Have Useless "Safety" Features gone too far? - Page 2

PooDog · 12-02-2017, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lra

None of my cars have any of these ‘safety’ features.
They have have ABS, ESP and Traction Control, all of which are related.
One has a driver reminder that goes off after 2 hours of driving. The first time I experienced it, I spent nearly 5 minutes trying to work out what the alarm was, distracting me from the primary task of pointing it in the right direction.
I am more interested in whether my car’s structural crashability is up to the task when things go bad.
All the other gizmos, to me, are an unnecessary electronic addition that will go wrong as the car ages, and are an incentive the ‘dumb down’ the ability to operate a machine.
If a driver is drunk, stoned, on a self destructive mission, or just plain stupid, these features a not going to save them or others.

Technology is a great thing ....but I think that anything that encourages inattention ,or disconnection to the control of the vehicle you are operating is going to encourage complacency

A lot of the gadgets in vehicles are like a former of entrapment .....they're so boring to drive that you can't help but muck around with stuff and a lot of it you have to constantly have to go into menus and different screens just to change something in the radio settings ?

There's so many people that don't understand anything basic about the vehicle they drive can't drive a manual , can't park , no idea how to overtake

I've been a truck driver for thirty years ....I used to really enjoy a truck with a road Ranger box in it (non synchro ) because it took a bit of skill to get it right and you were connected to the vehicle coz you knew which gear you should be in at what revs for thar corner ....but now in my auto Volvo (beautiful truck ) you just put it in D for Dick head and brain in N for neutral

It's getting crazier on the road and it's only gonna get worse ...because the next generation will need even less ability to drive

Rant over

my apologies

**Rallye Sport** · 12-02-2017, 04:49 PM

I generally shun electronic aids but after a driver trying to change lanes on my Tickford a couple of weeks ago and being corrected by his car my attitude has changed a little.
I'm seeing it creep into heavy machinery, mainly power cut offs to stop numpty's driving a machine past its capabilitys and onto oblivion.
One thing I would like to see is a gadget that senses when a vehicle is in the right lane and pulls it over to let everyone else by, think suv's and large utes... That'd be a real world device

Mercury Bullet · 12-02-2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzman

Technology is a great thing ....but I think that anything that encourages inattention ,or disconnection to the control of the vehicle you are operating is going to encourage complacency

A lot of the gadgets in vehicles are like a former of entrapment .....they're so boring to drive that you can't help but muck around with stuff and a lot of it you have to constantly have to go into menus and different screens just to change something in the radio settings ?

There's so many people that don't understand anything basic about the vehicle they drive can't drive a manual , can't park , no idea how to overtake

I've been a truck driver for thirty years ....I used to really enjoy a truck with a road Ranger box in it (non synchro ) because it took a bit of skill to get it right and you were connected to the vehicle coz you knew which gear you should be in at what revs for thar corner ....but now in my auto Volvo (beautiful truck ) you just put it in D for Dick head and brain in N for neutral

It's getting crazier on the road and it's only gonna get worse ...because the next generation will need even less ability to drive

Rant over

my apologies

I know one or two drivers who have been forced into these automated manuals for long distance work and they think they are death traps. For the same reason you mention.

Probably a god send for those doing city work though.

lra · 12-02-2017, 05:28 PM

Many of the comments here remind me of all the similar negativity towards seat belts when they were being mandatorily introduced.
I bought my first car in 1965, and the first thing I did to it was put in seatbelts.

Really you shouldn't need to worry, if you are such a good driver then many of the avoidance systems should never need to click in.
Been driving for 53 years, including heavy vehicles for 18 years. Had one low speed accident accident. I think I do OK.

Not knowing what an alarm was shows you didn't bother to take the time to familiarise yourself with your car before you drove it and if it was distracting you from driving for 5 minutes then you should have pulled over.
Agree, but I had just bought the car and had 900Km to get it home that day. 2 hours on a freeway is a doddle.

PooDog · 12-02-2017, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I know one or two drivers who have been forced into these automated manuals for long distance work and they think they are death traps. For the same reason you mention.

Probably a god send for those doing city work though.

Yep they're awesome for around town ., we do a lot of farm fuel deliveries and theyre excellent but there's still the ability to do stuff you shouldn't be doing which takes your attention from what you should be ....it's just human nature ....like the ability to have phone locks in cars .... the techs there ...they just don't wanna use it ???

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 12-02-2017, 05:51 PM

How about we replace the steering wheel mounted air bag with a large metal spike aimed directly at the chest of the driver. Remove seatbelts and all other driving aids. That will surely make any driver attentive to what they and others around them are doing.

Will definitely bring down the road toll, too!

lra · 12-02-2017, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

How about we replace the steering wheel mounted air bag with a large metal spike aimed directly at the chest of the driver.

