Malaysian Airways Flight 370

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

Yeah, but I find law and order episodes to easy - I think I must be gifted or something because I can solve them in the first two minutes (re runs are even easier). This mystery is a bit trickier and I like the challenge.
At the moment I am researching the radar capabilities Of Diego Garcia, for some reason I think they might have noticed a large plane flying in their vicinity (being a top secret base with nothing else close by)

And this revelation is based on????????????????

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by XWGT

And this revelation is based on????????????????

dont get too serious - its just a way of exercising my mind grapes (my dog is sick of me bouncing my theories off him so i do it here now)

Australia's Jindalee Operational Radar Network has a range of 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi), but in 1997 the prototype was able to detect missile launches by China over 5,500 kilometres. Radar 2 certainly covers the area that the flight supposedly travelled through. (and thats just our stuff, i am guessing the yanks have some pretty nifty stuff themselves which is under wraps)

Although Deigo Garcia is a known base and in that sense its not secret - but it was/is used for secret purposes (like off the books "rendition" - thats pretty well documented - except they seem to have stoped that because they were afraid of leaks from contractors).

as to the question of would they be monitoring the skys for unannounced incoming aircraft or missiles, well if i had a base in the middle of the ocean with nukes on it (among other things) with no one else around and the benefit of no commercial aircraft flying around - well lets just say i would probably have some sort of radar that could warn me if some one was heading my way - with more notice than a typical 500 mile civi based radar (which would give you any where from 5-30 minutes warning of a bad guy (plane or missile)approaching - i think they would want a slightly longer time frame. I think that was number one priority after pearl harbour.

then think about when the soviet submarine K-129 went down back in 1968. That was a submarine and much harder to track than an aircraft (and technology has progressed a little bit since then) They found that pretty quick and it only took 6 years to build a ship to recover it (well some of it - i was never good at those grab a toy machines at shopping centers either) - and it took a few years for the truth about that to come out and even then, a few media outlets knew the story but were talked into keeping it under raps by their friends at the cia (this is all public record now)

reminds me of that seen out of beverly hills cop:
Inspector Douglas Todd: Yes, we are, aren't we! Now, let's take a close look at that. One, a hoodlum friend. Two, a professional hit. Three, in a cop's apartment. This whole thing stinks to high heaven!

sure we dont know the facts but i didnt just walk in off the cotton fields

They have also released the manifest including 2.4 tons of unknown items items that included lion batteries (but wont say who shipped it).

I am just saying that a lot of things dont add up and the silences is deafening.

now if your really keen - you can visit a site like this:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...70176&page=157

and read through 150+ pages of interesting stuff (some people must have a bit of time on their hands) - but interesting non the less.

[usernametaken]

.... the lithium ion batteries theory is one that wont go away.

[CoupeKing]

I just cant see how cargo could be responsible for disabling the Transponder and ACARS, then be able to make covert turns and multiple altitude adjustments.

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

I just cant see how cargo could be responsible for disabling the Transponder and ACARS, then be able to make covert turns and multiple altitude adjustments.

remember, if you can disappear a whole plane, you can probably get the work experience guy to bodgy up some false paper work.

That being said, my guess is that there was some thing on that plane and there was paper work for it (not very helpful paper work) and what ever it was caused the plane to disappear - either by itself or some one else. The LION battery is just another variable in the mix now.

i sort of guess in the old days, there would be reporters following up leads and doing their own investigations - but now you just get a today tonight coverage (the cnn algezera et all are pretty boring - much more interesting on the tin foil hat forums)

the strange thing is all these countries are working together so well and no one is saying anything about anything (except abbott who seems just a bit to keen to say "we've found it")

[Romulus]

I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong but Diego Garcia is classed as an emergency airstrip for ETOPS flights, hence to many 777's fly from middle east to Perth and beyond.

Interesting point of view steve.zissou. JORN should have detected MH370 if the current search area is correct.

OT - I cannot find any information about the impact of the boxing day 2004 Tsumani and the impact it had on Diego Garcia. Surely DG was pummeled by the tsunami.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

remember, if you can disappear a whole plane, you can probably get the work experience guy to bodgy up some false paper work.

That being said, my guess is that there was some thing on that plane and there was paper work for it (not very helpful paper work) and what ever it was caused the plane to disappear - either by itself or some one else. The LION battery is just another variable in the mix now.

So its the Cargo then? No ditching in the Indian Ocean, but strategically landed on a remote Island, covered with palm leaves while the unknown extract a dirty nuke from its cargo hold?

[nstg8a]

Stolen
Russian
Nukes.

You would have to assume that if the yanks did it then we will never know, if some fundamentalist terrorist has pulled it off then at some point we are gonna know.

