Ford Ranger - milking the cow for every last drop..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Life is full of choices and it clear that Ford has made them for our market but intersting
that Ranger has been given a pass until about 2028, maybe ford is hoping to be off diesel by then…

Diesel is trash for light vehicles - fragile because of all their emissions bullshit, expensive to maintain, NVH issues with their clattery idle and rough characteristics.

Compared to the Ecoboost range, Ford's own diesel engines are junk.

It started out as a technology that could run on multiple fuels and it's turned into this picky fragile piece of shit that shits the bed the moment it doesn't get pristine diesel, the failures all cost four figures starting with a five and above to fix,

Not only does it need mint condition fuel, you now need to operate them in a very specific way or the emissions gear shits the bed.

Should be left for heavy commercial vehicles, ships and that sort of thing where you need that benefit a diesel engine suppliees

Anything 4500kg GVM and under doesn't need diesel and I'd also bet that sub 8000kg GVM doesn't need it either.

PHEV Ranger is going to be interesting with the 2.3 Ecoboost, if it does sub 10L/100km then diesel should be buried.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Looking forward to Ranger ST

I know you jest, but ST Badges on anything other than Focus/Fiesta is just whoring out the brand. But i guess now with the ST brand now pretty much gone they may aswell.


I agree re a street performance based ranger as you also posted, but dont put a bloody ST badge on it. But even with some decent suspension they'll be junk when turning but go like shit off a shovel in a straight line (much like XR6T/F6 utes ) but thats also what mericans love.

See so many pretty quick late model F trucks with either a V8 or the turbo 6.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I know you jest, but ST Badges on anything other than Focus/Fiesta is just whoring out the brand. But i guess now with the ST brand now pretty much gone they may aswell.


I agree re a street performance based ranger as you also posted, but dont put a bloody ST badge on it. But even with some decent suspension they'll be junk when turning but go like shit off a shovel in a straight line (much like XR6T/F6 utes ) but thats also what mericans love.

See so many pretty quick late model F trucks with either a V8 or the turbo 6.

It's a crime for sure to use the ST badge on a body on frame commercial vehicle that steers like the Costa Concordia

If you were digging through the archives of names to recycle, you could probably wheel our 'XR6 Turbo' for this concept but it wouldn't be appropriate for the 2.3L variant.

Maybe wheel out typhoon/tornado again eliminating the reference to 'F6'

As much as I lament the death of Ford Europe and their majestic hatches, I can appreciate a Ranger singl/dual cab that is a street/strip weapon, blue collar working class man supercar type job.

The Raptor kind of fits the bill but it's got a lot of compromises to be that off road focused weapon.

We've got this really popular class of vehicle we can justify spending some coin on and we're letting the opportunity pass by under our noses.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It's a crime for sure to use the ST badge on a body on frame commercial vehicle that steers like the Costa Concordia

If you were digging through the archives of names to recycle, you could probably wheel our 'XR6 Turbo' for this concept but it wouldn't be appropriate for the 2.3L variant.

Maybe wheel out typhoon/tornado again eliminating the reference to 'F6'

As much as I lament the death of Ford Europe and their majestic hatches, I can appreciate a Ranger single cab that is a street/strip weapon, blue collar working class man supercar type job.

We've got this really popular class of vehicle we can justify spending some coin on and we're letting the opportunity pass by under our noses.

Nah, if ford did make performance street ute they'd probably name it some make you think your a big man name like what toyota did with there hi lux rugged x.
Ford ranger testicle rolls off the tongue.....

[Franco Cozzo]

I like to think we could knock up a pretty good parts bin special Ranger with what we know is available across the entire T6 platform globally

Might have to source it out of South Africa instead of Thailand though because there's something to do with the Thailand plant not having access to 4 cylinder Ecoboost engines or something - the VW Amaranger Ecoboost comes out of South Africa for our market.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by prydey

According to the website that makes 9 models of Ranger, not including the different engine configurations.

XL, XLS, XLT, SPORT, WILDTRAK, TREMOR, BLACK, RAPTOR and PLATINUM.

So Ford Australia sells 9 different cars? That's impressive!

