Covid 19 - - Page 225

Work Horse · 30-09-2020, 10:36 PM

In February of this year a great mate of mine went to the doctors with a bit of a tummy ache. His appendix was removed a week later, cancer was found in his appendix, further tests showed it had spread. Scroll forward to this week, he is back home after the latest of several operation and has endured much Chemo. His stage 4 liver cancer statistically will kill him in 1-5 years. So we get around him, his wife and boys and make sure whatever time he has left is the best it can be.

There would be ten's of thousands of people in a similar situation, either dealing with an illness that means they rely on our health system or supporting someone who is.

This myth that is perpetuated that the response to Covid 19 is about prolonging the life of 1% of people that have one foot in the grave is just so much BS.

The mantra from the start of this pandemic was "flatten the curve so the health system is not over run".

If it gets away from us as it nearly did in Melbourne it will not just be the 1% that die, everyone relying on the health system will be affected.

**PG2** · 30-09-2020, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

My opinion of dealing with this virus is similar to Alan Jones perspective, that is, as per what the PM said in March or April, 99% of people will get over this with minor to mild symptoms. We need to get this country opened up to get the economy going.

We can be in furious agreement though regarding the economic outlook for next year and the year after. We're going to see the consequence of government protecting the 1 percenters next year. Job Keeper and Seeker has artificially kept some sectors of the economy going, the party ends March 2021. It's going to be interesting indeed.

I'm following what the banks are warning about, not the hype perpetrated by the real estate sector and the FOMO mini housing boom going on in WA.

Romulus, serious question, and I understand that it is sort of hypothetical. I apologise if you have already covered this.

If, in your mind, COVID was as serious as they/whoever are saying, would you be OK with the measures that have taken place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

...

I'm following what the banks are warning about, not the hype perpetrated by the real estate sector and the FOMO mini housing boom going on in WA.

I'm with you there. The son has just bought a house and I went with them to a few open houses. The way some of the real estate agents were carrying on they were either lying the backsides off or just plain stupid and/or ignorant to see what could be just around the corner next year.

Judging on what most of them are driving, there could be a few cheap 12 month old BMWs and Mercs for sale very soon.

hayseed · 30-09-2020, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

My opinion of dealing with this virus is similar to Alan Jones perspective,

Romulus · 30-09-2020, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

Romulus, serious question, and I understand that it is sort of hypothetical. I apologise if you have already covered this.

If, in your mind, COVID was as serious as they/whoever are saying, would you be OK with the measures that have taken place?

That's a vexed question. We were dealing with an unknown outbreak back in March, and the government did what it needed to do with the limited information available. I do recall however the Prime Minister saying that for most people they would have minor cold or influenza based symptoms and would recover. But, as Work Horse has stated in his previous response, for some people, this is not a minor issue, in fact, it is the exact opposite, and could result in serious complications or death. This is has been demonstrated by the number of elderly people and those who are immune compromised who've died from or with Covid.

Therein lies the problem for governments. Do we lock up the country to avoid spread of this virus, at the cost to the economy. Or does the country relax its controls, allow the virus to spread, and 'survival of the fittest' prevails? People elect governments, and for most people, this governance includes 'protecting them from a virus'. What happens if there is a 3rd, 4th or 5th outbreak? Do we introduce the same measures Victoria has gone through? Or can we take an approach NSW has done, which seems to have worked ok. No matter what approach is taken, we're going to see the transactional cost of protecting the people next year as I said before.

My position is I'm prepared to deal with the possibility catching this virus. I'm not confident a vaccine will work, RNA vaccines have been unsuccessful to date. I'd prefer the governments relaxed the use off off label medications, I'd prefer to discuss with my doctor the possibility of taking prophylactic medication (HCQ or other drugs that have been touted) rather than a bureaucrat deciding what I can or can't take. There's a lot to be said about the 'doctor-patient' relationship and it being overridden under the current circumstances.

To answer your question, I think the NSW approach has worked the best, Premier Gladys Berejiklian has done a good job.

xxx000 · 01-10-2020, 06:45 AM

It sounds to me like you wholeheartedly agree with Alan Jones and therein lies the problem.
Jones has a history of trying to run the country via the airwaves with his abrasive approach to most things.
He regularly ignores science and has been known to rally against something publically but actually support it. A walking contradiction or do as I say not as I do type of person.
His blatant political bias means he'll say whatever it takes to lead his listeners so Andrews was always doomed and Gladys praised whatever the reality.