Brisbane hosts g20 soon.... Security can't protect against a nuke

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong but Diego Garcia is classed as an emergency airstrip for ETOPS flights, hence to many 777's fly from middle east to Perth and beyond.

Interesting point of view steve.zissou. JORN should have detected MH370 if the current search area is correct.

OT - I cannot find any information about the impact of the boxing day 2004 Tsumani and the impact it had on Diego Garcia. Surely DG was pummeled by the tsunami.

ETOPS flights is a good point, but if you look at the flight paths they only really fly east west in the vicinity of Diego Garcia - nothing North/South which is what 370 was doing. This is a pretty good example of flight paths


but you'd sure want to tell them you are coming if you wanted to use it. As per the US airforces statement from 2002 below (i cant be bother corecting the formatting):
""T he U S N a vy advis es that N S F Diego G a rcia m a y be i d e ntified as an E x tende d R a n ge T win E n gine Op er atio ns (E T O P S) em ergency la n din g site ( en r oute alte rnat e) for flig ht plannin g pur poses. T his is co nsis tent with U S gov ernm ent policy that an ai rcr a ft can land at any U S milita ry airfield if th e pilot determines there is an in -flig h t em ergency t hat w o uld m a ke continue d flight unsafe. H o w e ver, as N S F Diego G a rcia is a milita ry facility, it is in c u m bent on aircraft ope rat o rs to co ntin uously m oni to r N O T A M S w hic h m a y te m porarily r e strict th e use of the airfield, even for em ergency dive rsio ns. It i s im perativ e that airc raft dive rtin g to N S F Die go G a rcia c o m ply fully with all air defense proc edu res, as non -com plia nce co uld b e misconstr ued as a h o stile act

I think the radar operator in AUS or garcia would probably tell some one if he saw an unannounced plane flying towards garcia (or even near garcia) even out of curiosity "wheres that guy going to land?" sort of thing.

but...... what if it wasnt visible to radar? that can only happen because of one of 2 things.
1) it fly low to avoid radar. this would have drastically affected its range (hard to find the range of any aircraft at sea level) but i dont think it would have made it to garcia
2)or ECM (electronic counter measures) ie. they jammed any radars. There is some anecdotal evidence that this could have been the case (due to the way that civilian and military radar contact was lost - ie not at the same time). To do this they would have either had to have ECM system on board (could have been in one of those pallets with the "batteries" but is unlikly as it wouldnt be effective running inside the fuselage) or it was shadowed by another plane that had ECM capabilities ................. and now we are back to the US government

[steve.zissou]

sort of reminds me when i was in Vietnam on a boat cruise with my brother - we both had a fight over who got the one bed (i won) so he went outside and threw the key overboard - check mate.

now every passenger heard this (12 other people - and they thought it was hilarious) but one passenger told us that they previously stung some one $500 for a lost key. They said to say we handed it back already (not nice but $500 is a bit extreme for a 50c key - but when they have your passports......). So for the next 2 hours every one played along while the staff looked for this key and all the passengers corroborated my story - which was total BS - which the staff probably knew but couldn't prove.

[XWGT]

I read a good technical hypothesis on how a fire under the flight cabin fuelled by an oxygen tank may well have lead to disabling of all electrical systems and the plane automatic turn and erratic elevations.

All a theory of course but it did account for almost all factors.

Apparently there have been 11 fires caused in the same area on the 777 reported so far.

Overall its a huge mystery and very sad for everyone on board.

I'm beginning to think we will never really know what happened

[cheap]

Going going, soon gone...

MH370 is now page 21 news in the Couriermail

[Silver Ghia]

Lost forever, unless someone happens to come across it in perhaps years to come. As I said some time ago here.

I wish the PM will stop spending hard earned Australian taxpayer money on the search that will will most likely be fruitless. Then put up our taxes. It is the Malaysian Airlines and Malaysia that should be paying - its their aircraft. And Boeing and FAA should also be paying, as they are the ones responsible if it was an aircraft systems failure of some sort. They seem to have washed their hands off it.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I wish the PM will stop spending hard earned Australian taxpayer money on the search that will will most likely be fruitless. Then put up our taxes.

If a search (or rescue) is in Australian waters then we have an obligation.

Either way most of the military searching would still have to be paid, whether they were flying over the Indian Ocean or sitting in the mess playing cards.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

If a search (or rescue) is in Australian waters then we have an obligation.

Either way most of the military searching would still have to be paid, whether they were flying over the Indian Ocean or sitting in the mess playing cards.

Is waters 2000kms away from the mainland in the middle of the Indian Ocean Australian? If it is, the system stinks.

Fuel used, plus wear and tear on aircraft and ships etc. would be the main costs.



Edit: According to this, I dont think the search area is in Australian waters.


.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Is waters 2000kms away from the mainland in the middle of the Indian Ocean Australian? If it is, the system stinks.

