August 2008 VFACTS

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by djst

I think a big reason for the difference between the Commodore and Falcon is simply looks.
People like to show off their shiny new toy,as vein as it sounds.
The Commodore has more street presence than the new Falcon.
I have been driving the new Fg at work and it is a great car,but most guys at work think its cooler to be in the Holden,some even admitting the fg is the better car,but they would rather be seen in the Commodore,as they say it looks tuff and its a Holden.

No offence intended mate, but to me those guys sound like a load of W@nk3rs, I mean seriously saying one car is better full stop, but you would rather be seen in the other shows just how shallow and insignificant some peoples opinions are.

Sadly though that IS what mattters, because Holden are selling more, and thus Ford are fighting a losing battle, if you are selling a substantially better car, and are still being beaten in the sales race, then nothing you can do will change that. If people are stupid enough to constantly buy the inferior car because, as you say, "I would rather be seen in a Holden" than their is nothing much Ford can do.

[unclesam]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

No offence intended mate, but to me those guys sound like a load of W@nk3rs, I mean seriously saying one car is better full stop, but you would rather be seen in the other shows just how shallow and insignificant some peoples opinions are.

Sadly though that IS what mattters, because Holden are selling more, and thus Ford are fighting a losing battle, if you are selling a substantially better car, and are still being beaten in the sales race, then nothing you can do will change that. If people are stupid enough to constantly buy the inferior car because, as you say, "I would rather be seen in a Holden" than their is nothing much Ford can do.

fg came out alot later than ve and theres nuffin you can do????? how much longer did they want 10 years lmao

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

No offence intended mate, but to me those guys sound like a load of W@nk3rs, I mean seriously saying one car is better full stop, but you would rather be seen in the other shows just how shallow and insignificant some peoples opinions are.

Sadly though that IS what mattters, because Holden are selling more, and thus Ford are fighting a losing battle, if you are selling a substantially better car, and are still being beaten in the sales race, then nothing you can do will change that. If people are stupid enough to constantly buy the inferior car because, as you say, "I would rather be seen in a Holden" than their is nothing much Ford can do.

You've just described 50% of Holden buyers....
There's no logical reason to buy a VE over the FG for any other reason than personal brand loyalty.
And no amount of discounting or marketing will change that.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by tex

Things are crook in Broadmeadows.

I feel good that 4 months ago I supported them with my coin - although I would have rathered spend it (for their sakes) on the FG. But it doesn't do it for me.

And looking at those figures, it(FG) doesn't do it for a lot of other people. I mean, Pox o doors selling like they are, buyer reaction can't be ALL dictated by fuel costs - can it? Pox o doors are still moving.

I think that what it comes down too. Many people i have spoken to don't like the look of the new falcon .So they would no buy it (either would I)

when i used to go out to pick up a lady I never went looking for a ugly girl that r**ts well . You got for the hot one and say look what im r**ting.
The fg falcon (imo) is a uglycar thet drives well .
The Ve is not great but is better looking (imo).

[unclesam]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You've just described 50% of Holden buyers....
There's no logical reason to buy a VE over the FG for any other reason than personal brand loyalty.
And no amount of discounting or marketing will change that.

so there are no ford brand loyalty buyers? : obviously not

lol at ya post snappy

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You've just described 50% of Holden buyers....
There's no logical reason to buy a VE over the FG for any other reason than personal brand loyalty.
And no amount of discounting or marketing will change that.

Surely there aren’t that many stupid repeat offenders in this country. What’s wrong with our penal system?


Obviously Ford wasted their time engineering 5 star safety into the Falcon.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You've just described 50% of Holden buyers....
There's no logical reason to buy a VE over the FG for any other reason than personal brand loyalty.
And no amount of discounting or marketing will change that.

Yup, brand loyalty is huge. Look at Harley Davidson. I know some blokes that dont want a motorcycle they want a Harley. Same thing, blokes that want a Commodore want a Commodore, full stop.
Actually now I think about it, most blokes I know that have a Harley also have a Commodore.

[GK]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Yup, brand loyalty is huge. Look at Harley Davidson. I know some blokes that dont want a motorcycle they want a Harley. Same thing, blokes that want a Commodore want a Commodore, full stop.
Actually now I think about it, most blokes I know that have a Harley also have a Commodore.

Shows just how silly they are on both counts! LOL!

Now back to the serious discussion.

Ford marketing have to spend up big to get sales moving. The car is awesome, they've just got to get people to test drive them.

I suspect that after another interest rate drop or two, people will move back to larger cars.

I certainly hope so, and I certainly hope that people start buying the FG, or Ford will be in serious, serious trouble.

GK

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

That number also includes Wagons (BFIII). Maybe 600 odd of those ?

Obviously not many of them would be the wagons. Yes, Maybe 600 at the most.

[HUNTER8]

The other thing to consider with the FG is that is also up against the Mondeo. It always has been a good quality car but never a big seller here in Oz. Ford haven't had a good mid size car for years so that has to be taking away sales from the Falcon.

