Is the XR8 getting the boot next year? - Page 2

Fireblade · 12-10-2009, 11:45 PM

Never said it needed a competitor, and it is good that it doesn't because then ford can supply something nobody else has

flappist · 12-10-2009, 11:59 PM

I would place the GT-E/F6-E as direct competition for the HSV Senator.

FPV GTHO · 13-10-2009, 02:41 AM

Cant see it happening. As ive said before, Ford would still be heavily involved in V8 development whether they marketed one or not. FPV simply does not have the resources to take on everything for the V8. Ford would also be interested in getting the V8 back into the utes and available through the range, particularly having a V8 one tonner available.

merlin · 13-10-2009, 09:00 AM

It would be a shame to drop the XR nameplate (wether 6 or 8). I think it has large brand recognition within the general public whereas no-one knows what the hell a "GS" is except some of you blokes from the 70's.

I think Ford/FPV keep making this mistake over and over and over.

They build up a simple easily recognisable brand name then drop it - I'm a big Ford fan but I struggle to recognise all these complicated initals - what the hell is a FPV F6-E. It just means nothing to me.

Your in a conversation and you say - "Oh hi I own a FPV F6-E". It just sounds absolutly stupid. Senator, Clubsport and GTS are all instantly recognisable names in comparison.

XR8 sales are down simply due to the engine - like it or not it has the PERCEPTION of being a big heavy boat anchor. Get the Coyote in there and I think things would turn around (especially if it was supercharged).

Supercharged V8's from XR8 to GT with internal differences and lower boost in the XR8 - this could easily be done for the price charged on an XR8 ($45K to $50K) - other brands can acheive forced induction performance cars for less than this - Lancer Ralliart, WRX, Golf GTi - hell even XR6T proved that. I know if I was looking and had the choice between an N/A SS and a supercharged XR8 for the same money it would be a no brainer. Ford will be too scared of Holden and too conservative as usual though.

JPFS1 · 13-10-2009, 09:23 AM

Unless Ford take a much more dominant position in the ownership of FPV, then they will continue with their own V8 lineup.

Put simply, and for various reasons, if there's no Ford V8, there's no FPV V8.

King Nothing · 13-10-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Unless Ford take a much more dominant position in the ownership of FPV, then they will continue with their own V8 lineup.

Put simply, and for various reasons, if there's no Ford V8, there's no FPV V8.

I agree. If ford do not need to engineer the falcon for a V8, as there is no V8 in their line-up, then FPV do not have the resources to do so. FPV need a falcon that is already designed for a V8. And I can't see ford wanting to do all the development, testing, etc for a product they don't sell. The only way it would work would be if ford and FPV become more ingrained. But that would defeat the purpose of FPV anyway.

I think the GS was simply made to help shift a few boss V8s before coyote comes in. Ford/FPV would have been looking at sales figures for V8s versus what they need to sell and saw a deficit. I could be wrong, but that makes more sense to me than the V8 falcon vanishing (again), leaving FPV with the majority of costs.

GeckoGT, while I agree that the XR name has lost some credibility, I don't think it's entirely a bad thing. Selling more XRs as opposed to XTs means ford are making more money per car.

geckoGT · 13-10-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Nothing

I agree. If ford do not need to engineer the falcon for a V8, as there is no V8 in their line-up, then FPV do not have the resources to do so. FPV need a falcon that is already designed for a V8. And I can't see ford wanting to do all the development, testing, etc for a product they don't sell. The only way it would work would be if ford and FPV become more ingrained. But that would defeat the purpose of FPV anyway.

I think the GS was simply made to help shift a few boss V8s before coyote comes in. Ford/FPV would have been looking at sales figures for V8s versus what they need to sell and saw a deficit. I could be wrong, but that makes more sense to me than the V8 falcon vanishing (again), leaving FPV with the majority of costs.

GeckoGT, while I agree that the XR name has lost some credibility, I don't think it's entirely a bad thing. Selling more XRs as opposed to XTs means ford are making more money per car.

Your first paragraph probably states more clearly what I was trying to say, the model shifting will require Ford and FPV to be more integrated for it to be viable from a business perspective. This will make FPV just a part of Ford and not the seperate entity they really need to lose the "kitted up falcon" feel about their product.

