Added-value Falcons pay back Commodore in kind (August 2008)

[Falc'man]

nag nag nag whinge whinge whinge

just my 2c

[uranium_death]

The large car segment is slow.
Ford need to entice people to consider their product, especially considering Holden always steal Ford's thunder.

What they're doing is necessary.
You put a piece of poo on four wheels and call it a "Corolla", and people flock towards it.

Make a really nice car in the FG Falcon and people don't go near it.
I see it as Ford trying to 're-build' its reputation in Australia. Get people to nibble at the bait first, and hopefully they'll bite, and stay hooked.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Laser '81

Exactly!
Ford Australia is in no sight of closing local manufacturing any time soon.

In march '08, there was 702 Mitsubishi 380s sold on the last month of the 380's life, yet on the same month there was 2322 Falcons(not including the Utes) sold and a total of 4923 locally built Fords sold (not including the left over Fairlanes).

In July this year there were 5804 Fords from Broadmeadows sold, 3448 Falcons (not including utes), 1328 Falcon utes and 1028 Territorys.
Not that far behind Holden's Locally built vehicles with 6162 sold in July '08.

So Ford oz are clearly in no sign of following Mitsubishi oz's fortune.

$100 bucks there is no local falcon in 5 years. Fords global platform range is being cut from 25 to 9, so unless this car returns some big profits its gone! Ford globally are in a very serious position that will require some big decisions, the local Focus is a good move that will secure the future of the Broady plant but I feel for the Geelong workers as I think they will be getting smaller. It would be nice to think our local rear drive platform would be used world wide because its a real good car but its a tough world with lots of good competition.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Laser '81

Exactly!
Ford Australia is in no sight of closing local manufacturing any time soon.

In march '08, there was 702 Mitsubishi 380s sold on the last month of the 380's life, yet on the same month there was 2322 Falcons(not including the Utes) sold and a total of 4923 locally built Fords sold (not including the left over Fairlanes).

In July this year there were 5804 Fords from Broadmeadows sold, 3448 Falcons (not including utes), 1328 Falcon utes and 1028 Territorys.
Not that far behind Holden's Locally built vehicles with 6162 sold in July '08.

So Ford oz are clearly in no sign of following Mitsubishi oz's fortune.

Don't get mad. Just look at the bigger picture.

Ford is not in the same boat as Holden and nowhere near Toyota even though Toyota's local sales numbers lag significantly behind Ford's.

Wanna know why? Both Holden and Toyota don't need domestic sales alone to survive. They have significant export numbers which exceed Ford's local production numbers... to keep their manufacturing plants viable.

The sooner Ford start exporting vehicles, the brighter their chances of survival as a local automaker.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Don't get mad. Just look at the bigger picture.

Ford is not in the same boat as Holden and nowhere near Toyota even though Toyota's local sales numbers lag significantly behind Ford's.

Wanna know why? Both Holden and Toyota don't need domestic sales alone to survive. They have significant export numbers which exceed Ford's local production numbers... to keep their manufacturing plants viable.

The sooner Ford start exporting vehicles, the brighter their chances of survival as a local automaker.

Unfortunatly Ford US won't give them GRWD. Ford have proven themselves with designing cars for the world (with the IKON in India and the Ranger/T6 program). Maybe the fall of the aussie dollar may help. Even make it cheaper the assemble the V6 in Oz. I know Ford were looking at it last year but the aussie doller shot up.
Ford did get the money for the LHD conversion of the Falcon but it seems that was dropped as well.

[schnoods]

Originally Posted by mr smith

$100 bucks there is no local falcon in 5 years. Fords global platform range is being cut from 25 to 9, so unless this car returns some big profits its gone! Ford globally are in a very serious position that will require some big decisions, the local Focus is a good move that will secure the future of the Broady plant but I feel for the Geelong workers as I think they will be getting smaller. It would be nice to think our local rear drive platform would be used world wide because its a real good car but its a tough world with lots of good competition.