Jones is probably the last person anyone should be taking Covid19 advice from

Citroënbender · 01-10-2020, 09:49 AM

I believe he’s in a demographic (by age) at greater risk of mortality if they contract this virus. So to some extent, he’s putting his own neck on the line.

Romulus · 01-10-2020, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx000

It sounds to me like you wholeheartedly agree with Alan Jones and therein lies the problem.
Jones has a history of trying to run the country via the airwaves with his abrasive approach to most things.
He regularly ignores science and has been known to rally against something publically but actually support it. A walking contradiction or do as I say not as I do type of person.
His blatant political bias means he'll say whatever it takes to lead his listeners so Andrews was always doomed and Gladys praised whatever the reality.

Jones is probably the last person anyone should be taking Covid19 advice from

Yep, whole heartedly agree with Jones on most of his positions. His position on matters is what made him #1 on the airwave for years on end to his listeners. Now he has an hour long segment on Skynews. You'd also have guessed by now I don't believe a thing from ABC, Ch. 7, 9, Ten or SBS. I'm not asking you to agree, you're entitled to your opinion. It's a problem for you, not me.

What do you recommend the government does to salvage the economy and deal with this virus?

Romulus · 01-10-2020, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I believe he’s in a demographic (by age) at greater risk of mortality if they contract this virus. So to some extent, he’s putting his own neck on the line.

If you're guessing my age, 46-50 group.

Citroënbender · 01-10-2020, 10:15 AM

No, Jonesy.

**russellw** · 01-10-2020, 10:55 AM

Data valid as at 23:58 GMT September 30th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

23 new cases for Australia and 4 deaths so the CMR rises to 3.272% while active cases drop to 1,438. NSW recorded 4 cases with the balance in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is now 17.43 with metro at 15.6 (19 unknown) and regional at 0.3 and no unknown cases. Victoria reported 15 new cases for the last 24 hours.

1 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.361% and active cases drop to 44.

The UK had a slightly lower 7,108 new cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they had 71 deaths again yesterday.

Just under 44.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 977 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.846% and active cases drop to 34.4% with the raw numbers rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 34M with the last 1M taking 4 days this time;
The USA completes 107M, India 74M, Russia 40M and Iran 4M tests;
Europe passes 5M cases;

Moldova (1,013), AE (1,100), Romania (2,518), Netherlands (3,294), Ukraine (4,027) and Argentina (14,392) all recorded a new daily high; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Despite only reporting occasionally, Guadeloupe has gone from very few cases to over 5k in a matter of weeks. Historically, they had ~50 cases during March and then none until ~70 at the end of July with another short gap before racking up ~990 cases in the last three weeks of August.

Let's look at this another way. To the end of July they had 244 total cases. By the end of August this had grown to 1,145 cases but this last month added another 4,383 cases to make that total 5,528.

Bear in mind that this is a small island with a population of ~400k so that's 1,381 cases per 100k and the 47 deaths equate to 11.7 / 100k.

Work Horse · 01-10-2020, 11:02 AM

It seems there is some magical thinking going on in this thread.

AKA the government response to the global pandemic is causing a rapid decline in the economy, rather than the pandemic is causing economic decline.

Therefore if we have no government response to the global pandemic there would be no economic decline, or if we have less government response we will have less economic decline.

Some wish it was that simple because it allows them to score political points.

Sweden! What about Sweden? It is true Sweden did not mandate a lock down. Swedish people still stayed home, economic activity declined and the economy still took a big hit. It was the pandemic that trashed Sweden’s economy not the government response.

There is no debating the world economy is in for a very rough time because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Attempting to lay the blame for the economic fall out on this government or that government will distract us from the huge challenge we need to face united. Remember the national cabinet at the start of this thing? That is how governments can work for the people that elected them, when they focus on us and not political point scoring for themselves. As has been said when this pandemic is over we will be feeling the economic repercussions for much longer.

PhilT2 · 01-10-2020, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

There is no debating the world economy is in for a very rough time because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Attempting to lay the blame for the economic fall out on this government or that government will distract us from the huge challenge we need to face united. Remember the national cabinet at the start of this thing? That is how governments can work for the people that elected them, when they focus on us and not political point scoring for themselves. As has been said when this pandemic is over we will be feeling the economic repercussions for much longer.