I agree with you that it is good they are selling more cars on the back of the XR6 sales success. However this is not a good thing from the performance car buyer perspective, XR6 fleet sales make the name nothing special. This is to a point that some clubs have select membership to XR and FPV series cars, but why XR6 when it really is no longer the performance Ford, it just looks like one? I am sorry but this really is another example of Ford spending time and money building a brand image and then watering it down to nothing.

Personally, I would prefer they protect the XR name and keep FPV special. Heres how I as a Ford enthusiast would like to see it happen.

Keep FPV out of all fleet and police sales.

Keep the XR6T and XR8 in the Ford range as the Ford high performance models.

With the introduction of the coyote, seriously investigate the value in creating a G6E V8 to run alongside the G6ET.

Back to ducking for cover now!

**DJR-351** · 13-10-2009, 11:08 AM

If FoA dropped the V8 from it's range then how would this affect the V8SC??

I know the connection between the road going car and the track car is tenuous at best, but surely this would have to sound the death knell for the Falcon v Holden V8's....

Unless as mentioned Ford/FPV become a more intergrated company....

Quasi · 13-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damozxr6

hope u guys are wrong!

Yeah, means I'll NEVER own a new Ford v8. Even if I could afford a friggin' FPV I have more important things to put my money into.

Bossxr8 · 13-10-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

And with a 5.8L coyote (XR8/GS) and the 6.2L Boss (GT) it would seem an ideal sort of V8 lineup. Since the Boss seems to have far more potential with a DOHC Frankenstein job (unlike the 5.4 boss, not saying it's bad, just couldve been better).

Despite what some magazines might write there is no such 5.8 version of the Coyote. It simply does not exist.

And the 6.2 is truck only, with only Super Duty F series and the SVT Raptor using it.

irlewy86 · 13-10-2009, 05:28 PM

I just don't see the point in dropping a model when a new engine is coming on deck. I can see the dillema Ford has but surely its worth while giving the Coyote a go. If it still doesn't pick up give it the boot then.

**TUF_302** · 13-10-2009, 06:07 PM

How can the GS replace the XR8 when its a limited release?

tezxr8man · 13-10-2009, 10:01 PM

Ford since the Ba have turned the XR series into a watered down lame version of what it 1nce stood for affordable performance why wouldnt ford have a base model V8 like back in the day it worked in the EL the base V8 and 6 then the XR's then the GT why is it so hard when its so obvious.
Give the XR's more power and exclusivity and wind the wick up again for the F6 and GT

Ford have killed what the XR brand stood for like the Fairlane by making it boring

JutroXR8 · 14-10-2009, 01:15 PM

Who cares if the XR8 was no longer in the Ford stable. It'll just go back to the days when Tickford did all the XR8's and T-series/GT's vehicles. People still purchased the XR8 and the T-Series/GT's.

R-Design · 14-10-2009, 01:32 PM

I think this is the article some have mentioned earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarPoint

"However, the V8 still has its place and we're not going to change anything as far as the V8 line-up is concerned. The things we're doing with FPV is about a different kind of performance, branded under the FPV brand as opposed to the customer that buys the XR8. Particularly the XR8 in Utes, lifestyle vehicles, and even some XR8s in the sedan, but it's really the lifestyle utes that attract the V8 buyer."

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...-for-now-16640

Joe5619 · 14-10-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

why wouldnt ford have a base model V8 like back in the day it worked in the EL the base V8 and 6 then the XR's then the GT why is it so hard when its so obvious.

Probably becuase "back in the day" of EL Ford sold 95K Falcons a year, now they are luck to sell 30K!! People are not buying Falcons like they once use to!! A V8 in base XT model would be a complete watse of time, space & money in the year 2009 IMO!!

T3ts50 · 14-10-2009, 02:14 PM

Does anyone know how much it costs to insure a GS over an XR8. I'm only guessing here but with an FPV badge on it, it might be considerably more. I know of a few people who have choosen an SSV over a Clubbie for this very reason.

onfire · 14-10-2009, 02:40 PM

I don't think any internal factors, such as damaging the XR brand name through making it a mainstream product is the problem, if there is one at all.

Think green, think the perceptions that have been pumped down people's throats for the last 5 or 6 years about bigger cars, emissions and global warming, if anything is damaging the V8 image and brand names in general, it would be the work of climate change scar tactics.