The cost of the fuel used, plus wear and tear on aircraft and ships etc. must be horrendous.

Australia has claimed a significant maritime jurisdiction which extends many kms of our shores and also includes much oft he coats of Antarctica. Similarly we have land holdings including sectors of Antarctica, many pacific and Indian Oceans.

The system works in our favor should there be discoveries that benefit us.
In effect if MH370 has gone down in our jurisdiction it is no different than if it had disappeared in Perth's nightclub district.


http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rc...99684483177607

I'm pretty sure the extra wear and tear is negligible as all equipment used in the search would be being used very often anyway. Plus the Good will gesture to our neighbours is a priceless opportunity.

JP

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Is waters 2000kms away from the mainland in the middle of the Indian Ocean Australian? If it is, the system stinks.

Fuel used, plus wear and tear on aircraft and ships etc. would be the main costs.



Edit: According to this, I dont think the search area is in Australian waters.


.

I think that's a map of Australian waters, our rescue zone is much larger.....
http://theconversation.com/the-law-o...or-mh370-24658

[Silver Ghia]

As I said, the system stinks. And its the Malaysians that botched it from the start which complicated the search afterwards.

Besides the search area is only based on theoretical analysis, there is no definite indication that the aircraft is actually there, so why should Australian taxpayers pay?.

[Silver Ghia]

While spending all this money on the search which will probably end up with nothing, there are the Australian citizens who are suffering from cancer and other life threatening illnesses, who have no access to expensive drugs required for their condition due to very high costs involved, the homeless, and the genuine pensioners who are doing it tough because of their low pensions.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

While spending all this money on the search which will probably end up with nothing, there are the Australian citizens who are suffering from cancer and other life threatening illnesses, who have no access to expensive drugs required for their condition due to very high costs involved, the homeless, and the genuine pensioners who are doing it tough because of their low pensions.

I wonder how you would feel, Silver Ghia, if the shoe was on the other foot and your family was on board an aircraft that had mysteriously disappeared in an area that was Malaysia's responsibility (as assigned under international agreements) and they decided to cease the search because they have a poor population that they need to support?

I'm pretty confident your thoughts would be a little different then...?!?!

Craig H

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I wonder how you would feel, Silver Ghia, if the shoe was on the other foot and your family was on board an aircraft that had mysteriously disappeared in an area that was Malaysia's responsibility (as assigned under international agreements) and they decided to cease the search because they have a poor population that they need to support?

I'm pretty confident your thoughts would be a little different then...?!?!

Craig H

People are always going to view things differently depending on what's effecting them at the present time. You never know Silver Ghia might have a sick relative or somebody close that can't get treatment because of lack of funding. Always two sides to a coin, easy to look into from the outside and past judgement.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

While spending all this money on the search which will probably end up with nothing, there are the Australian citizens who are suffering from cancer and other life threatening illnesses, who have no access to expensive drugs required for their condition due to very high costs involved, the homeless, and the genuine pensioners who are doing it tough because of their low pensions.

You mean like most people who live in 3rd world countries? Those without access to expensive drugs, pensions and other forms of government hand-outs? It must be tough living in our country with this sense of entitlement mentality.

The money is being well spent on searching for MH370.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

While spending all this money on the search which will probably end up with nothing, there are the Australian citizens who are suffering from cancer and other life threatening illnesses, who have no access to expensive drugs required for their condition due to very high costs involved, the homeless, and the genuine pensioners who are doing it tough because of their low pensions.

You have to think about what you are wishing for, If you only want countries to worry about there sovereign waters, what happens to the rest? What happens to the families of the half a dozen Australians that dissappeared in this area that you want no one to have responsibility, except for the country where the flight airline is registered to. Are you saying that if a Qantas jet dissappears 300 miles off the California Coast we should set off in a dingy friom Cairns to look for it by ourselves?- or would you expect the US to help out?

Yeah all of the things you listed are important - but getting rid of marine search and rescue will not solve much of it at all, and will just open up a whole bunch of new issues.

Your wish would mean every country would have to have ships and search capability around the entire globe - which would cost shedloads and lead to less being able to be spent on the things you listed.

[ILLaViTaR]

they're saying marine trackers now explain the 4 detected pings by ocean shield etc. But are any of these people actually using their brains??

Apparently the black box pings are supposed to be 37.5mhz and the pings detected were actually 33.5mhz. I wasn't aware the pings detected were 33.5mhz what a joke. Meaning these 4 pings that they have so much credibility and confidence in actually aren't credible at all and definitely not the black boxes. A high school student could tell you that, I thought they had people who had at least would've done vce level physics employed in the search and recovery. But they keep using their imaginations and saying silt, the concave shape of the planes fuselage and the flying spaghetti monster can possibly alter frequencies.... completely unrealistic. Possible but completely unrealistic.

