10 years since GM announced they would cease making cars in Australia

[Swordie]

I still have my VY Wagon I purchased just over 20 years ago. I still enjoy driving it. Holden built some really good cars.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Swordie

I still have my VY Wagon I purchased just over 20 years ago. I still enjoy driving it. Holden built some really good cars.

Just seen this Swordie - yes we still have Dad's, purchased new. About 125K on it. Beautiful car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Had GM at Port Melbourne contact me at work for parts supply when Holden shut up shop or pulled out of the country.

I wouldn't do what they wanted for slave labour rates so they just said no and made everything that they contacted us about NLA, I guess asking a loaded question and being rejected is enough to satisfy the ACL guidelines

[Hulsty]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Had GM at Port Melbourne contact me at work for parts supply when Holden shut up shop or pulled out of the country.

I wouldn't do what they wanted for slave labour rates so they just said no and made everything that they contacted us about NLA, I guess asking a loaded question and being rejected is enough to satisfy the ACL guidelines

Same for me, advised we had parts in stock we were disposing of incase they wanted them (at normal price), said no, binned. Came back 2 years later looking for them and more, nope!

I feel for all those Holden buyers thinking they would get support, always new they would be left holding the bag.

[Wretched]

Stellantis will be moving into the old Holden Pt Melbourne offices.

Quite well appointed offices at that. All done before GM started siphoning $$ from all their international companies.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Stellantis will be moving into the old Holden Pt Melbourne offices.

Quite well appointed offices at that. All done before GM started siphoning $$ from all their international companies.

It must be a short term lease
Name one Stellantis brand that’s not going backwards in terms of sales volume

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

It must be a short term lease
Name one Stellantis brand that’s not going backwards in terms of sales volume

At least now the four people who bought Jeeps have a place to go to throw rocks at their office windows for when they don't pay out warranty claims

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

At least now the four people who bought Jeeps have a place to go to throw rocks at their office windows for when they don't pay out warranty claims

Been to a Jeep dealer lately? There is one attached to the group we have our Kia from. They cant seem to give the damn things away... I went for a look one day at the new GC and old mate who spoke to me was talking rather large discounts and alot of stock they are sitting on.. Only got themselves to blame. I had a Grand Cherokee Diesel from new (2017) until october 2020, bloody loved it and the V6 Diesel went hard. No issues until I had 1 small warranty issue in the 3rd year and had to fight my ample butt off for them to honour it, I went as far as national management level to get it actioned... Traded the damn thing as soon as we got it back from the dealer... And I was far from the only one in that situation....

Jeep are largely irrelevant and will be gone within a few years...

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

Been to a Jeep dealer lately? There is one attached to the group we have our Kia from. They cant seem to give the damn things away... I went for a look one day at the new GC and old mate who spoke to me was talking rather large discounts and alot of stock they are sitting on.. Only got themselves to blame. I had a Grand Cherokee Diesel from new (2017) until october 2020, bloody loved it and the V6 Diesel went hard. No issues until I had 1 small warranty issue in the 3rd year and had to fight my ample butt off for them to honour it, I went as far as national management level to get it actioned... Traded the damn thing as soon as we got it back from the dealer... And I was far from the only one in that situation....

Jeep are largely irrelevant and will be gone within a few years...

There’s a salesman
In my complex who sells Hyundai s and Jeeps
Slags the Jeeps as ancient technology and engineering
Owns two Hyundais a 19 i30 and a 23 Kona N line
His third car is a dealership car which changes every few days
Today it was a brand sonata n

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

Been to a Jeep dealer lately? There is one attached to the group we have our Kia from. They cant seem to give the damn things away... I went for a look one day at the new GC and old mate who spoke to me was talking rather large discounts and alot of stock they are sitting on.. Only got themselves to blame. I had a Grand Cherokee Diesel from new (2017) until october 2020, bloody loved it and the V6 Diesel went hard. No issues until I had 1 small warranty issue in the 3rd year and had to fight my ample butt off for them to honour it, I went as far as national management level to get it actioned... Traded the damn thing as soon as we got it back from the dealer... And I was far from the only one in that situation....