I think making the XR series mainstream with the BA series was a good idea, to me, the XR series is the sports sedan of the common people, along with Holden's SS.

With the GS being a limited run, I always thought the idea was to offer a FPV option on an XR8 or similar budget.

Serial_Fool · 14-10-2009, 02:57 PM

By comparison all the V8 Falcons since the originial BA falcon have been dwarfed by equivilent turbo 6 in every sense apart from the V8 sound coming from the exhaust. Sales have suffered accordingly with Ford refusing to improve upon the engine any further for over 6 years. V8 fans with no particular allegence have gone with Holden.

Put a v8 engine faster than the turbo 6/ holden v8 into the XR8/GT and see the improvement in sales. The v8 will become the halo car of the range again just like it always has been with Holden/hsv.

V8s still resonate with people, just check out the numbers of v8s Holden are selling.

GTpilot · 14-10-2009, 03:17 PM

Perhaps the XR8 is being ditched as suggested and the entry level FPV will be the GT-H (H for Hack)

:

LTDterri · 14-10-2009, 03:31 PM

I know it costs the company a lot but why can you not offer a V8 accross the entire range...sure there will be a price premium but those who really want one will pay that price. no sports V8 (XR8) no luxury V8 (G6E), no V8 ute, no LWB V8 (fairlane,LTD), so where do the punters go to find these type of vehicles....you guessed it the Red team, they seem to be able to offer them. BAD IDEA FORD

**FTE217** · 14-10-2009, 03:34 PM

or GT-Has Been........

mininote · 14-10-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Does anyone know how much it costs to insure a GS over an XR8. I'm only guessing here but with an FPV badge on it, it might be considerably more. I know of a few people who have choosen an SSV over a Clubbie for this very reason.

my FPV GS cost $502 per annum for full insurance (incl. windscreen replacement option, no hire car or other option though) thats pretty cheap i thought, im 38, full NCB fwiw

08GHIA · 14-10-2009, 04:33 PM

Thats why heard recently, just traded by BF Ghia on new FPV GS, had it for a week and loving it! Black 6sp manual 302kw

mininote · 14-10-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08GHIA

Thats why heard recently, just traded by BF Ghia on new FPV GS, had it for a week and loving it! Black 6sp manual 302kw

welcome to GS club

: awfully addictive aint it!!

vztrt · 14-10-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JutroXR8

Who cares if the XR8 was no longer in the Ford stable. It'll just go back to the days when Tickford did all the XR8's and T-series/GT's vehicles. People still purchased the XR8 and the T-Series/GT's.

But if it goes alon the lines of the GS model, your gonna pay an extra 10k for a V8 cause it has an FPV badge.

FPV8U · 14-10-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Does anyone know how much it costs to insure a GS over an XR8. I'm only guessing here but with an FPV badge on it, it might be considerably more. I know of a few people who have choosen an SSV over a Clubbie for this very reason.

Agreed a mate of mine has a VZ R8 & His insurance is worse than mine and my driving history isn't exactly straight... and his is 100% Clear.

big_landau · 14-10-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

If FoA dropped the V8 from it's range then how would this affect the V8SC??

I know the connection between the road going car and the track car is tenuous at best, but surely this would have to sound the death knell for the Falcon v Holden V8's....

Unless as mentioned Ford/FPV become a more intergrated company....

makes you wonder as i thought v8 supercars were based on the falcon xr8 and the ss crumpledoor?

**SSD-85** · 14-10-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Despite what some magazines might write there is no such 5.8 version of the Coyote. It simply does not exist.

And the 6.2 is truck only, with only Super Duty F series and the SVT Raptor using it.

It has been pointed out the coyote theorectically supports displacements of 5.8L. And the 5.4 block in aust. fords is the US truck block. Im sure Ford aus. can repeat it with the 6.2L.....

Bossxr8 · 17-10-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

It has been pointed out the coyote theorectically supports displacements of 5.8L. And the 5.4 block in aust. fords is the US truck block. Im sure Ford aus. can repeat it with the 6.2L.....

5.4 was never truck only, as shown by the GT500 and Cobra R.

6.2 is truck only, will not be used in passenger vehicles. Too big, too heavy, which won't fix the current Boss's handling problems.

Next years line up will be 5 litre only in NA and SC forms.