That reminds me of 'road safety lectures' we got while I was doing my RAAF rookies.
It opened with an instructor carrying onstage a step ladder and a crowbar. He then invited someone, anyone to climb the step ladder and dive onto the pointy end of the crowbar. "That is where the steering column will go in a crash"
This was followed up by movies of real life crashes with real dead people.
Very thought provoking ....... but of course this would be PC incorrect now.

Ben73 · 12-02-2017, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Lane assist/departure - yes we need it imo and no I don't think these safety features 'actively encourage drivers to be drongos'. Overall I think the vast majority would still drive responsibly with the safety technology in the background monitoring your position on the road.

The technology may have saved my very good friend, he had a head on with a road train in NW WA.
Seconds before the collision the truck driver said my mate looked like he was looking for something in or around the glovebox when he drifted into the trucks lane. He was an excellent driver and was driving a new HSV GTS. He left a wife and 2 young children behind. Absolute tragedy. No one is perfect, the technology might just save you from yourself or from someone else one day.

.

It's sad what happened to you're friend.
But people who have these safety features in their cars need to know they are there to assist in the worst case scenario and not a feature to make driving easier.
The thing is people will always get distracted occasionally no matter how many or how few driving aids they have.
It makes you wonder how many people do rely on these features and let themselves become lazier drivers.
Sure most wont, but some people will. Probably more than you might think.

GTMOND · 12-02-2017, 06:16 PM

Technology is ( Dumbing) us in my opinion. Think about it, you wish to know something, what do you do ,google it, where as you would have to read up on through a couple of books For your required information.
A simple thing like a street directory ,required you to know which direction you were travelling, and you had to read the street names ect. Now you just punch the address in the GPS.
Car safety is the same, I'm all for structural safety, airbags and the like ,but when the car is literally distracting you with all the technology and more or less doesn't require you to be fully alert, as it will brake and warn you when your doing something wrong. To me it's just another sign of humans using less and less of their brains ability.

Ben73 · 12-02-2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Like it or not it is here to stay.
Here is a quick example of when technology works.
The car was doing 110kms an hour when this was recorded and was in autopilot mode.
If the car in front had of (been paying attention) or had the same technology it would not have happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadR7ETT_1k

Dashcam videos on youtube are not the greatest way to see exactly what happened on the road. Judging by the video it seams like any driver who was paying close attention would have noticed that traffic ahead was stopping and the car in front was still going way to fast.
Sure it's cool the car itself realized the situation, but any decent driver should have picked up on it as well if they were paying attention.

dunga · 12-02-2017, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTMOND

Technology is ( Dumbing) us in my opinion. Think about it, you wish to know something, what do you do ,google it, where as you would have to read up on through a couple of books For your required information.
A simple thing like a street directory ,required you to know which direction you were travelling, and you had to read the street names ect. Now you just punch the address in the GPS.
Car safety is the same, I'm all for structural safety, airbags and the like ,but when the car is literally distracting you with all the technology and more or less doesn't require you to be fully alert, as it will brake and warn you when your doing something wrong. To me it's just another sign of humans using less and less of their brains ability.

cant wait for driverless cars the ultimate brain dead device

.:4:. · 12-02-2017, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunga

cant wait for driverless cars the ultimate brain dead device

I get irritated by the change gear light in the ranger. If the car is that smart then it should see the hill coming up. Big ups to technology.

dunga · 12-02-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I get irritated by the change gear light in the ranger. If the car is that smart then it should see the hill coming up. Big ups to technology.

Ha. I'm taking my ranger to the dealers to have the stop sending useless/meaningless text messages while I'm driving chimes fixed or wait did I get them disabled with the useless your door is open with the ignition on or you have left your keys in the ignition and the engine is off you stupid idiot chime.

commodorenutt · 12-02-2017, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

How about we replace the steering wheel mounted air bag with a large metal spike aimed directly at the chest of the driver. Remove seatbelts and all other driving aids. That will surely make any driver attentive to what they and others around them are doing.

Will definitely bring down the road toll, too!

Sounds like my 28 chev. Steering column is 4 feet long & not collapsible.

At least it has 4 wheel brakes - a step up from rear-only on the '27......

.:4:. · 12-02-2017, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Sounds like my 28 chev. Steering column is 4 feet long & not collapsible.

At least it has 4 wheel brakes - a step up from rear-only on the '27......

Brakes are nice. 4 is more then 2. Heart spikes don't fill me with confidence

chrisandsharon · 12-02-2017, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Sure it's cool the car itself realized the situation, but any decent driver should have picked up on it as well if they were paying attention.