[EBSXR6]

Ford should have dropped a Godzilla into the Raptor instead of the horrible sounding V6.

[nibble]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Ford should have dropped a Godzilla into the Raptor instead of the horrible sounding V6.

Have you driven one? No, didn't think so.

[DFB FGXR6]

My desired Ranger variant doesn't yet exist, and never will. Probably because there aren't many nut jobs like me who would want such a beast.

Lets call it the Ranger DC (Daily Comfort) or Ranger XL P (Premium or Plus) -

- Single cab chassis
- 2WD
- Low ride height (all current gen Rangers are high riders regardless of cab or drivetrain layout)
- EcoBoost 2.3, or EcoBoost 2.7 V6 (don't care which, I'm just sick of diesel)
- 10 speed auto

- XLS exterior package, as in alloy wheels and less black plastic
- XL interior spec, as in vinyl floors
- Leather steering wheel, just because
- Please allow me to choose a colour other than white, black or grey.

For me, I don't daily drive a XL Single Cab Chassis because I'm cheap, but because it's the only model in the range that comes close to fulfilling my requirements. As in, two seats, a huge tray and secure driving dynamics that comes from the low ride height spec.

I have no need for a dual cab and the token gesture tray. I don't need carpet, or leather trim, or automated parking assist. I don't need high ride height to make the vehicle handle like its about to tip over at any moment. I don't want a noisy, all-or-nothing power/torque delivery. And I don't want to buy it for tax evasion purposes.

So, for those who need the single cab/large tray option, well it's a take it or leave it proposition. There is virtually no way of getting a better engine or for it to look like something other than a rental vehicle. Funny, that spec once existed.............it was called the Falcon Ute.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by nibble

Have you driven one? No, didn't think so.

Tell me you own a Raptor without telling me you own a Raptor

Its like people who live in Goonawarra in Sunbury, the moment someone has something critical to say all the Goonies come out of the woodwork to defend Goonawarra's honor.

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

My desired Ranger variant doesn't yet exist, and never will. Probably because there aren't many nut jobs like me who would want such a beast.

Lets call it the Ranger DC (Daily Comfort) or Ranger XL P (Premium or Plus) -

- Single cab chassis
- 2WD
- Low ride height (all current gen Rangers are high riders regardless of cab or drivetrain layout)
- EcoBoost 2.3, or EcoBoost 2.7 V6 (don't care which, I'm just sick of diesel)
- 10 speed auto

- XLS exterior package, as in alloy wheels and less black plastic
- XL interior spec, as in vinyl floors
- Leather steering wheel, just because
- Please allow me to choose a colour other than white, black or grey.

For me, I don't daily drive a XL Single Cab Chassis because I'm cheap, but because it's the only model in the range that comes close to fulfilling my requirements. As in, two seats, a huge tray and secure driving dynamics that comes from the low ride height spec.

I have no need for a dual cab and the token gesture tray. I don't need carpet, or leather trim, or automated parking assist. I don't need high ride height to make the vehicle handle like its about to tip over at any moment. I don't want a noisy, all-or-nothing power/torque delivery. And I don't want to buy it for tax evasion purposes.

So, for those who need the single cab/large tray option, well it's a take it or leave it proposition. There is virtually no way of getting a better engine or for it to look like something other than a rental vehicle. Funny, that spec once existed.............it was called the Falcon Ute.

Nutjob, or enlightened?

We're similar in our tastes in music and work vehicles - practicality doesn't mean it has to be a clattery, smelly, noisy and slow piece of shit (see small capacity diesel engines)

I'm also keen on the vinyl floors, I walk across various paddocks, fields and trod in all sorts of excrement as part of my work, which immediately ends up smooshed into the carpet of the vehicle I'm driving.

Love a good dog turd in my carpet, earlier this week it was the human variety from a sewage lagoon, and later this week it was from a horse.

I'm not fussed about povvo spec though, steel wheels are a bit more robust which suits me and my lack of mechanical sympathy.

[.:4:.]

