FWD commodore?

[XRtowcar]

The speculation is building.
"Unconfirmed reports out of the US this week suggest that Holden is set to move to a front-wheel-drive platform for its next-generation Commodore, with the locally-developed Zeta platform to be dumped in favour of GM’s Epsilon II platform."

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/508...on-ii-platform

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by XR6Uteman

Yes it was they where made for export to NZ.

sure your not thinking of the camira? even us kiwis hated that pos...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

The speculation is building.
"Unconfirmed reports out of the US this week suggest that Holden is set to move to a front-wheel-drive platform for its next-generation Commodore, with the locally-developed Zeta platform to be dumped in favour of GM’s Epsilon II platform."

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/508...on-ii-platform

That article is from September 2010. And still no confirmation..

[Brazen]

Who knows what will happen eventually, but I dont see the point of going Front-wheel-drive, you will then be competing against every Tom Dick and Harry with FWD family cars. Plus they would lose a lot of their premium and V8 sales..

From the sounds of it, it will remain RWD for at least another decade



http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...e-future-23166

10 January 2011

A decision on the Holden Commodore for the next decade must be made in the next six months. That's the deadline Holden has been given to lay out its road map for the future.

The boss of Holden Mike Devereux told Australian journalists in Detroit overnight that General Motors executives in North America want to know if Australians will still have an appetite for large, rear-drive sedans in 10 years' time -- and he's betting they will, despite the odds.

The Commodore has been Australia's favourite car for 15 years in a row, but sales of large six-cylinder sedans have been in decline for most of that time. They dipped again last year -- by four per cent -- in a market that grew by 10.5 per cent.

Although the Commodore posted a modest increase in 2010, sales are running at half the rate they were in the late 1990s. Last year, the Ford Falcon posted its lowest sales in the 50-year history of the nameplate, also falling below the 30,000 mark for the first time.

While the speculation over the future of the Ford Falcon continues -- whether it will be made locally, imported or replaced by the front-drive Ford Taurus -- Holden says it is poised to not mess with the Commodore formula.

"We will know in the next six months what the future of the Commodore -- the next generation -- will look like," said Devereux, who admitted for the first time that front-drive was on the consideration list, but quickly ruled out.

"We looked at everything, that's what all car makers do, that's the prudent thing to do," he said. "But we are under no obligation to go that way, Holden can choose its own path."

He said in his seven months in the top job in Australia, he quickly grasped that Australia is a unique market.

"The rear-drive sedan may not be flavour of the month in other countries, but it is still very much alive in Australia," he said. "If we can deliver the right [size] and the right economy, we can continue on the path we're on."

He said the deadline was set seven years out because that's how much lead time is needed to reconfigure the Holden factory in Adelaide and design new tooling if there were to be a radical change to the Commodore's layout.

"If we go with a complete new architecture (the core structure of a car) then we need to plan well ahead of time," he said. "If we decide to continue with what we have, that's fine, but we need to be sure that's the right decision because we can't go back in time and change it."

Devereux admitted that Holden had evaluated a new General Motors front-drive platform that currently underpins Toyota Camry competitors in Europe and North America -- as well as one that underpins the Chevrolet Impala -- but they have all-but been ruled out.

"It was an option, and still is an option if we really wanted it, but frankly that would not be a Commodore, it would not have Commodore DNA," he said.

A switch to front-drive would automatically wipe a quarter of the Commodore's sales tally -- that's roughly how many V8 rear drive luxury or sports sedans make up its overall volume.

Another argument against a switch to front-drive: the Toyota Aurion V6 front-drive sedan has failed to get near Commodore or Falcon sales despite Toyota's marketing power and the fact that the Aurion has a more refined and efficient engine, and accelerates more quickly.

One rear-drive option under consideration was to downsize the Commodore by using a platform that is going to underpin a new Cadillac small sedan -- but this would be more costly to build and the car would be less space efficient than many medium-sized four-cylinder sedans.

The Carsales Network understands the most likely scenario is that, beyond 2017 -- when the next generation Commodore is due -- Holden will continue with a modified version of its existing Commodore architecture, but will develop an all-new body and engines.

This happens to be the easiest and cheapest of all the options under consideration.

But that doesn't mean Holden will have an easy run. The company says its factory must produce at least 105,000 vehicles per year to remain viable. Last year the Adelaide plant built fewer than 60,000 vehicles. Toyota built in excess of 120,000 vehicles (most of which were exported) while Ford built fewer than 45,000 vehicles in 2010.

"You have to do more than 105,000 or 106,000 cars a year to make the thing go," Devereux said candidly of Holden's factory in Adelaide.

The number of cars Holden makes locally is likely to grow when the Cruze sedan small car comes online in February, joined by the Cruze hatch in November.

Holden also has export ambitions for the Caprice as a police car for North America. The company has begun taking orders but is yet to reveal how many have been sold.

"Exports should not be crucial to our business, but we'd be stupid not to look at every opportunity," he said. "Just because we don't have to export cars [to remain viable] doesn't mean we don't want to."