You hit the nail on the head, say no more. Forget about 'decent' drivers, decent drivers make mistakes too, and if they do the technology could save that decent driver from slamming into the back of you.

The safety technology advantages far outweigh any disadvantages. I'm also sick of seeing absolute morons on our roads, bring in every bit of technology available - I'll feel a lot better knowing some of these halfwits have a back up whilst I'm travelling on the road with my family.

Junkyard-Dog · 12-02-2017, 08:23 PM

When I'm driving I just focus on driving. I don't drink, eat or do anything else while I'm behind the wheel.

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person that just focuses on driving. Every time I'm in the car with other people, it's like they are testing how much crap they can get away with doing before they get into a crash. It's mind boggling.

I think we need to have all these safety features because people are going to continue to eat, drink, smoke, read and play with gizmos while driving regardless of how many laws are introduced to stop it. Humans just seem to have a habit of pushing the limits no matter what.

chrisandsharon · 12-02-2017, 08:29 PM

All this talk about good driving, 1300 people died on our roads last year.
I'm sure those drivers who caused those accidents would swear blind that they were a great driver prior to them killing themselves and others. Some would have lived and now have to live with the burden of taking another life/lives - ask those drivers their thoughts on safety technology.

Never tempt fate as the saying goes. Murphy's law - tell everyone how safe you are and you'll **** up tomorrow.

.

**Mechan1k** · 12-02-2017, 09:08 PM

You'll find a vast amount of those 1300 were killed due to circumstances outside of their control (like other drivers causing the accident/mechanical failure/etc).

XByoot · 12-02-2017, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

You'll find a vast amount of those 1300 were killed due to circumstances outside of their control (like other drivers causing the accident/mechanical failure/etc).

Definitely ,without running an accident scenario with and without whatever levels of automation or protections we may have available in the future it's pretty hard for anyone to say for certain. Of course it's sad lives are lost,be it on roads,accidents or ill health.
To me saying future vehicle protections may have saved lives lost in the present day is a little like saying I wish I lived in the future because medicine will advance and I may have survived a condiction I have now...it's all pretty hypothetical. It's certainly possible,totally agree,but it's not definite.

chrisandsharon · 12-02-2017, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

You'll find a vast amount of those 1300 were killed due to circumstances outside of their control (like other drivers causing the accident/mechanical failure/etc).

The variables are endless. How many of those would have been saved by the latest safety technology? No doubt safety technology will reduce that number even further moving forward. Mechanical failures as you mention will always play a role unfortunately.

A friend of ours drove her CX9 down from Sydney via the Hume and Kangaroo Valley a few months back. When she was leaving I asked her when was the last time she checked her tyres, 'ahhh never' with a laugh. Her passenger front (it looked low) had 14psi in it. I sorted her tyres and she was on her way. Some cars/SUVs are coming out with tyre pressure monitors - little safety features like that is even a help.

Crazy Dazz · 12-02-2017, 09:56 PM

Their are pros and cons to everything, the question is whether the pros outweigh the cons.

ABS probably does encourage overconfidence, but at the end of the day the driver is still learning to drive a car according to its ability. Modern cars do have much shorter stopping distances, and "modern" drivers have simply adapted to that.

Airbags, and all the new restraint features, better crumple zones, etc, are FANTASTIC. Because even the biggest drongo never says to himself "oh stuff it, I can't be bother braking, I'll just crash and let my airbags do the work."

I'm not some old fart bemoaning new-fangled technology. I am extremely grateful that my kids all drive cars with air-bags, abs, and a host of other modern safety features.

What concerns me is that SOME of these features actually encourage stupid behaviour.
It's all very well to say "oh, more safety is always good," but what actually do they do.
WTF is the purpose of lane-keeping assist? Its only reason for existence is so that you can take your hands off the wheel. How is that EVER a good thing?

The problem I have with the lane-departure warning is that for the one in a thousand chance it might actually save your life, (assuming you actually pay attention to the warning) it actively encourages the most dangerous behaviour which is inattention.

Modern cars can certainly be driven at much higher speeds than their ancestors. Many days I could easily drive down my street at 150kph.
Should I be allowed to do that just because my car makes me feel safe?
And stuff the little kid who goes chasing his puppy.

Lane-departure warning might stop you wandering out of your lane, and allow you plenty of spare time to text, select songs, play with your sat-nav, etc. It won't give you ANY flamin help, when a truck wanders into your lane, or somebody runs a red-light, or the kid chases his puppy, or any one of hundreds of other things that an attentive driver would see.

For the same reason, whilst I think the emergency braking features is probably a good one, I believe the distance-keeping cruise-control is not.

The difference again, is between a feature that may save you (or someone else) in an EMERGENCY situation, and a gimmick that encourages laziness and carelessness.