No matter what our govt does foreign tourists are not going to get on a plane with their fellow countrymen unless they can be confident of not getting infected on the trip. I would be interested in seeing the cost of a current travel insurance policy and what it will cover.
Foreign students are not going to come here either unless their parents feel they can travel and live here safely. Together these two sources of revenue account for a lot of our economy and there will not be a full recovery without them.
I still hold out hope that the rollout of a vaccine will put us into recovery in the latter part of next year. Two things are needed for that to happen; a massive effort to produce and distribute the shot and the scientists to get it right.

**PG2** · 01-10-2020, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilT2

No matter what our govt does foreign tourists are not going to get on a plane with their fellow countrymen unless they can be confident of not getting infected on the trip. I would be interested in seeing the cost of a current travel insurance policy and what it will cover.
Foreign students are not going to come here either unless their parents feel they can travel and live here safely. Together these two sources of revenue account for a lot of our economy and there will not be a full recovery without them.
I still hold out hope that the rollout of a vaccine will put us into recovery in the latter part of next year. Two things are needed for that to happen; a massive effort to produce and distribute the shot and the scientists to get it right.

To be honest, if a vaccine was to come out any time soon I would be a little hesitant. I hate needles at the best of times, but I'll be thinking twice before allowing someone to jab me with something that has not stood the test of time. Yep, I'm probably being a little selfish there but everyone else can be my guinea pig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

It seems there is some magical thinking going on in this thread.

AKA the government response to the global pandemic is causing a rapid decline in the economy, rather than the pandemic is causing economic decline.

Therefore if we have no government response to the global pandemic there would be no economic decline, or if we have less government response we will have less economic decline.

Some wish it was that simple because it allows them to score political points.

Sweden! What about Sweden? It is true Sweden did not mandate a lock down. Swedish people still stayed home, economic activity declined and the economy still took a big hit. It was the pandemic that trashed Sweden’s economy not the government response.

There is no debating the world economy is in for a very rough time because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Attempting to lay the blame for the economic fall out on this government or that government will distract us from the huge challenge we need to face united. Remember the national cabinet at the start of this thing? That is how governments can work for the people that elected them, when they focus on us and not political point scoring for themselves. As has been said when this pandemic is over we will be feeling the economic repercussions for much longer.

Just to clear something up, I don't think it is all doom and gloom, but I do think that a lot of people are in for a tough time over the next few years, maybe even many more years.

Wait until next year, when people start to struggle. The opposition will be jumping all over what the current Government has done or not done and how their ideas, while not disclosing any of their ideas, would have been so much better.

Wait until Labour get into Government next (I'm not knocking Labour), even if it is in 10 years time. I reckon that I would be at unbackable odds if I was to bet that they will refer to the current Government policies dealing with this situation and that is why they can't keep one, or many, of their election promises.

mick taylor · 01-10-2020, 01:08 PM

Covid 19 would of been a lot better to of just let it run and do it's thing, as such would of helped the economy boom, getting rid of all the dead wood that is on the Government handouts and all, many of the grubs who do not wash their hands ect would be gone as well.
but now we are going to be in a position that most Aussies will totally truly regret like no time in their lives in paying for this burden. that has really been unleashed on us all. such sounds stupid to say now but just you wait the effects to our economy will be way out of control for years to come, get ready for death duties to come back and 15% GST and your super will be smashed like you will not believe, not to mention they will have to tax that cash cow a lot more.
I think that the VIC Premier will have to leave Australia because I would not be surprised he will be hung in the street when the public come to understand the real damage of what he truly has done. he is a Labour Party man so such a one is totally ignorant of what the reality of business truly is all about in fact, such as they live in a fairy land off with the pixies. get ready for high taxes ! and high inflation.

BENT_8 · 01-10-2020, 01:23 PM

This thread is like days of our lives without the prolonged stare as it cuts to a break.

Work Horse · 01-10-2020, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This thread is like days of our lives without the prolonged stare as it cuts to a break.

You can activate that function in settings!

**GasoLane** · 01-10-2020, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This thread is like days of our lives without the prolonged stare as it cuts to a break.

That is something that only regular DOOL viewers would know about

xxx000 · 01-10-2020, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Yep, whole heartedly agree with Jones on most of his positions. His position on matters is what made him #1 on the airwave for years on end to his listeners. Now he has an hour long segment on Skynews. You'd also have guessed by now I don't believe a thing from ABC, Ch. 7, 9, Ten or SBS. I'm not asking you to agree, you're entitled to your opinion. It's a problem for you, not me.

What do you recommend the government does to salvage the economy and deal with this virus?