[bobthebilda]

But that doesn't mean Holden will have an easy run. The company says its factory must produce at least 105,000 vehicles per year to remain viable. Last year the Adelaide plant built fewer than 60,000 vehicles. Toyota built in excess of 120,000 vehicles (most of which were exported) while Ford built fewer than 45,000 vehicles in 2010.

"You have to do more than 105,000 or 106,000 cars a year to make the thing go," Devereux said candidly of Holden's factory in Adelaide.

The number of cars Holden makes locally is likely to grow when the Cruze sedan small car comes online in February, joined by the Cruze hatch in November.

Holden also has export ambitions for the Caprice as a police car for North America. The company has begun taking orders but is yet to reveal how many have been sold.

"Exports should not be crucial to our business, but we'd be stupid not to look at every opportunity," he said. "Just because we don't have to export cars [to remain viable] doesn't mean we don't want to."

So if the author is quoting Deveraux, then a viable plant at 105,000 would pretty much guarantee that both Campbellfield and Elizabeth are not viable at the moment. But then even stranger when he says they dont have to look at exports to be viable.

With a 75% import ratio on the cruze parts, you would have to wonder how these would make the plant any more viable. But then again, they werent making money when they were making 200,000 cars a year.

If he's not trying to deceive, you gotta hand it to him for his optimism, by saying he has faith in the future of the commodre despite a near 15 year trend in declining sales for large cars.

[jpd80]

Looks like some reporters are mistaking the substitution of FWD Malibu for Epica
and assuming the worst. The question is whether Malibu will sell worth a darn either.

[aussie muscle]

i'm sure it makes a lot more sense for Falcon to go FWD before commodore, since commodore has a lot more sales at risk, where ford has less to loose. both makes will take a hit when they first make this change.

[stang65]

so why would that make sense?

[bigsta]

declining sales WTF umm no although the whole market has gone down since the GFC globally the number one car in Australia is still the commodore with the cruze coming in around 4th and falcon is around 5th

While they may introduce a cheaper FWD car the commodore will stay RWD and the current platform is the GM global RWD platform that many models are built on.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by bigsta

declining sales WTF umm no although the whole market has gone down since the GFC globally the number one car in Australia is still the commodore with the cruze coming in around 4th and falcon is around 5th

While they may introduce a cheaper FWD car the commodore will stay RWD and the current platform is the GM global RWD platform that many models are built on.

Commodore market share is constantly declining, same for the falcon. Another year or two and the commodore will probably be over taken by the Corrolla. The difference being that the corrola is manufactured by the hundred thousand rather then the tens of thousand per year.

[2011G6E]

Front wheel drive VH for "export"? No they weren't...all Commodore Fours were rear wheel drive with 13" wheels, using the smaller Torana five bolt pattern. I owned a 1980 VC Commodore Four SL. Very comfy car, but not the fastest with that Starfire Four in it. Driveline was pretty much similar to a "normal" Commodore. Mine had the old Traumatic three speed auto and a 3.9 diff ratio.

Now if it had something like a turbo SR20 in it...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Commodore market share is constantly declining, same for the falcon. Another year or two and the commodore will probably be over taken by the Corrolla. The difference being that the corrola is manufactured by the hundred thousand rather then the tens of thousand per year.

I dont think we will have to wait another year or two. I reckon in 6 months or so (altho wont be confirmed for another 10 months), we will know that the commodore will be knocked off top spot this year by the Corolla (1400 ahead of commodore in one month) and maybe even the mazda 3 (currently 1000 in front of commodore).

The corolla cheap financing was due to end at the end of january, but is still continuing, so i reckon in a few days time, it will have opened up an even better lead than the 1400 it has now.

If you compare jan 2010 to feb 2010 sales, you will see the commodore had a 20% jump in sales (jan - feb), whereas the corolla had a 10% jump, and mazda 3 only had a 5% jump. So commodore may have big jump (if people think fleets/ business) come back into market in feb, but this year, its going to have to have a 50% jump in sales just to not lose any ground on the corolla (providing the corolla doesnt lose any sales).

I would expect to see the $32990 drive away SV6 come mid year sales.

[Chilliman]

The Cruze is the FWD Commodore.....or effectively will be once it topples Commodore on the sales charts.

[2011G6E]

Both Ford and Holden are paying the price of, basically, pretending Australia has nothing to do with the rest of the world.

Other countries (even, amazingly, the USA) are developing large comfortable family cars with more and more fuel efficient engines, and in most countries, that means superb 4 cylinder and V6 turbo diesels that, in a lot of cases, out-perform the petrol variants.
In Australia, we still have the "stigma" that diesel is for lumbering 4x4's and trucks. Very slowly we are seeing people realise that diesels can be amazingly fuel efficient and perfectly acceptable engine for a family car, far from the old knocking rattling engines of decades past.

While other countries have been doing this, Australian manufacturers have been pouring tens to hundreds of millions of dollars into developing new V8 engines. Why? The rest of the world must be shaking thier head and laughing at us.

Put a crate engine from America in the Falcon and Commodore if they must, but put the local development dollars into things that matter.