Its probably redundant now, but a few years back there was a mob in queensland that would do coyote conversions on the then bi turbo ranger raptors. Customer had to supply the raptor and a known running mustang coyote. It was not a cheap conversion in the slightest and with the new 3L v6 making a tad less but still comparable power it makes no financial sense.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Its probably redundant now, but a few years back there was a mob in queensland that would do coyote conversions on the then bi turbo ranger raptors. Customer had to supply the raptor and a known running mustang coyote. It was not a cheap conversion in the slightest and with the new 3L v6 making a tad less but still comparable power it makes no financial sense.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064636451660

You'll have people who want 8 cylinders and who have the ability to pay for it, they've got a pretty successful business converting Thailand Specials to 8 cylinders.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064636451660

You'll have people who want 8 cylinders and who have the ability to pay for it, they've got a pretty successful business converting Thailand Specials to 8 cylinders.

I would assume the RAM and Chev options would have killed V8 conversions.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Diesel is trash for light vehicles - fragile because of all their emissions bullshit, expensive to maintain, NVH issues with their clattery idle and rough characteristics.

Compared to the Ecoboost range, Ford's own diesel engines are junk.

It started out as a technology that could run on multiple fuels and it's turned into this picky fragile piece of shit that shits the bed the moment it doesn't get pristine diesel, the failures all cost four figures starting with a five and above to fix,

Not only does it need mint condition fuel, you now need to operate them in a very specific way or the emissions gear shits the bed.

Should be left for heavy commercial vehicles, ships and that sort of thing where you need that benefit a diesel engine suppliees

Anything 4500kg GVM and under doesn't need diesel and I'd also bet that sub 8000kg GVM doesn't need it either.

PHEV Ranger is going to be interesting with the 2.3 Ecoboost, if it does sub 10L/100km then diesel should be buried.

Judging by rival Toyota’s 2.4 turbo hybrid, the difference in fuel economy compared to
the current diesel appears to be similar which is why they delayed its introduction to the latest Hilux.
The 2.4 T Hybrid Tacoma is not all that fantastic with respect to performance or fuel economy…

The point with the Ford diesels is noted but the final delivery of V6 diesel is something
that arguably the first PX should have had to really gap Toyota all those years ago.
Full credit to Ford showing a marked differnce to Toyota and its chug chug four cylinders..
If the PX Ranger had the Terry’s 2.7 diesel, I would have bought one myself years ago…

Don’t get me wrong,
The 2.7 Ecoboost is an amazing engine, completely sabotaged by a supplier delivering a ton of
exhaust valves with either improper or no heat treatment losing the valve heads without warning.
But for that delinquent action, I would have no qualms recommending that engine for our market.

Given a differnt choice, something simple like 2.7 EB hybrid with a small battery pack is
probably perfect replacement for V6 diesel but may fall on deaf ears because that’s not the plan….
The 2.3 EB PHEV is an exciting Ddevelopment because of gives Ford a pathway in Europe as well
and by trickle down, we should get that option as well, on site power for campers and tradies
is another big plus. At least it gives something to look forward to.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Judging by rival Toyota’s 2.4 turbo hybrid, the difference in fuel economy compared to
the current diesel appears to be similar which is why they delayed its introduction to the latest Hilux.
The 2.4 T Hybrid Tacoma is not all that fantastic with respect to performance or fuel economy…

The point with the Ford diesels is noted but the final delivery of V6 diesel is something
that arguably the first PX should have had to really gap Toyota all those years ago.
Full credit to Ford showing a marked differnce to Toyota and its chug chug four cylinders..
If the PX Ranger had the Terry’s 2.7 diesel, I would have bought one myself years ago…

Don’t get me wrong,
The 2.7 Ecoboost is an amazing engine, completely sabotaged by a supplier delivering a ton of
exhaust valves with either improper or no heat treatment losing the valve heads without warning.
But for that delinquent action, I would have no qualms recommending that engine for our market.

Given a differnt choice, something simple like 2.7 EB hybrid with a small battery pack is
probably perfect replacement for V6 diesel but may fall on deaf ears because that’s not the plan….
The 2.3 EB PHEV is an exciting Ddevelopment because of gives Ford a pathway in Europe as well
and by trickle down, we should get that option as well, on site power for campers and tradies
is another big plus. At least it gives something to look forward to.