But to this Archaeologist who is now saying they're marine trackers. In his article he justifies this because the bbox pings are 37.5mhz and the detected pings are 33.5mhz.. and trackers are 30-50mhz or something therefore his naive logic is obviously detected pings could possibly be animal trackers...

But is he also aware that a planes black box emits this 37.5 frequency in specific one second intervals EXACTLY like the ones that were detected for over 2hrs and 23 minutes in the second ping by ocean shield? It's not just a frequency the frequency has it's own signature. I see him readily clarifying in his article that the detected 33.5mhz FREQUENCIES may be ambiguous with animal trackers but what about the specific one second INTERVALS that he's failed to acknowledge. He fails to clarify in his article even once whether or not animal trackers emulate the same interval period as a planes black box. I can only assume they don't and he's a moron only using the frequency inconsistency in the detected pings to push his ridiculous theory of animal trackers whilst conveniently leaving out the other crucial variable of intervals between pings.. why he gets a salary is beyond me.

If he actually has taken the one second intervals into account and the animal trackers actually do emulate the same 1 second intervals then surely he would've mentioned that in his article to stop people thinking he's an idiot.. I say he hasn't even bothered to take the variable of one second intervals into account.

What I find amazing is there's still no trace of the plane.. surely a bolt or perhaps something buoyant would've popped up? Surely hundreds of components were for almsot a week or more. We have satellites everywhere with logged imagry.

[chamb0]

Have you got a link? Ocean acoustics looks like a very very complicated business.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

surely a bolt or perhaps something buoyant would've popped up?

Someone in the Search said a while ago "it really is like looking for a needle in a haystack..............we just have to find the haystack first"

(floating bolts ? )

[foxtrot3]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

While spending all this money on the search which will probably end up with nothing, there are the Australian citizens who are suffering from cancer and other life threatening illnesses, who have no access to expensive drugs required for their condition due to very high costs involved, the homeless, and the genuine pensioners who are doing it tough because of their low pensions.

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

As I said, the system stinks. And its the Malaysians that botched it from the start which complicated the search afterwards.

Besides the search area is only based on theoretical analysis, there is no definite indication that the aircraft is actually there, so why should Australian taxpayers pay?.

Hi The amount we are paying for the search is little more than what we are paying to employ the members of the navy anyway (mainly fuel costs) yet the payoff in real time training will far out weigh this if we ever need to do this type of search where there may be survivors, same thing when we pluck sailors out of the southern ocean. Cheers MD

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by chamb0

Have you got a link? Ocean acoustics looks like a very very complicated business.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...tually-3511000

"The pingers did have the same pulse rate as the MH370 pingers — one ping per second. Searchers "believe the signals to be consistent with the specification and description of a flight data recorder," Houston said."

I googled one second interval pings for animal trackers

This archeologist claiming it could possibly be animals trackers fails to address whether or not the pulse rate on animal trackers also use one ping per second intervals. The pings detected by ocean shield were a steady 33.3khz, the second one lasting 2hrs20 minutes, all had the correct one ping per signal pulse rate. But were 33.3khz when a black box is supposed to be 37.5khz, they're saying factors like silt, fuselage shape etc can possibly distort the frequency. So they're not certain the plane is even off perth but what else could emit a consistent 33.5khz signal with the same pulse rate as an aircrafts black box? The signals then died and were no longer detected, it was assumed the batteries in the black boxes died.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I wonder how you would feel, Silver Ghia, if the shoe was on the other foot and your family was on board an aircraft that had mysteriously disappeared in an area that was Malaysia's responsibility (as assigned under international agreements) and they decided to cease the search because they have a poor population that they need to support?

I'm pretty confident your thoughts would be a little different then...?!?!

Craig H

Plus it's important to find out why the plane crashed into the ocean to hopefully prevent it happening again.
That's one way we reduce the incidence and severity of crashes worldwide

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Someone in the Search said a while ago "it really is like looking for a needle in a haystack..............we just have to find the haystack first"

(floating bolts ? )

The plane flew until around 8:19am, we have satellites covering every form of ground with photo's saved back from March 8th until this date. In a handful of those trillions of logged images we could even logically find a plane flying until 8:19am, as it was flying in broad daylight for 2hrs. More realistically if it's crashed in that spot off Perth where they're currently searching then we know if we look at the satellite imagery of those co ordinates we should see a plane crashing into the water at precisely March 8th at approx 8:19am. If not then at least see debris in those photo's for at least the 504hrs/3 weeks afterwards. The debris had to have floated the plane is not above the laws of physics. But not a trace in weeks of satellite photo's.

Debris on the surface not really a needle he was only referring to that in regards to the estimated 4.5km deep black bloxes. I wonder how it's possible for the plane to have crashed there and for the satellite photo's to reveal absolutely nothing?