High Speed Rail..a Scam? - Page 2

mik · 14-04-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Im all for high speed rail. Ever been to Japan?

Yes I know the population is much bugger, etc. But it is amazing. We did the distance of 1600 klms in around 6 hours on three trains. All dead on time and we were on the slow trains at 320 kmh. Way more comfortable than a plane and no luggage and security to stuff around with no $7 airport coffee and you end up in the middle of the city not out in woop woop.

This is a long term plan and by the time it gets built Australia will probably have 40 million people and most of Northern NSW will be developed. Not to mention it frees up the other lines for more rail freight.

it would be a good thing, but don`t expect a cheap fare.

flappist · 14-04-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

it would be a good thing, but don`t expect a cheap fare.

I have been on the 400km/h Shanghai Maglev, it cost $50.....

Franco Cozzo · 14-04-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I have been on the 400km/h Shanghai Maglev, it cost $50.....

What is it like travelling at 400km/h across the ground?

LTDHO · 15-04-2013, 08:46 AM

Stupis but serious question.

It HSR a whole new rail (new tracks, route, etc) or upgrading the current rail?

Why can't trains go faster on the current system?

From what I heard, Melbourne CBD to Sydney CBD will be quicker by rail than plane (after taking into account taxt to airport and checking in)

nuthin' fancy · 15-04-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Stupis but serious question.

It HSR a whole new rail (new tracks, route, etc) or upgrading the current rail?

Why can't trains go faster on the current system?

From what I heard, Melbourne CBD to Sydney CBD will be quicker by rail than plane (after taking into account taxt to airport and checking in)

Completely new.

The only possible business case for it is around removing the need for Sydney's second airport but I won't hold my breath.

Yellow_Festiva · 15-04-2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Stupis but serious question.

It HSR a whole new rail (new tracks, route, etc) or upgrading the current rail?

Why can't trains go faster on the current system?

From what I heard, Melbourne CBD to Sydney CBD will be quicker by rail than plane (after taking into account taxt to airport and checking in)

Totally new rails. Much tighter tolerances for traditional rails but then the Maglev Flappist mentions works by opposing magnetic forces essentially repelling the train, making it float on air. Almost frictionless... Which is how the speeds are attained. Amazing technology.

Maglev = magnetic levitation.

mik · 15-04-2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I have been on the 400km/h Shanghai Maglev, it cost $50.....

I don`t think we would be paying such cheap fares for a long long time.

flappist · 15-04-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What is it like travelling at 400km/h across the ground?

Rather strange, especially watching all cars on the freeway going backwards "really fast".

Another interesting thing was that we slowed to 300 then there were two loud bangs then we continued on.
The bangs were the leading and trailing edges of the one going the other way and the reason it slowed was that if they were both doing 400 the pass would have been supersonic which could have blown both trains off the tracks.

Actually I just went and looked it up, it wasn't $50 it was 50rem which is about $7......

Nikked · 15-04-2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

the reason it slowed was that if they were both doing 400 the pass would have been supersonic which could have blown both trains off the tracks.

I thought the speed at which an object was supersonic was on the other side of 1000km/h...and if to objects are travelling at 400km/h a piece would equal 800km/h...

Unless there is pressure between the two that causes the airspeed to rapidly build up?

Either way, when I was about 9 years old, the X2000 tilt train came to Tamworth...was intended to provide faster train services, but never happened.

flappist · 15-04-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

I thought the speed at which an object was supersonic was on the other side of 1000km/h...and if to objects are travelling at 400km/h a piece would equal 800km/h...

Unless there is pressure between the two that causes the airspeed to rapidly build up?

Either way, when I was about 9 years old, the X2000 tilt train came to Tamworth...was intended to provide faster train services, but never happened.

It is to do with compression waves as the two wakes get squashed between the trains.

bullfrog · 16-04-2013, 12:03 AM

The Albury/ Wodonga to Melbourne train,(ie: Bus, mostly due to track closure/condition issues) after a major track upgrade, can't manage more that an 80Km average. How are they going to do 300Km +.

Martyvan · 16-04-2013, 12:17 AM

how about the government use the hogwarts express.... its ultra fast, elite, runs on normal rails and comes with additional security when required..... everyone would consider it a magic experience!!!!

mik · 16-04-2013, 01:22 PM

Does anyone want to have a guess how much we would be paying for a fare interstate on said fast train if it ever happened? Being a betting bloke i'd bet the powers that be would let some over seas company build it and have the rights to all fares, it would'nt suprise me if it was more than air fare, after all they could advertise it as faster than airlines with low waiting times and minimal security hassles.

**GasoLane** · 17-04-2013, 05:30 PM

The two things that guaranteed to surface during an election campaign are Sydneys 2nd airport and a superfast train.

mik · 18-04-2013, 02:11 AM

Yes and some pretty good story telling as well i'll bet :-)

2011G6E · 18-04-2013, 06:15 AM

Even with our coal trains...whose locomotives are flat fronted square-sided things, hardly streamlined works of art like the maglevs and Japanese high speed trains...when you get two going past each other from opposite directions, each doing between 70 and 80kph, the compression wave can easily be felt between the two...you can feel it move the 120 tonne loco around on its suspension.