Agree on all points - I think with the PX they probably wanted to save money which is why the ancient 3.2L I5 got the go ahead, I think it was originally from the Transit.

Mind you the 3.2L I5 wasn't bad at the time, just a bit halal on the NVH compared to the passenger vehicle focused diesel engines.

Wonder if the 2.7L V6 didn't meet durability requirements for a LCV platform? I'm sure our resident ex-Ford Australia engineer could probably chime in here.

Surely there was a reason for it, or maybe initial price point of the PX Ranger was an issue to fit something like the 2.7L V6 - it was introduced at $19,990 DA for the 2.5L unleaded job.

I'd like the USDM options of non-hybrid too, I like consumers having a good range of choice.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Diesel is trash for light vehicles - fragile because of all their emissions bullshit, expensive to maintain, NVH issues with their clattery idle and rough characteristics.

Compared to the Ecoboost range, Ford's own diesel engines are junk.

It started out as a technology that could run on multiple fuels and it's turned into this picky fragile piece of shit that shits the bed the moment it doesn't get pristine diesel, the failures all cost four figures starting with a five and above to fix,

Not only does it need mint condition fuel, you now need to operate them in a very specific way or the emissions gear shits the bed.

Should be left for heavy commercial vehicles, ships and that sort of thing where you need that benefit a diesel engine suppliees

Anything 4500kg GVM and under doesn't need diesel and I'd also bet that sub 8000kg GVM doesn't need it either.

PHEV Ranger is going to be interesting with the 2.3 Ecoboost, if it does sub 10L/100km then diesel should be buried.

I know anecdotes aren't evidence to the contrary but I owned a diesel Territory for over 100k km and it never missed a beat. Documented on here even. Only ever required normal maintenance as far as the driveline was concerned.

I don't get the hate for diesel. You put it in the tank. Drive around until it's empty and then put more in. Same as any fuel. My Everest is the same. The fuel type doesn't even register when using it. Why should it?

As you get older (grow up) you realise vehicles are for transport and they tend to last a lot longer when left alone.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

I know anecdotes aren't evidence to the contrary but I owned a diesel Territory for over 100k km and it never missed a beat. Documented on here even. Only ever required normal maintenance as far as the driveline was concerned.

I don't get the hate for diesel. You put it in the tank. Drive around until it's empty and then put more in. Same as any fuel. My Everest is the same. The fuel type doesn't even register when using it. Why should it?

As you get older (grow up) you realise vehicles are for transport and they tend to last a lot longer when left alone.

What do you even mean it doesn't matter what fuel goes into it? You can tell something is diesel the moment you start it and it goes into that horrid clattery idle.

You pay more in service and maintenance costs, god forbid you need to pay for repairs to their fragile fuel injection systems or emissions gear like the DPF. Its also horrible for the environment and peoples health with their PM2.5 emissions.

The way they drive with their limited torque curve, you look at the torque and power characteristics of the Ford Ecoboost engines compared to their diesel equivalents, my Fiesta ST comes on peak torque at 1500 RPM and holds it all the way to 5000 RPM.

It literally makes the same amount of torque as my TDCI Focus did, 500 RPM earlier, and holds it circa 2000 RPM longer, while making 59KW more power.

Look at the specs of the Bi Turbo diesel in the Ranger:



It holds its peak torque for a grand total of 250 RPM.

You look at the torque curve of the 2.3L ecoboost engine and while it makes a little less torque and its peak is later, it holds a significant chunk earlier and longer than the diesel.

I come from an vehicle repair background,

I've seen it all from injector failures, through to injection pumps, DPF failures, which are the big three common ones that came through the workshop

I've done injectors on VDJ79 Land Cruisers which was $10,000 in parts alone to a customer, also injectors in KUN26R Hilux, they were over a thousand bucks each - these aren't isolated examples either where it was only one or two vehicles, it was like HF V6 Commodores and their timing chains.