So I assume like him you:

Were against building the Toaster building in Macquarie St?

Wanted Bronwyn Bishop for PM?

Jones doesn't have listeners he has followers who don't seem to notice the numerous 180's he does on topics but enjoy being coaxed into anger most days.
He sadly believes that 'common sense' (his version of it) refutes science so he takes the anti science view frequently. He's an unwanted distraction in the battle against Covid19

Romulus · 01-10-2020, 03:16 PM

Yes, you assume.

What you’ve not done is provide a way out of this mess we’re in.

BENT_8 · 01-10-2020, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasoLane

That is something that only regular DOOL viewers would know about

So im told...

xxx000 · 01-10-2020, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Yes, you assume.

What you’ve not done is provide a way out of this mess we’re in.

I'm not a health care professional or an economist so can't do that.
Can you and what are your quals to back that up?

xxx000 · 01-10-2020, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Yes, you assume.

I was asking for confirmation or denial but got neither

Romulus · 01-10-2020, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx000

I'm not a health care professional or an economist so can't do that.

Edited. Not going to fall for your bait.

What’s you’re solution to this mess?

**buggerlugs** · 01-10-2020, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx000

So I assume like him you:

Were against building the Toaster building in Macquarie St?

Wanted Bronwyn Bishop for PM?

Jones doesn't have listeners he has followers who don't seem to notice the numerous 180's he does on topics but enjoy being coaxed into anger most days.
He sadly believes that 'common sense' (his version of it) refutes science so he takes the anti science view frequently. He's an unwanted distraction in the battle against Covid19

He doesn't mind on the odd occasion a nice public toilet either

BENT_8 · 01-10-2020, 03:47 PM

Got a rude shock yesterday, been on Jobkeeper since beginning of April which was due to be reduced on Sunday.
Our roster cycle is Monday to Sunday and figured anything earnt prior to midnight Sunday would be subsidized so it was quite a shock when i received my weekly pay slip yesterday and the top up was absent.
After doing a little digging it appears that because we get paid for the preceeding week on the following Wednesday and this Wednesday is after the reduction date, it doesnt qualify for the full subsidy.
Not complaining, its been very good but a stupid way to finish off as anyone ive spoken to figured last week would be included and has caught many off gaurd.

Romulus · 01-10-2020, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Got a rude shock yesterday, been on Jobkeeper since beginning of April which was due to be reduced on Sunday.
Our roster cycle is Monday to Sunday and figured anything earnt prior to midnight Sunday would be subsidized so it was quite a shock when i received my weekly pay slip yesterday and the top up was absent.
After doing a little digging it appears that because we get paid for the preceeding week on the following Wednesday and this Wednesday is after the reduction date, it doesnt qualify for the full subsidy.
Not complaining, its been very good but a stupid way to finish off as anyone ive spoken to figured last week would be included and has caught many off gaurd.

Now multiply this by the 1.4-1.7 million on job keeper.

BENT_8 · 01-10-2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Now multiply this by the 1.4-1.7 million on job keeper.

Yes, quite a saving by govco when you think about it.
They spruik the 6 months of $750pw subsidies but it looks as though its fallen 1 week short via a well concealed loophole that says all monies owed had to be paid by close of play on the 27th.

prydey · 01-10-2020, 04:50 PM

Isn't jobkeeper for employers?

PhilT2 · 01-10-2020, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

To be honest, if a vaccine was to come out any time soon I would be a little hesitant. I hate needles at the best of times, but I'll be thinking twice before allowing someone to jab me with something that has not stood the test of time.

The good news for those that hate jabs is that there are two alternatives under development; a nasal spray and an oral vaccine.
The bad news is these are in the early stages and are not the proven tech that the Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine uses. This shot should start its approval process in Europe this week.

BENT_8 · 01-10-2020, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Isn't jobkeeper for employers?

Sort of, its a wage subsidy paid to employers to keep staff on but the employer cant pay less than the $750pw theyre given, so they dont profit. In our case, were all casual and doing between 20 and 25hrs pw so at $27hr our basic wage is below the $750 but thats what we get minus tax, so $655 clear
As last week was the end of term we didnt have as much on so i only did 18hrs, 5 of that at what we call wait time where you get half rate for waiting for the return trip, but was under the impression id get one more pay at the full rate. Didnt happen because our pay wasnt processed by Sunday night so i only received the amount for the 18hrs worked which was $390 clear, as i said not complaining, just wasnt expecting a $265 shortfall this week.