Crazy Dazz · 12-02-2017, 10:03 PM

And let me put this in context:

Is it now ok for me to drive whilst drunk or high on drugs?
Because my car has all these features to make up for my inebriation?

Would it be ok for Ford to run ads saying "Drunk as skunk, or high on crack, not to worry your Ford will get you home safe"?

Or what about features that allow the driver to watch TV or surf the web whilst driving?

ozrunner · 12-02-2017, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

........ How many of those would have been saved by the latest safety technology?

Well obviously whatever the percentage is of those 1300 that were actually in late model cars with all the current technology, none.

chrisandsharon · 12-02-2017, 10:11 PM

Crazy Dazz - I'd like to think the vast majority of drivers will still drive responsibly and use the technology only as a back up - I would. If they're abusing the technology then more fool them. Mobile phones and their use whilst driving has been brought up. The dangers of using mobile phones whilst driving cannot be disputed but people still use them with the attitude 'it will never happen to me' or 'I won't get caught'. As bad as it sounds, I'd rather a person (low life) who continues to flaunt the law by using a phone whilst driving to be
behind the wheel of a car with all the latest safety technology available.

**Mechan1k** · 12-02-2017, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

The variables are endless. How many of those would have been saved by the latest safety technology? No doubt safety technology will reduce that number even further moving forward. Mechanical failures as you mention will always play a role unfortunately.

A friend of ours drove her CX9 down from Sydney via the Hume and Kangaroo Valley a few months back. When she was leaving I asked her when was the last time she checked her tyres, 'ahhh never' with a laugh. Her passenger front (it looked low) had 14psi in it. I sorted her tyres and she was on her way. Some cars/SUVs are coming out with tyre pressure monitors - little safety features like that is even a help.

This is one of the features I would find handy indeed .... most others I wouldn't though.
Work front of mine bought a new Santa Fe for the family runabout ... and it has this.

I know you can get aftermarket ones ... but an integrated one is a good thing.

chrisandsharon · 12-02-2017, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Well obviously whatever the percentage is of those 1300 that were actually in late model cars with all the current technology, none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

And let me put this in context:

Is it now ok for me to drive whilst drunk or high on drugs?
Because my car has all these features to make up for my inebriation?

Would it be ok for Ford to run ads saying "Drunk as skunk, or high on crack, not to worry your Ford will get you home safe"?

Or what about features that allow the driver to watch TV or surf the web whilst driving?

Time to leave the thread, have a good one gents

.

Express · 12-02-2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Some cars/SUVs are coming out with tyre pressure monitors - little safety features like that is even a help.

Tyre Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS) have been mandatory on all new passenger vehicles and light trucks manufactured in and imported into the US since 2008.

In the UK it’s been mandatory since 2012, Europe in 2014 and South Korea in 2015.

Japan, China and India are in the process of finalising legislation and the projected dates for full implementation are Japan 2017, China 2018 and India 2019.

It has to be a direct system with a sensor in each wheel that can accurately monitor pressure loss and provide a low pressure warning prior to complete deflation and if the TPMS is faulty the vehicles can’t be registered.

It is also legislated to be fitted to motorcycles in some counties.

Of the locally produced cars HSV's have it and I think the new limited edition Commodores do, I think?

.

2011G6E · 13-02-2017, 12:58 AM

Our second car is a 1982 Celica. We've owned it for almost exactly 8 years now and drive it everywhere.
No air bags, no stability control, no lane departure warnings, no lane keeping assist, no ABS (which I wouldn't mind...it's great), no radar adaptive cruise control, no tyre pressure monitors...

How the hell have we survived....?

Of course we make up for it by doing silly old fashioned things like putting complete concentration into driving, always looking for ways to improve our driving skills, taking pride in feeling what the car is doing when when just cruising around, keeping our eyes open, and being aware of our surroundings...

TheInterceptor · 13-02-2017, 01:25 AM

Technology, keeping stupid people alive who contribute stupid moron genes to our ever dumbing do gooder society since the 21st century.

Some people deserve to die. Technology just prevents this from happening so they continue in their ways and teach their kids hopelessness and the dumb will forever conquer.

But unfortunatley there are sad cases where an utter moron takes out an innocent party and walks away with nothing but a scratch.

This does not only apply to driving. Harsh yes and im happy to say this as i will not abide by the rules of this do gooder politically correct world we live in so if you dont like my post, well thats nice i dont really care.
ABS, seatbelts and windscreen wipers. All very good things when experienced first hand. Blind spot mirrors, probably a good idea considering car pillars these days have to be a foot thick to fit air bags along with structure (safer than normal pillars how?)
Lane depart assist? Auto high beam? Thats just got me scratching my head.