I can't imagine what the buffeting would be like between two trains doing 300 or 400 each...air doesn't like being compressed in large quantities, and that's what Flappist was talking about, and combine that with the shock waves bouncing between the two, and you get some real power being generated.

How about this thing...574 kph...jesus christ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA

flappist · 18-04-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

It is to do with compression waves as the two wakes get squashed between the trains.

Here is a youtube clip of the train taken from the inside. It passes one going the other way at 3:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCAz-kw6WN0

xxx000 · 18-04-2013, 09:17 AM

a mate went on that train a few months ago

he showed me a video he took of it slowing and then passing another train, just incredible

the windscreen of his train was cracked due to a birdstrike somewhere

Ringo · 18-04-2013, 09:32 AM

It will never stack up when air travel, and trucking is so relatively cheap.

This is just a political move to take up media space. If you are dominating the media space with your junk, it denies the opposition control of the same media space.

Anyone remember John Howard bringing in Ziggy Switowski to review the use of nuclear power in australia in his final year? was front page news for a long time as everyone was up in arms about it....never went anywhere. Always thought it was interesting that the ex head of Telstra who is a very wealthy man was appointed to run it too. I'm tipping Ziggy didn't do it for money, but I can only speculate as to why he took it on.

flappist · 18-04-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

It will never stack up when air travel, and trucking is so relatively cheap.

Four points:
1)It is for passenger transport only not freight as boxes do not care how long it takes to get anywhere
2) Aviation pricing is unsustainable and does not scale with the price of fuel, carbon scare and constant whinging about airports.
3) Rail does not care about weather in other than extreme cases.
4) A flight from Sydney to Melbourne cannot stop at major ports along the way to pick up or drop off.

**GasoLane** · 19-04-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

How about this thing...574 kph...jesus christ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA

Oh no... at 9.30 is that a Chemtrail ??

Oh sorry wrong thread.... I still think 570k on rails is scary though!

Keepleft · 19-04-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryeman

Has the Melbourne-Sydney freeway been completed yet?
Fraser Govt promised it nearly 40 years ago

Holebrook NSW is the last bit, construction well underway. After completion we'll have combination motorway and lesser divided dual-carriageway between Melb and Syd.

In a few years (2016-2022), the NSW Pacific Highway upgrade, to the same specification outcomes will be complete.

Motorway bits, being federally funded and national routes of importance, could be made 130km/h, dual-carriageway bits 110-120km/h; each via signposting and use of VMS.

See ATSB's CR 216:-
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...l_Speed_2.aspx

ryeman · 19-04-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

It will never stack up when air travel, and trucking is so relatively cheap.

This is just a political move to take up media space. If you are dominating the media space with your junk, it denies the opposition control of the same media space.

Anyone remember John Howard bringing in Ziggy Switowski to review the use of nuclear power in australia in his final year? was front page news for a long time as everyone was up in arms about it....never went anywhere. Always thought it was interesting that the ex head of Telstra who is a very wealthy man was appointed to run it too. I'm tipping Ziggy didn't do it for money, but I can only speculate as to why he took it on.

Ziggy is a qualifies nuclear physicist.

vanman_75 · 19-04-2013, 04:58 PM

After doing Europe last year , man it is awesome .trains stop in middleof every major town .after getting off plane in paris , jumped on thalies ...hour later couple beers , some WiFi , nibble at food cart I'm in Brussels ,every 2 days we moved on ..1200 for 2 for a month's travel first class , reclinerseats , PowerPoints, , meal provided .....awesome .you can book a seat or stand , no set train unless you want a guaranteed seat , get off in every town have a sticky and hour later jump on the next one and continue...its an awesome way to travel no cabs , parking, wait time ,boarding time , delays , security checks , baggage limits ...any trip ranging 100- 1200 km you can not get there a quicker way ...if we had it here for me - rocky - Brisbane 2 hrs , if driving its 7 , if flying taxi or drive to airport half hr board ,1 hr flight ,15 unboard,15baggage , wait on train or cab to Brisbane half hr , taxi to hotel ....I'm there already waiting for you .

tranquilized · 22-04-2013, 07:46 PM

I've heard the sydney- melbourne flight route is one of the busiest in the world. Surely a business for a fast train between those two cities could be made. Providing the trip takes about 3 hours and fares are comparable to airfares you'd be mad to take a plane!

flappist · 22-04-2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I've heard the sydney- melbourne flight route is one of the busiest in the world. Surely a business for a fast train between those two cities could be made. Providing the trip takes about 3 hours and fares are comparable to airfares you'd be mad to take a plane!

Yes but remember Sydney only has one RPT airport.
Most of the rest of the world have several in their major cities.