[Windsor220]

One good thing is the FG ute is killing VE ute.

Ford need to go all out on advertising for the FG. Dont let it die a slow death.

[The G6ET Spot]

One of the managers at work has always been a holden person but wanted to buy a XR6T but his wife and daughter talked him out of it as they said that Holden is Australian and they wouldn't even get into a Ford. :

This is the mentality that the Ford has too overcome.

But the way that Ford market their cars it just won't happen. There is no denying the fact that Holden do a better job by a long shot at marketing their cars.

Point being is, how many time have you seen an ad from Ford to promote tha fact that they have a 5 star safety rating. They should have been flogging it to death. But not Ford.

Ford Marketing department would have to be the biggest joke in the industry,the other manufacturers have nothing to worry about while those bozo's are still there.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by unclesam

so there are no ford brand loyalty buyers? : obviously not

lol at ya post snappy

Holden have more Brand loyal buyers than Ford Einstein.. its a simple fact.
How else do you explain the sales results of an inferior product over the FG...?? :
Its been that way for 15 years thanks to Mr P Brock.
Ive said it before and i'll say it again to all you "marketing hype" experts, the money Ford spend on BRAND image today wont start selling cars for atleast 5-10 years... Ford could spend a billion dollars over the next 12 months on marketing and i bet there would be hardly a blip in sales short term...It takes decades to swing back deeply ingrained brand loyalty. In fact id say you'd have to create a whole new generation of "believers" as opposed to shifting spending preference.
Ford need to appeal to the swinging consumer.. unfortunatly the Falcon exists in a shrinking market with increasing options....

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by djst

I think a big reason for the difference between the Commodore and Falcon is simply looks.
People like to show off their shiny new toy,as vein as it sounds.
The Commodore has more street presence than the new Falcon.
I have been driving the new Fg at work and it is a great car,but most guys at work think its cooler to be in the Holden,some even admitting the fg is the better car,but they would rather be seen in the Commodore,as they say it looks tuff and its a Holden.

I can't agree. The VE looks like the hunchback, compared to the svelt beauty of the FG. Looks isn't the reason, it's the boganicity of wanting to be in a Holden that's making your mates wet themselves.

'Tuff'? Hardly.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by unclesam

so there are no ford brand loyalty buyers? : obviously not

lol at ya post snappy

Of course there are, clearly there are more Holden loyalty buyers.

[XR Martin]

Im not sure why the hate on Commodores, we should really be hating on the Toyotas...
With companies like Toyota car enthusiasts will no longer exist and we'll all be driving fridges.
Calais and SSs are pretty good and I would be happy to own one, but there is not one Toyota, letalone Aurion that I would folk out my hard earned for.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Im not sure why the hate on Commodores, we should really be hating on the Toyotas...
With companies like Toyota car enthusiasts will no longer exist and we'll all be driving fridges.
Calais and SSs are pretty good and I would be happy to own one, but there is not one Toyota, letalone Aurion that I would folk out my hard earned for.

Yeah i agree mate.....i've been known at times to call Toyota the 'evil empire'. They truly are the 'dark sith' in my book (to push the star wars metaphor further)...not because they make 'non enthusiast' cars really, just totally boring and in most cases, not very appropriate cars either. In virtualy any segment there is a car that does the job better for less.....but that is for another thread.

I think Holden as a company (and its owners) are just misguided, Toyota, is malicious. Big difference in my book.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Holden have more Brand loyal buyers than Ford Einstein.. its a simple fact.
How else do you explain the sales results of an inferior product over the FG...?? :
Its been that way for 15 years thanks to Mr P Brock.
Ive said it before and i'll say it again to all you "marketing hype" experts, the money Ford spend on BRAND image today wont start selling cars for atleast 5-10 years... Ford could spend a billion dollars over the next 12 months on marketing and i bet there would be hardly a blip in sales short term...It takes decades to swing back deeply ingrained brand loyalty. In fact id say you'd have to create a whole new generation of "believers" as opposed to shifting spending preference.
Ford need to appeal to the swinging consumer.. unfortunatly the Falcon exists in a shrinking market with increasing options....

Fully agree with this....in the long term Ford stands to gain heaps from building 'brand' awareness and support. The cars are there, if they get better dealers (and all brands have this problem) and improve the brand they are in a good position. If holden keeps selling for peanuts alot of frankly substandard cars (particularly the korean imports) it will hurt them. Holden won't mean great australian cars, it will mean second rate imports. In a world of first class imports, that aint gonna fly methinks.....

[azaxr8]

holdens go better. the new ford looks sooo much better then the holden. except maybe the gts:P now thats one sexy car!!

[SSbaby]

I was assured by someone staking his credibility here that Holden's sales figures would take a fall for the month of August... I'm glad I didn't believe him. :

Toyota's sales took an unexpectedly big nose-dive. I wonder what the reason for that was?