Diagnosed (and fixed) a couple DPF issues on VWs, one was lucky that I managed to clear it out with an 'Italian tuneup' by beating the shit out of it up and over Mount Macedon a couple times, the other one wasn't so lucky when she bought a diesel VW Golf because it won 'car of the year' and then she promptly ****ed the DPF when she was driving it around town, which the VW dealership dropped her like a dog turd claiming she wasn't using the car properly so rejected it under warranty grounds.

$8000 filter in the exhaust because 'she didn't drive the car properly', she's an old lady who drives around locally a couple times a week, why did you sell her something that's not fit for her use case?

I've got no issue with diesel engines, on the proviso its in the right application, the Thailand Special or an SUV isn't the right application for them, especially in this day and age with modern unleaded forced induction options.

I own a diesel vehicle, she's a baby at only 503ci

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

My desired Ranger variant doesn't yet exist, and never will. Probably because there aren't many nut jobs like me who would want such a beast.

Lets call it the Ranger DC (Daily Comfort) or Ranger XL P (Premium or Plus) -

- Single cab chassis
- 2WD
- Low ride height (all current gen Rangers are high riders regardless of cab or drivetrain layout)
- EcoBoost 2.3, or EcoBoost 2.7 V6 (don't care which, I'm just sick of diesel)
- 10 speed auto

- XLS exterior package, as in alloy wheels and less black plastic
- XL interior spec, as in vinyl floors
- Leather steering wheel, just because
- Please allow me to choose a colour other than white, black or grey.

For me, I don't daily drive a XL Single Cab Chassis because I'm cheap, but because it's the only model in the range that comes close to fulfilling my requirements. As in, two seats, a huge tray and secure driving dynamics that comes from the low ride height spec.

I have no need for a dual cab and the token gesture tray. I don't need carpet, or leather trim, or automated parking assist. I don't need high ride height to make the vehicle handle like its about to tip over at any moment. I don't want a noisy, all-or-nothing power/torque delivery. And I don't want to buy it for tax evasion purposes.

So, for those who need the single cab/large tray option, well it's a take it or leave it proposition. There is virtually no way of getting a better engine or for it to look like something other than a rental vehicle. Funny, that spec once existed.............it was called the Falcon Ute.

Do Toyota still do a low rider single cab Hilux ute with the 2.7 and rubber floor mats? Might be a bit hectic with no weight in the back.
Comfort is optional from the ones I drove.

Is there a base F-150 for sale here, or are they all dual cab and top spec?

It's hard to replace the Falcon ute. There's a big gap in the market.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Agree on all points - I think with the PX they probably wanted to save money which is why the ancient 3.2L I5 got the go ahead, I think it was originally from the Transit.

Mind you the 3.2L I5 wasn't bad at the time, just a bit halal on the NVH compared to the passenger vehicle focused diesel engines.

Wonder if the 2.7L V6 didn't meet durability requirements for a LCV platform? I'm sure our resident ex-Ford Australia engineer could probably chime in here.

Surely there was a reason for it, or maybe initial price point of the PX Ranger was an issue to fit something like the 2.7L V6 - it was introduced at $19,990 DA for the 2.5L unleaded job.

I'd like the USDM options of non-hybrid too, I like consumers having a good range of choice.

In my opinion, that 3.2 I5 engine is responsible for the Ranger's rise to the top of the class, both in sales and reputation. For a while there, every other competitor had a smaller top spec engine, both in cylinder count and capacity. Sure, the Nissan had the V6, but that was short lived. But yes, that engine was old when it found its final home in the Ranger, and yes it was a noisy bugger. I kinda liked its gruff warble.

For clarification, are you talking about the 2.7 V6 Diesel or the 2.7 EcoBoost V6? Because the 2.7 EcoBoost was originally intended for commercial use in the F-150.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

In my opinion, that 3.2 I5 engine is responsible for the Ranger's rise to the top of the class, both in sales and reputation. For a while there, every other competitor had a smaller top spec engine, both in cylinder count and capacity. Sure, the Nissan had the V6, but that was short lived. But yes, that engine was old when it found its final home in the Ranger, and yes it was a noisy bugger. I kinda liked its gruff warble.

