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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#31 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,291
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Quote:
our Falcon survives at lower numbers because of increased plant efficiency and reasonably high retail prices Long term sustainability of local manufacturing hinges on Ford making the right decision on products that sell and return sufficient income to justify keeping the doors open and in order to do that we must have a product that is saleable to at least other countries in our region. Last edited by jpd80; 29-01-2011 at 08:08 AM. |
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#32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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I think theres still room to target the UK personally. Currency shifts have turned against them but at the end of the day its still better than tooling up for LHD and sending them to the US to sell at less than fleet price.
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#33 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,568
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[QUOTE=Brazen]Full article..
Called flogging a dead horse Australian buy rwd larger cars for a good reason , it's hot and dry much f the time with affordable fuel and like the pommies we drag stuff behind the car , the last offering in fwd by Ford sank like a stone so if they want to continue selling 3ok a year in the falcon or it's replacement supply whats needed and desired or get outa town No Brainer ? |
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#34 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
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This is one of those topics that never really goes away. It's like the Falcon only needs to exist in Australia. It's the only market where people insist on having it. It would be a niche product everywhere else. I'm in Florida right now, and rented a Charger V6, closest thing you can get to a Falcon here I guess. I thought it would be exciting to get a RWD sedan. It was alright, niceish... It didn't make me want one really badly though, actually I got pretty bored of it. I couldn't fault it, I just didn't really find it that exciting to drive. It wasn't slow by any means, it handled well, rode nicely... it was just a car I got bored of driving. It would make even less sense when I get back to Idaho. Plus most of the Chargers you see on the road are in rental and police fleets. People don't really get excited about them. I don't think I would pick it over the Taurus, though I haven't driven the new Taurus but it looks a lot nicer inside and out. I just don't think the mass market is demanding to have cars like the Falcon outside of Australia. If the Mondeo works well in Europe and the Taurus does well in North America, there's no logical reason for Ford to do much with the Falcon.
I think it was Flappist who suggested that Ford might use RWD on a future Lincoln product. Ford may want to globalize the Lincoln brand as its premium brand. This would make sense to me as Europe only cares about RWD on luxury branded cars, North America is probably very similar that way, though it could be AWD, and people would be just as happy, and there really needs to be a Town Car replacement of some sort. The current model has been around for over a decade and still looks good today, but i think chauffeurs would like a replacement model. It will be interesting to see how it all happens, but I know the end result won't be all bad news. |
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#35 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 187
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Quote:
Hi..... well..the only reason why Broadmeadows and Ford Australia's production is still allive can be explained by all the money the federal gov and Victorian gov is pumping into the facilities. Broadmeadows and Geelong might be productive but last year only about 35000 cars left the premices. A modern car factory needs to produce roughly 100000 cars a year to break even. Everything below that figure needs to be supported or is called Porsche. They charge an arm and a leg for a car...Ford sells everyday cars and the margins are a lot lower. Unfortunately the high aussie dollar, low import tariffs and the fact that more and more cheap asian producers enter the market, are not really helping the case here. The Aussie gov had to deal out a free trade agreement with the US and that is also a heavy burden for FoA. Its a lot easier to import and tinker arround with a new Taurus design instead of engineering something unique for the handful of Aussies that would like to buy a Falcon ( i am one of them by the way ). The biggest strategic fault FoMoCo and FoA have done in the past is the fact, that neither the underpinnings of the Falcon/Territory nor the very nice I6 engine have made it overseas. Or they could have exported the Falcon in a LHD configuration to Europe and place it above the Mondeo. As everybody knows....the Europeans had a RWD Scorpio.....the Falcon could have taken that position. They could have sold it in Brazil / Argentina or even North America. It is hard to admit but GM/Holden did it so much better with the Commodore by giving that model the opportunity to grow outside Australia/New Zealand. I love the Aussie Falcon because it is a decent car with all necessary options you really need (not the ones that a marketing clown claims to be essential). Unfortunately (just look arround in our society)....fewer and fewer people have an own opinion..they swim with the mainstream and undergo brainwashing for a while....they buy Japanese, Korean or in the near future possibly Chinese and find hundreds of arguments why they think it was the better choice... The handful Falcon lovers are simply not enough to justify a local production. They should have put the next gen Falcon, Territory and Mustang on one platform with export possibilities to Europe, North-and South America IMHO I hope there is still hope.... The Moose |
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#36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
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#37 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 187
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Quote:
I think i got confused with all the numbers... Nevertheless, even all the added up numbers are far off the 100000 mark...sadly The Moose |
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#38 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 105
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Aside from pulling numbers out of thin air, what is with the obsession with "..." after nearly every sentence...