Jeep are largely irrelevant and will be gone within a few years...

I would go to my local Jeep dealer but it disappeared years ago

I remember when those WK2 Jeep Grand Cherokees came out that looked absolutely mint, they were everywhere, those 'I bought a Jeep' ads all over TV, I've even got the Jeep t-shirts from those pop up Jeep stores.

Haven't seen one of those things on the road in years - still got the t-shirts though, they can't make cars for **** but they made wicked quality t-shirts

Stellantis is like if Captain Planet was summoned by AIDS, Chlamydia, Syphilis, Gonorrhea and HPV instead of earth, fire, wind, water and heart.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

At least now the four people who bought Jeeps have a place to go to throw rocks at their office windows for when they don't pay out warranty claims

Its funny how people complain about Chinese built cars taking over, Jeep makes it easy for them in quality, reliability and price, why would you buy the overpriced US crap.

The parts wait is a joke, the price of parts is a joke, the reliability of the parts is a joke, buy one and I'm sure you wont see the funny side of it though

I cant see the new GM stuff being suited to our market either, the car industry in Australia is what the rest of the world may want, but not what WE need.

[XR Martin]

If they put a hemi the Gladiator I reckon they would sell heaps

[olds]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Hard to believe today is 10 years since this announcement.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...y-2017/5150034

I predicted this would occur when Ford announced in 2012 they were ceasing production in Australia. At that time people were rubbishing my claim saying Ford were only closing because they made shyte cars. Holden on the other hand made "good" cars and were here to stay.

As a 2 decade veteran working at a large, high tech tier 1 supplier to Ford, Holden, Mitsubishi and Toyota, I understood that Ford needed Holden and vice versa to justify the expense of designing and building unique cars for Australia. Once one ended local production the other was likely to follow.

In early 2018 it was clear GM's move to make Holden 100% imported vehicles was not going well. In early 2018 I questioned if the Holden brand would survive. But GM leaving Australia was not something I thought was a real possibility.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11471430

However as I write this I still cannot believe that GM decided that it was all too difficult and exited the Australian market altogether. I am fairly confident in saying that 10 years ago today nobody predicted that the Holden brand would be dead by now.

This demonstrates to me how little the parent companies knew or understood the Australia car market. Holden imploded very quickly once the last VF rolled off the assembly line.

Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.

Toyota and Holden only left because Joe Hockey and his Government stated they would not subsidies the Australian car industry any longer.

As I write this I still don't Know how little people understand politics in Aus.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by olds

Toyota and Holden only left because Joe Hockey and his Government stated they would not subsidies the Australian car industry any longer.

As I write this I still don't Know how little people understand politics in Aus.

No that is not what happened at all. You're obviously a Labor voter.

The government said "you've been half out the door for a decade (more for Ford), either your in or out." They immediately chose out because they weren't interested

As a business they were failing for years. At some point the taxpayer was funding nearly 50% of every Falcodore built. Pretty crap business model.

Also remember this, it was Labor who wilfully and purposefully legislated a removal of all industry protecting tariffs. It was Labor who left our the car industry vulnerable. They were on their own from 2001 onwards.

Then we move onto KRudd... Remember his "Green" car initiative. He invested $500m in the local car industry with the promise that if they built a certain type of car his government would buy them. Well, they didn't buy them at all. And on top of that, the manufactures squandered the money. He gave them a ton of money to save themselves and it did nothing... Seeing a pattern here?

A person with his eyes wide open and unbiased would see that sad point in history being the culmination of decades of issues and failings. Only a person with one eyed biased would see it as you do.

But I suppose I just know nothing about politics...

[Swordie]

Originally Posted by arm79

No that is not what happened at all. You're obviously a Labor voter.

The government said "you've been half out the door for a decade (more for Ford), either your in or out." They immediately chose out because they weren't interested

As a business they were failing for years. At some point the taxpayer was funding nearly 50% of every Falcodore built. Pretty crap business model.

Also remember this, it was Labor who wilfully and purposefully legislated a removal of all industry protecting tariffs. It was Labor who left our the car industry vulnerable. They were on their own from 2001 onwards.