For clarification, are you talking about the 2.7 V6 Diesel or the 2.7 EcoBoost V6? Because the 2.7 EcoBoost was originally intended for commercial use in the F-150.

2.7L Diesel in the Territory, there'd be a reason for it why it didn't get the go ahead in the PX Ranger when it was available.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What do you even mean it doesn't matter what fuel goes into it? You can tell something is diesel the moment you start it and it goes into that horrid clattery idle.
)

One could just as easily ask, how can you not like the sound of a diesel?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

One could just as easily ask, how can you not like the sound of a diesel?

I actually quite like the sound of a diesel V6, for some reason it removes nearly all of that rattle present in 4-pot diesels. Having driven the 2.7 V6 Territory, it was a superb engine, super smooth and a lovely, subdued purr.

Funny, for diesels I prefer the V6 layout, for petrol I prefer the inline 6 layout.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

One could just as easily ask, how can you not like the sound of a diesel?

I love the sound of diesel engines, but only ones that happen to be two stroke and 8 cylinders

End of the day the Thailand Special and their accompanying SUV aren't enthusiast vehicles, they're going to be used as pseudo family cars because its a 'do everything' vehicle (or work cars)

Which means someones wife is likely going to be driving it, and I'm sure if she had an option of one which didn't make that horrid clattery noise on idle and she didn't get diesel on her hands every time she touches the bowser to fill it up, she'd probably prefer the unleaded option thats quieter, cheaper to maintain and cleaner to fill.

Even as 'work cars', I'm not too sure, rocked up to a tender meeting in Wodonga earlier this week, and someone rocked up in a Porsche Macan Turbo and the majority had F150s and Chevrolet Silverados and me in me Fiesta

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Look at the specs of the Bi Turbo diesel in the Ranger:

image

It holds its peak torque for a grand total of 250 RPM.

You look at the torque curve of the 2.3L ecoboost engine and while it makes a little less torque and its peak is later, it holds a significant chunk earlier and longer than the diesel.

I )

Do you have a graph of the 2.3L torque curve?

People often quote the relatively narrow 'peak' torque band of the bi-turbo with the idea that it has a narrow torque band. It's actually quite broad.
This is a graph given by Simon on the release of the bi-turbo.


I can confirm torque is very good in real life.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I love the sound of diesel engines, but only ones that happen to be two stroke and 8 cylinders

End of the day the Thailand Special and their accompanying SUV aren't enthusiast vehicles, they're going to be used as pseudo family cars because its a 'do everything' vehicle (or work cars)

Which means someones wife is likely going to be driving it, and I'm sure if she had an option of one which didn't make that horrid clattery noise on idle and she didn't get diesel on her hands every time she touches the bowser to fill it up, she'd probably prefer the unleaded option thats quieter, cheaper to maintain and cleaner to fill.

Even as 'work cars', I'm not too sure, rocked up to a tender meeting in Wodonga earlier this week, and someone rocked up in a Porsche Macan Turbo and the majority had F150s and Chevrolet Silverados and me in me Fiesta

You do realise you are speculating about how other people 'should' live, right.

It's not a 'pseudo' family car if in fact it is a family car.

My wife drove my territory and loved it. She loves the Everest also. Her own cars in that time was a LS focus and now a ZH Escape. There is no 'dread' when she has to use the larger car, or me having to force her.

As for being covered in diesel.... Again, over 7 years of usage and never found it a problem. Never been covered in diesel and more than equivalent petrol.

It's probably something that gets airtime from the toorak tractor types, who would probably complain about all sorts of non issues.

[Sprintey]

Wonder how the Thai specials and their wagons would go with 2.5L petrol NA and hybrid - probably best of all worlds for their real use.

None available as such at present? The US is getting a hybrid petrol Prado, we might see it soon, and there's a hybrid Forester with the real Toyota system coming in 2025.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wonder how the Thai specials and their wagons would go with 2.5L petrol NA and hybrid - probably best of all worlds for their real use.

None available as such at present? The US is getting a hybrid petrol Prado, we might see it soon, and there's a hybrid Forester with the real Toyota system coming in 2025.

