all inputs useless regardless of his intellect.

What surprises me is that if this guy killed someone and the know it alls speculated on his ability to drive they'd be reprimanded by the Forum gods, yet this guy has been slandered without any facts and its allowed to continue.

4Vman · 16-12-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The cruise control fails, he then rides the brakes why he figures out what the hell is happening, he then tries all sorts of solutions.

By the time he realises he cant fix the problem he has been riding the brakes at high speed for a while so he has overheated the brakes and with the throttle open maybe lost vaccum pressure rendering them useless

He then tries to put the car in neutral, but some cars dont let you go into neutral over certain RPM (a feature to prevent engine damge)

He then tries turning off the car, but some cars dont let you turn off the ignition over a certain speed or not in Park(a safety feature so you dont lose power steering and brakes)

He is then screwed.

Am I the only one who dosnt think this guy is necessarily an idiot? This situation could happen to a lot of people.

Is that you Chase???

BENT_8 · 16-12-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Is that you Chase???

It must be if you've said it...

Whitey Ford · 16-12-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah yeah yeah Fords are perfect, must of been the driver, whatever.

If this was a Holden you would be yelling from the rooftops that a recall is needed and they are killing machines.

The same thing happened to a cop. He was driving a rental Lexus (Toyota) which are actually perfect driving appliances and it was entirely his own fault that he killed his family.

This has nothing to do with the badge the car is wearing.

Oh, look, good timing;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

Toyota (US) have had massive issues with their vehicle's throttles becoming jammed, people have died and guess what the BRAKES DIDN'T WORK either.

You should have read more about this particular case.

It's caused by the accelerator pedal getting stuck on the floor mat and the reason why that idiot killed his family is because he floored his rental Lexus to overtake and then didn't have the presence of mind to switch the car off, engage neutral, or unstick the accelerator pedal. The problem was made worse because his car had a remote ignition key and start button and he was unable to locate the 'off' button in his panic. He also did lots of slow braking which cooked his brakes, rather than one large attempt to stop.

He was a CHIP and he responded very badly under pressure.

It's horrible his family died and it's good news that this Explorer didn't harm anyone, but in both cases some calm rational thought would have prevented any incident at all.

Don't believe me? Just look at all the posts in this thread about people taking a split second to engage neutral or switch off the ignition when their throttle has stuck open or cruise control will not engage. A split second.

Bobman · 16-12-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

My moneys on a failed cruise module rendering all inputs useless regardless of his intellect.

So how does a cruise module render a car useless but suddenly the car can stop after travelling a distance of 54kms?

I suppose we believe that this car was Herbie's young cousin?

swanee · 16-12-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

CRUISE CONTROL FAIL!

WHEN NATURE CANT CONTROL NATURAL SELECTION, MACHINES WILL...

Looks like he has mastered removing keys from the ignition.

LOCO XP · 16-12-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

no explorer owner has offered any insight into these possibilities.

That's because it either hasn't happened yet, or they have been injured or killed in similar incidents. It's a built in safety feature of Ford. That is, in the event of an Exploder having a catastrophic failure as described previously, just make sure it fails that badly that it would not be possible for the involved parties to pursue a class action or forced recall.

But in all seriousness, although it seems unlikely for this event to be entirely attributed to the car as opposed to an interplay between user and failure of vehicle systems, there has been a long string of issues with the Exploder. Can't comment on the recent models, but the initial series had many issues. I remember my parents having to take ours ('96?) into the Ford delaership on a couple of occasions as a result of recall notices.

Bud Bud · 16-12-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It took me all of a minute to consider
3 the brakes would have boiled from prolonged attempts to slow below 100

Also would the car begin to rev out even more (fight the cause if you like) to replace the speed that was washed off due to the attempted increased braking as well?

Shamal · 16-12-2009, 03:05 PM

Just having a think about this ......

He did manage to stop the car with brakes after his "run of near death", so lets assume that they were actually working when the problem began.

I would find it very hard to believe that they were not working and then when confonted with peril they magically worked all of a sudden!

Come on .... lets be serious.

If I was in a run away car, and while I am not a gumby driver, I am not a F1 race driver either, I reckon I could figure something out to pull it up, even if it involved blowing the motor in the process.

As far as the brakes not working. I had an XE that the vacuum hose came off once, and it was like trying to stop a tractor with the bottom of your boots. Was only the (Ford) handbrake locking the back wheels that bought it to a stop rather than the car in front at the lights! The part about the pedal being heavy I can accept as I have experienced it, however the whole "No Brakes" thing until the end is a bit hard to swallow!

Cheers

Magna · 16-12-2009, 03:07 PM

i dont know what happened but you have to give him credit that he didn't wipe himself or someone else out. i mean when was the last time you could do 80km/h non stop in melbourne?

Brazen · 16-12-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Is that you Chase???

Yep,

I dont suppose anyone wants to buy a lightly used Ford Explorer off me? great condition, only used for highway driving (and the occasional median strip), just slight problem with the cruise control.

TruBlu351 · 16-12-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The cruise control fails, he then rides the brakes why he figures out what the hell is happening, he then tries all sorts of solutions.

By the time he realises he cant fix the problem he has been riding the brakes at high speed for a while so he has overheated the brakes and with the throttle open maybe lost vaccum pressure rendering them useless

He then tries to put the car in neutral, but some cars dont let you go into neutral over certain RPM (a feature to prevent engine damge)

He then tries turning off the car, but some cars dont let you turn off the ignition over a certain speed or not in Park(a safety feature so you dont lose power steering and brakes)

He is then screwed.

Am I the only one who dosnt think this guy is necessarily an idiot? This situation could happen to a lot of people.

Yes that is correct......you are the only person

TruBlu351 · 16-12-2009, 03:10 PM

Is the rear park brake system on these separate to the normal brakes? ie: internal drum park brake vs rear discs?

Shamal · 16-12-2009, 03:11 PM

Hey what about that Police EMP disable your car thing?

Couldn't they just have shot that at him, or taken out the tyres or something. No Exploder I know can go to far with rubber flapping around all over the place!

BENT_8 · 16-12-2009, 03:19 PM

Reading the updated story, Ford have admitted that there has been a recall due to sticking cruise control.
The cause being a fault with the brake switch causing fire in the underdash wiring looms.
Although they wont say the two are linked, go figure.

The story says he mounted a divider(possibly washing off speed) before the police told him to use both brakes as a last resort which worked to stop the vehicle.
The guy is only 22yo.
With his experience i can fully understand how his emotion took control and he panicked.
Surely you guys dont expect driving instructors to teach learners how to handle these once in a blue moon incidents.

Pinch · 16-12-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitey Ford

Don't believe me? Just look at all the posts in this thread about people taking a split second to engage neutral or switch off the ignition when their throttle has stuck open or cruise control will not engage. A split second.

All very good if your car allows you to do it. Some of mine don't. Some do. No Explorer driver has confirmed if they have a high speed neutral lock out or ignition lock while in drive, or not.

The media articles state that all the mentioned options were suggested by the Police, and tried by the guy to no avail. Technically it was possible that the Explorer had built in mechanisms to prevent engine damage in non-emergency situations.

Until we know for sure whether the Explorer auto has engine protection shift locks, no one knows if these options mentioned were actually available. The transmission in our NC's, BA's, AU's, Fiesta's, Mini's, Subies, Lexus at al are all different.

I am loathe to flame the guy, who didn't kill or injure anyone, and who didn't create swathes of destruction like some drunk drivers do, until we know the facts.