At least FG outsold the Camry/Aurion combined... but sales figures so far as still not as good as I had hoped.

The high fuel prices have distorted the market, and the large car segment is again the big loser in August. I wonder when the rebound will actually start?

[Need_a_V8]

Now imagine the sales if the VE was the better car instead. So the VE had better fuel economy, more power, better transmissions, better safety, was newer, had the better interior etc..

Considering the age of the VE now, to be outselling a new falcon that is a better a car by 2,000 units a month is just insane.

[csv8]

I just bought a Fiesta Zetec..still have the BF MK 2 GHIA. FORD need a newmarketting program ASAP !!!!!

[ST]

Originally Posted by djst

I think a big reason for the difference between the Commodore and Falcon is simply looks.
People like to show off their shiny new toy,as vein as it sounds.
The Commodore has more street presence than the new Falcon.
I have been driving the new Fg at work and it is a great car,but most guys at work think its cooler to be in the Holden,some even admitting the fg is the better car,but they would rather be seen in the Commodore,as they say it looks tuff and its a Holden.

The VE has as much street presence as a VZ now, I don't know anybody who turns their head for a VE anymore. It's been out for more than long enough that it just blends in with the rest now.

People just seem to listen to holden spewing out their advertising. Sad for Ford and sad for commodore customers who could be purchasing a far superior vehicle for the same coin.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Yup, brand loyalty is huge. Look at Harley Davidson. I know some blokes that dont want a motorcycle they want a Harley. Same thing, blokes that want a Commodore want a Commodore, full stop.
Actually now I think about it, most blokes I know that have a Harley also have a Commodore.

All my mates who go for Holden ONLY buy Sony Playstations and only drink Bundy Rum.

I buy Xbox and drink Jimmy.

The reasoning behind Holden lovers is that Holdens are cop cars and Fords are taxis.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by sleekism

The reasoning behind Holden lovers is that Holdens are cop cars and Fords are taxis.

Not really, in most states Falcons are just as much used as cop cars as Commodores are. The reason behind Holden's high numbers and lovers and Ford's low numbers are probally because of people being brainwashed in their teenage years telling each other crap like, "Holden is 100% pure Aussie and Ford's are all American imports", "Ford is gay/Ford is ****/Ford sux and Holdens rock" & "Found On Rubbish Dump/Fixed Or Repared Daily e.t.c."

[whales]

In the end Ford still built and sold 5004 vehicles and GMH built and sold 5938.
You have to remember Territory sales are taking sales of the Falcon. Yes I know Holden are still outselling Ford but as others have said in this forum, brand loyalty is harder to overcome than building a better car than the opposition.

Ford could do better.... but they are doing alright if you add their sales together IMO

My 2cents worth

[Jab]

Week ago I had my wife's LT Focus in the car park at work and was showing another member here over it. We had the bonnet up and were chattimg about the car when a gent walked over to us and asked "What make of car is this, it looks very nice!". I was standing in front of the Ford logo on the front. He made some very nice comments about the car both on the internal fit and the engine bay.

I stood aside and the look on his face as he saw the Ford logo was jaw dropping.... He couldn't believe it was a Ford.

So although there are Focus commercials on TV & in the print media the fact that he had NO idea what it was just blew both myself & the other member away.

What can Ford do ! I also agree with other comments above re "Only drive a Holden, even though I like the look of the new Ford" (As was told to me recently by a Holden driver.

Jim.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by whales

In the end Ford still built and sold 5004 vehicles and GMH built and sold 5938.

GMH built and sold a lot more than that - we have to remember that Holden has the luxury of the middle eastern markets and the like.

Unfortunately for Ford, appart from the 300 or so cars that head to NZ and Fiji, what you see is their actual production.

[whales]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

GMH built and sold a lot more than that - we have to remember that Holden has the luxury of the middle eastern markets and the like.

Unfortunately for Ford, appart from the 300 or so cars that head to NZ and Fiji, what you see is their actual production.

Granted, but I was only commenting on what they sold in Aussie compared to what Ford sold in Aussie

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Laser '81

Not really, in most states Falcons are just as much used as cop cars as Commodores are. The reason behind Holden's high numbers and lovers and Ford's low numbers are probally because of people being brainwashed in their teenage years telling each other crap like, "Holden is 100% pure Aussie and Ford's are all American imports", "Ford is gay/Ford is ****/Ford sux and Holdens rock" & "Found On Rubbish Dump/Fixed Or Repared Daily e.t.c."

Yeah in my experience a lot of Holden lovers are sheep and become scared and confused when they are beat by a Ford or in rare occasions outnumbered by Ford lovers.

When I beat a mate in his supercharged Commodore I was told by a passenger in his car that he was angrily repeating to himself that Holdens are police cars and race cars and Fords are taxis.

I was at a party and amazingly there were 8 Falcons and 2 Commodores. The two Commodore owners were like rabbits caught in headlights and seemed scared and confused that "Holdens kick Fords" weren' the majority consensus