Would be absolute trash, it would be an absolute slug with a 2.5L naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by prydey

You do realise you are speculating about how other people 'should' live, right.

It's not a 'pseudo' family car if in fact it is a family car.

My wife drove my territory and loved it. She loves the Everest also. Her own cars in that time was a LS focus and now a ZH Escape. There is no 'dread' when she has to use the larger car, or me having to force her.

As for being covered in diesel.... Again, over 7 years of usage and never found it a problem. Never been covered in diesel and more than equivalent petrol.

It's probably something that gets airtime from the toorak tractor types, who would probably complain about all sorts of non issues.

When we purchased our Tucson.
We drove all 3.
2L Petrol N/A - rubbish.
1.6L turbo petrol - Not bad but had DCT.
2L Diesel - Best of them all really and proper auto.

Its not noisy really. (you know its a diesel)
Much more torque (it does lag a little but once going its no issue).
Never spilt diesel, my ute spills more out of the filler tube!
Only thing i noticed was the smell when refuelling but its hardly an issue.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wonder how the Thai specials and their wagons would go with 2.5L petrol NA and hybrid - probably best of all worlds for their real use.

None available as such at present? The US is getting a hybrid petrol Prado, we might see it soon, and there's a hybrid Forester with the real Toyota system coming in 2025.

That engine is actually a 2.4 turbo with hybrid in the Tacoma Ute, Prado platform but slightly bigger than Hilux
I recon that Ford already has it covered with the 2.3 EB PHEV, whenever it arrives…

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What do you even mean it doesn't matter what fuel goes into it? You can tell something is diesel the moment you start it and it goes into that horrid clattery idle.

You pay more in service and maintenance costs, god forbid you need to pay for repairs to their fragile fuel injection systems or emissions gear like the DPF. Its also horrible for the environment and peoples health with their PM2.5 emissions.

The way they drive with their limited torque curve, you look at the torque and power characteristics of the Ford Ecoboost engines compared to their diesel equivalents, my Fiesta ST comes on peak torque at 1500 RPM and holds it all the way to 5000 RPM.

It literally makes the same amount of torque as my TDCI Focus did, 500 RPM earlier, and holds it circa 2000 RPM longer, while making 59KW more power.

Look at the specs of the Bi Turbo diesel in the Ranger:

image

It holds its peak torque for a grand total of 250 RPM.

You look at the torque curve of the 2.3L ecoboost engine and while it makes a little less torque and its peak is later, it holds a significant chunk earlier and longer than the diesel.

I come from an vehicle repair background,

I've seen it all from injector failures, through to injection pumps, DPF failures, which are the big three common ones that came through the workshop

I've done injectors on VDJ79 Land Cruisers which was $10,000 in parts alone to a customer, also injectors in KUN26R Hilux, they were over a thousand bucks each - these aren't isolated examples either where it was only one or two vehicles, it was like HF V6 Commodores and their timing chains.

Diagnosed (and fixed) a couple DPF issues on VWs, one was lucky that I managed to clear it out with an 'Italian tuneup' by beating the shit out of it up and over Mount Macedon a couple times, the other one wasn't so lucky when she bought a diesel VW Golf because it won 'car of the year' and then she promptly ****ed the DPF when she was driving it around town, which the VW dealership dropped her like a dog turd claiming she wasn't using the car properly so rejected it under warranty grounds.

$8000 filter in the exhaust because 'she didn't drive the car properly', she's an old lady who drives around locally a couple times a week, why did you sell her something that's not fit for her use case?

I've got no issue with diesel engines, on the proviso its in the right application, the Thailand Special or an SUV isn't the right application for them, especially in this day and age with modern unleaded forced induction options.

I own a diesel vehicle, she's a baby at only 503ci

Problem is modern small capacity direct inject turbo petrol engines are also having longevity and reliability issues.
It’s pretty much a given the Euros are going to give dramas but even Toyota and Honda are having turbo petrol engines shit themselves.
It’s more indicative modern cars are trash regardless of what fuel powers them.
It started when manufacturers stopped including ash trays in vehicles.