Then we move onto KRudd... Remember his "Green" car initiative. He invested $500m in the local car industry with the promise that if they built a certain type of car his government would buy them. Well, they didn't buy them at all. And on top of that, the manufactures squandered the money. He gave them a ton of money to save themselves and it did nothing... Seeing a pattern here?

A person with his eyes wide open and unbiased would see that sad point in history being the culmination of decades of issues and failings. Only a person with one eyed biased would see it as you do.

But I suppose I just know nothing about politics...

It seemed like Toyota had a good export business at the time. It was very disappointing to see Toyota affected.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Swordie

It seemed like Toyota had a good export business at the time. It was very disappointing to see Toyota affected.

Yes, it was sad to see that. They were really the own manufacturer that could seemingly stand on its own 2 feet... But its demise was due to losing the economies of scale the other manufacturers afforded.

But it also goes to prove the point, and the government points at the time, that Ford and GM had no interest in Australia. They weren't here for the long haul.

Toyota proved it could be done, but Ford and GM had absolutely no interest into morphing themselves into something sustainable. So they just bailed... As they inevitably would have done.

Kind of like the drug or gambling addicted family member. They are your best friend and talking to you while you were enabling them. But take the enabling away and they just dont bother with you anymore.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Swordie

It seemed like Toyota had a good export business at the time. It was very disappointing to see Toyota affected.

Toyota had a cheaper Asian plant waiting in the wings to pick up the contract, so it lost nothing.
If you think about it, another natural conclusion as car sales were dropping away here…

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by arm79

No that is not what happened at all. You're obviously a Labor voter.

The government said "you've been half out the door for a decade (more for Ford), either your in or out." They immediately chose out because they weren't interested

As a business they were failing for years. At some point the taxpayer was funding nearly 50% of every Falcodore built. Pretty crap business model.

Also remember this, it was Labor who wilfully and purposefully legislated a removal of all industry protecting tariffs. It was Labor who left our the car industry vulnerable. They were on their own from 2001 onwards.

Then we move onto KRudd... Remember his "Green" car initiative. He invested $500m in the local car industry with the promise that if they built a certain type of car his government would buy them. Well, they didn't buy them at all. And on top of that, the manufactures squandered the money. He gave them a ton of money to save themselves and it did nothing... Seeing a pattern here?

A person with his eyes wide open and unbiased would see that sad point in history being the culmination of decades of issues and failings. Only a person with one eyed biased would see it as you do.

But I suppose I just know nothing about politics...

You forgot to mention LNP Howards Gas car conversion plan as well. ;)

[arm79]

Originally Posted by ivorya

You forgot to mention LNP Howards Gas car conversion plan as well. ;)

Not sure how that matters here... It was aimed at aftermarket conversions, not manufacturer level.

[MrEL]

Blame the Government.
Blame the unions.
Simple fact is Australians were not buying Australian manufactured cars.
Hyundai etc had a foothold in and for people who a car is a tool for basic transportation , which 95% of car buyers are the cheaper imports were better value for money. Pay cheap , keep it for 5 years ,throw it away and get another.
No company is going to support and build a product there isn't enough market for.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by arm79

No that is not what happened at all. You're obviously a Labor voter.

The government said "you've been half out the door for a decade (more for Ford), either your in or out." They immediately chose out because they weren't interested

As a business they were failing for years. At some point the taxpayer was funding nearly 50% of every Falcodore built. Pretty crap business model.

Also remember this, it was Labor who wilfully and purposefully legislated a removal of all industry protecting tariffs. It was Labor who left our the car industry vulnerable. They were on their own from 2001 onwards.

Then we move onto KRudd... Remember his "Green" car initiative. He invested $500m in the local car industry with the promise that if they built a certain type of car his government would buy them. Well, they didn't buy them at all. And on top of that, the manufactures squandered the money. He gave them a ton of money to save themselves and it did nothing... Seeing a pattern here?

A person with his eyes wide open and unbiased would see that sad point in history being the culmination of decades of issues and failings. Only a person with one eyed biased would see it as you do.