When I read that it comes across as being deliberately vague to try and appear witty or sarcastic...or to get some agenda across... See what I mean? In any case Ford Aus does not survive soley because of government money. Yet another common misconception we have thanks to the media. Whether the Falcon is better than the Taurus is largely irrelevant when it comes to local production. |
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#39 | ||
Get EcoBoosted
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NSW: Newcastle, Sydney & Wollongong
Posts: 1,876
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Swedishmoose,
I dare say FoA would send the Falcon on a whirl wind adventure around the world within milliseconds have FoMoCo said they could. It's the opposite that has happened for Holden - it's thanks to Mr Lutz (ex GM big wig) that the Commodore is sold almost worldwide (be it export or Camaro). But I have a little feeling, though, that with the imminent reduction of the use of the Zeta platform (Camaro moving to Alpha II - smaller and lighter RWD) will create some havoc with the Commodore - it might just go FWD/AWD first or have to risk competing with the new Malibu... |
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#40 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 187
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Hi...
I am slowly getting worried. In the first quarter 2011 FoA sold 40 % less of the Falcon compared to 2010. The sales are basically in free fall. If not soon more consumers decide to buy a Falcon or Territory I am pretty sure that we don't even need to ask ourselfes anymore if the Taurus will replace the Falcon and what not. Australia and New Zealand as FoA main market is too small. Now there are even chinese car makers entereing the Australian car market with supercheap (and not very good cars). If FoA had decided a long time ago, that straight 6 and V8 might not be the ultimate future solution and would have introduced a bigger choice of engines (while still keeping the excellent straight six and V8's) including a Diesel for the Falcon and other options, the situation might not have been so dramatic. And FoMoCo should have allowed FoA to sell both models overseas. Germany could have been a marked as there are many Ford consumers who were sad to see their Ford Granada and Ford Scorpio (rear wheel drive) in the 80s and 90s. What about South America, UK, South Africa ? The Commodore is sold in the Middle East as a Chevrolet Caprice and is doing very well. Don't get me wrong...i own two Ford and I am hoping that FoA will survive. Currently i am not believing in it due to the following: - current job cuts reflect the dropping demand for the big Fords - no Diesel option for the Falcon (yes ...a Diesel can compete with a petrol engine....I don't want to go into that argument) - free trade with many asian countries and the US (importing the Taurus to AUS would be cheeper than producing a version here thanks to the strong aussie dollar) - lack of long term strategy development of FoA - FoMoCo's one Ford strategy and the lackl of understanding that it had bombed in the past - see first Ford Mondeo) - There are less and less consumers who are actually appreciating the benefits of a classic sedan or ute....the demand for all sorts of fancy niche cars is hurting FoA and Holden as well. The biggest problem is that Ford wanted to announce the strategy for the next Falcon mid 2011 and I don't think that the current sales figures and job cuts will actually boost a positive outcome. I should probably just get an FG and preserve it as the last real Aussie Ford. And hopefully i am wrong The Moose |
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#41 | ||
Barra Turbo > V8
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,790
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Id buy an SHO Taurus over an FG no worries.