But I suppose I just know nothing about politics...

The incentives to car manufacturers was based on every $3 you put in we give you $1 so not really 50% as you stated. Plus Holden received double the amount Toyota and Ford received in one 10 year period I last saw the figures for.

In Ford's case FG-X only happened as an election was coming up and the Fed/Vic State came to an agreement with Ford Aust/Ford US to grant enough to have the update go to market. And these were Labor governments just to needle you.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

The incentives to car manufacturers was based on every $3 you put in we give you $1 so not really 50% as you stated. Plus Holden received double the amount Toyota and Ford received in one 10 year period I last saw the figures for.

The near 50% figure came from a report I read ling ago that summed all direct and indirect subsidies and incentives. It worked out that for every car built at one point, near 50% of the cost was offset by the taxpayer. And that figure would only grow as production and sales declined.

Unfortunately its nothing I will ever be able to find again.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

In Ford's case FG-X only happened as an election was coming up and the Fed/Vic State came to an agreement with Ford Aust/Ford US to grant enough to have the update go to market. And these were Labor governments just to needle you.

Not a needle, more proof that Ford weren't interested in doing anything unless someone else paid for it.

That aside, what you've written is just another thing that governments do, Labor are masters at it, when blatantly buying votes. Not doing what's best for everyone, just buying favor. But thats for another thread.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by arm79

That aside, what you've written is just another thing that governments do, Labor are masters at it, when blatantly buying votes. Not doing what's best for everyone, just buying favor. But thats for another thread.

Hear hear. Not that it worked, Ford (and Mitsubishi and Nissan for that matter) decided to leave under a Labor government, before Joe Hockey was ever a government minister. Once the first domino fell, it was only a matter of time before the others did.

Edit: I feel like everyone tends to forget what the circumstances were for Nissan's departure. The Clayton factory shut down directly after a certain car plan was introduced to "rationalise" the industry, and remind me again which side of politics implemented said car plan?

Further edit: Of the manufacturers that did stay after the early nineties, they slashed local production heavily. Remember locally built Corolla, Laser etc? Remember the Homebush plant, and the Eagle Farm plant (where my XH was built, the last model made)?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by arm79

The near 50% figure came from a report I read ling ago that summed all direct and indirect subsidies and incentives. It worked out that for every car built at one point, near 50% of the cost was offset by the taxpayer. And that figure would only grow as production and sales declined.

Unfortunately its nothing I will ever be able to find again.



Not a needle, more proof that Ford weren't interested in doing anything unless someone else paid for it.

That aside, what you've written is just another thing that governments do, Labor are masters at it, when blatantly buying votes. Not doing what's best for everyone, just buying favor. But that's for another thread.

Any government subsidy, either directly in cash or indirectly through offset incentives, etc didn't just prop up a car industry, had a pool of local businesses exist in all the supply chains, it also created jobs in those industries that usually required training, skills development and the ability to manufacturer and sell products in other areas apart from cars. And all those employed paid tax and spent their money locally.
It happens to and by many manufacturers around the world, look at MB and BMW in the USA, Boeing, Airbus, etc....
Losing a local industry has also removed a form of price control that importers no longer have to worry about....you couldn't sell an imported SUV from Kia or Hyundai without worrying about Territory and the same for Commodore and sedans. We've lost far more than what the government of any colour spent supporting the car industry.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by olds

Toyota and Holden only left because Joe Hockey and his Government stated they would not subsidies the Australian car industry any longer.

As I write this I still don't Know how little people understand politics in Aus.

Wrong.

Toyota left because Ford and Holden did. They would have continued manufacturing here but the cost was too high. There was no other car maker to buy from the suppliers to keep the cost of the components low. Basically Toyota didn't want to pay a premium to keep local suppliers afloat.

I worked for Toyota from late 2016 until 2020, so heavily involved in the transformation from manufacturing.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by olds

Toyota and Holden only left because Joe Hockey and his Government stated they would not subsidies the Australian car industry any longer.

As I write this I still don't Know how little people understand politics in Aus.

[lra]

There are so many misconceptions around the demise of the industry.
Labor v Liberal, Govt interference in decision making, alternate facts. The big factor was that Ford, Holden and Toyota were not Australian companies.

As a more 'mature' car enthusiast who can remember some of the FUBARs of the time, the rot set in a long time before the inevitable.

Holden's glory days started to fade from the HQ era. Have a look at the history of how to replace the HQ platform. Gawd-awful design proposals came and went, GM procrastination, indecision and bean counting.
Cheap and easy solution, 'import' a Euro design and build Australian version. Didn't really go all that well. Then the VL engine debacle and a $700M bailout from GM put the corpse on life support. How much of the Commodore's sales were propped up by HDT and HRT success at the race track, and that image it projected.
Peter Hanenberger got under GMs skin by being too successful with exports and varied models. That had to change. Holden upstarts, how dare they.

Ford Aus always had to go to cap in hand to US HQ, to get approval for the next model, begging and pleading. How many Ford followers remember the horrible looking Zephyr facelift which was ditched for the Falcon, almost by accident.
Then, when Holden hit a six with the VT series and started expanding the variety, Ford started to wind their range back, using reasoning that there were no sales for such cars.
The capability was there, but not the interest and commitment from management, which was following US instructions.
What happened to the Aus built Focus ?
LHD exports into GMH markets ? A global Territory ? In ya dreams.
Why aren't Rangers being built in Aus ?

Toyota were collateral damage. Exporting more Camrys than were sold domestically. Plans to build the Kluger here. Too late.

[DJM83]

I know this is a Ford forum, but i thought this thread might be a celebration of the red corners cars.
Instead its just political poo throwing depending on what side you sit. What a waste.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I know this is a Ford forum, but i thought this thread might be a celebration of the red corners cars.
Instead its just political poo throwing depending on what side you sit. What a waste.

Lots of us here are hurt by the loss of our local car industry, as Australian new car consumers we have less choice than ever. Our so called family vehicles are heavier and thirstier than ever, and still have drum brakes in the rear when our locally built Falcons stopped doing that in 1986!

That said, I would love a VS S pack V8 manual ute. My dream Holden. Preferably a late one with the VT steering wheel

[lra]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I know this is a Ford forum, but i thought this thread might be a celebration of the red corners cars.
Instead its just political poo throwing depending on what side you sit. What a waste.

OK. Some thoughts to upset forum members.
Fords big days were up to the XC Falcon. Great looking cars with performance and passenger carrying capacity that left Holden for dead. Then something happened. XD lost its sex appeal and became a practical car that was more roomy than a Commodore, which started kicking goals, despite being smaller and with the unkillable, but outdated 6 cyl.

I was at the Sydney Motor Show the day after they pulled the covers of the Commodore Coupe / V2 Monaro. It was like Holden was handing out free ice creams to kids, while Ford had a box of broccoli. That was a turning point for Holden. And the Monaro was put into production on a shoestring budget.

Much talk about a Falcon coupe, and that was it.
Ford had a R5 ute which should have gone into production, when the Holden Crewman did.
The Statesman / Caprice sales grew inversely to the Fairlane sales. Ford seemed relieved to stop production there.
Want a sporty, good looking VE wagon equivalent ? Nothing to see at the Ford showroom. Again, Ford strangled the wagon.
FPV had some great cars, but was a token effort to counter the HSV army.
Adventra v Territory. Well, no contest there. Maybe the Nullabor would have evened out that contest.
Coupe 60 / VE Monaro vs Camaro. Did someone say 'rigged election'.

Ford set the pace in the late '60s, during the '70s, and early '80s but dropped the baton somewhere in the grass, and by the time they found it, Holden were too far ahead to catch.

Just imagine what may have been if the Govt (here we go again) had told Ford and GM to go **** themselves in 2010 or earlier, nationalise the production plants, and built a variety of vehicles to suit the Australian market, with Australian know how and support industries.
Couldn't have cost the taxpayer any more than chucking $$$$ onto a plane to send to the USA, in return for nothing.











.