__________________
-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6 -2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line |
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#42 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 235
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#43 | ||||
Straight Eight
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2,049
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Quote:
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__________________
The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon. |
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#44 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,790
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Quote:
How about you go read some review and then post it as your own. The world doesnt revolve around the falcon ![]()
__________________
-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6 -2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line |
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#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 622
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Would I buy a Taurus over the Falcon?
I'd wait until the CD4-based car is out before I make that call!
__________________
Quote: From www.motortrend.com "Torque is the new horsepower" |
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#46 | |||
Straight Eight
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2,049
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Quote:
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__________________
The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon. |
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#47 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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The SHO weights what 250kg more then the xr6 turbo? I think i'd have to take the xr6 turbo.
Edit: 1726kg(Manual) and 1733kg(Automatic) for the xr6 turbo compared to 1,990 for the Taurus SHO. Would be interesting how much an Ecoboost XR6T would compare in weight and performance to the current XR6T though. |
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#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,291
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Taurus is too big, too heavy and even though it gets great fuel economy
it doesn't suit our market one bit. The car is physically much bigger than our Falcon and probably has the presence that US customers expect in a Full sized sedan, it also helps to distinguish the Taurus from the far more popular Fusion which is around 100 mm shorter and 50mm narrower than our Falcon. Falcon is an in-betweener, a car with the interior space of a full size vehicle and the external presence of a large mid sized car. If Falcon didn't have to accommodate the long I-6, significant front overhang could be pruned, bringing the length and weight down even further. Perhaps this is a plan for a Future Falcon, one that shares a lot more under the skin with the American Mustang. Maybe the key is to keep all that interior space but wrap the external dimensions around the package much tighter... |
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#49 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Would probably be quite painful to try park a Taurus in a normal sized Australian carpark i'd assume.
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#50 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Bowenfels NSW
Posts: 687
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#51 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,291
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Quote:
In case you missed it: Quote:
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#52 | ||||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
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__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#53 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,568
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Quote:
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#54 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,940
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We'll never get the Taurus. Fact is they arnt going to start up a RHD production for a few hundred sales a month at best.
We've already got the Falcon replacement, and thats the Mondeo.
__________________
2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,415
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Quote:
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#56 | |||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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#58 | |||
B1 - J & D Services
![]() Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brim, Victoria
Posts: 1,632
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Quote:
__________________
Mr. Brett Johnstone. ![]() 2002 Ford Laser 2000 Ford Falcon Wagon Egas 1999 Subaru Imprezza Sportwagon 1998 Holden Suburban 2500 1995 Land Rover Discovery TDI 1994 XG XR6 Longreach 1983 Holden Rodeo 1975 Datsun 120Y wagon 1970 MG Midget 1967 Rover 2000TC Soon: Model T. |
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#59 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Probably not very accurate, but I was curious about the difference in performance between the Taurus and a Commodore/Falcon.
So i did three laps around the nordschleife in the Taurus SHO. My times were: 1. 9:44.092 2. 9:27.313 3. 9:26.817 I then did started doing laps in the closest thing to an SS commodore I could find. This was the Pontiac G8 GXP with the 309kw LS3. On my first lap my time was 9:25.921 and at the first split checkpoint on the second lap I was already 10 seconds ahead so I didn't bother doing any more laps. My laps in the SHO were much smoother then my lap in the GXP as I didn't have to really worry about modulating the accelerator, whereas with the GXP, too much power in the corners would have spun me. As all laps were done with the same (talentless ![]() Laps were done with Braking Line showing (yeah i'm a wuss), Automatic transmission (my manual shifting in games needs work and I wanted to be consistant) and ABS on. ESC and TC were turned off. Anyway, i've had my fun for the evening, bed time. Hmm, might have to see what I do in the W427 tomorrow possibly... |
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#60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
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No real surprises there. SHO is a good performer but only on an equivalent XR level, whilst the GXP is near enough HSV level there. I remember the Coupe4 used to lap Eastern Creek faster than the VY2 Clubsport which even had 15kw more than the Coupe4, but i think it was probably also a smaller weight differential than that between a Taurus and G8 GXP.
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