Out of the supposed 9 global platforms of car that ford apparently will reduce to, Surely one of them will be a long wheelbase family sized sedan, More than likely we would be receiving it over here.

Whats to say they dont call it a falcon? In an age where what was old is new again with renaming new cars with legends of yesteryear, whose to say we wont be buying a falcon? Surely they have built an Name and image to go along with it, only when it stops selling will they stop selling it.

I dont think the Falcon will pull Ford out of the !@#$ but i do think economically it is viable, if they make money off of it, they surely wont stop selling a profit. But given that, I'll wait till the new model comes out, potentially a new platform with new motor and characteristics, as the character is the selling point at this stage.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by schnoods

if they make money off of it, they surely wont stop selling a profit.

Jag was making a profit, they must be making money from the Mazda ownership, yet there is talk of selling that

I believe that Chrysler Au was still making money when it was sold out.

To put it simply I agree with you sentiments - except the quoted bit. US companies will do all sorts of things to support the US business - I wish/hope Ford proves to be a multinational Company, not a US company

[ED Classic]

They just need to keep foccusing on effeciancy and much better after sales service needs to be the first priority which leads to owners strongly reccomending the ownership experience to others and maybe even making their second car or daughters car etc a....Ford!! If Ford are confident of their product (and they should be with most) then getting people into dealers is going to be a great thing.

[xr6turbo2005]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yet southside Ford had 5 or so FPV sedans at the ALL FORD DAY last weekend.

Whats wrong with these guys!

But these all had Vic plates on them. id say loaner cars from Ford as the F6 was at QFord Sprinwood yesterday and the salesman said they had it until early next week.

I see BBF have knocked up to $4k off some FPV's .

They also have a few BF run out models at good prices too if anyone is interested

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by mr smith

$100 bucks there is no local falcon in 5 years. Fords global platform range is being cut from 25 to 9

Thats platform, not specific models, to be picky. Its probaly a move to higher platform shareing, having a number of cars built on a few platforms will lower cost.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by xr6turbo2005

But these all had Vic plates on them. id say loaner cars from Ford as the F6 was at QFord Sprinwood yesterday and the salesman said they had it until early next week.

I see BBF have knocked up to $4k off some FPV's .

They also have a few BF run out models at good prices too if anyone is interested

Not all had Vic reg

[bigfeller]

what about a 6cyl cortina or a decent 4 cyl rear wheel drive vehicle rebirth, im not into all that front wheel drive crud. a well powered rear wheel drive car in the small to medium size car bracket would be good to see, as toyota certainly doesnt get it, : i love my xr6 but for a second vehicle i dont necessarilly need a family sedan although i have one. all the japaneeese imports out there are reasonably well powered small to medium sized rear or all wheel drive cars, and as you can tell on our roads their is definately a strong market out there for such vehicles to be built and sold, we have the engines and surely the ability to do it, our car manufacturers just need to be less conservative , and or maybe ask / survey the market to see what potential buyers want in a car? ps sorry for turning a question into a thought path statement i just got on a roll. :togo:

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mr smith

$100 bucks there is no local falcon in 5 years. Fords global platform range is being cut from 25 to 9, so unless this car returns some big profits its gone!

Thats the whole idea of the Global RWD platform, to get the Falcon, Mustang and Crown Vic onto the same platform to save development dollars.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Don't get mad. Just look at the bigger picture.

Ford is not in the same boat as Holden and nowhere near Toyota even though Toyota's local sales numbers lag significantly behind Ford's.

Wanna know why? Both Holden and Toyota don't need domestic sales alone to survive. They have significant export numbers which exceed Ford's local production numbers... to keep their manufacturing plants viable.

The sooner Ford start exporting vehicles, the brighter their chances of survival as a local automaker.

Holden and Toyota are both at the mercy of the strong aussie dollar so their profits have been slashed massively, and Toyota build the Camry in 9 plants globally, so if Toyota Japan decide they want to shut down Altona they could do it in a heartbeat and source cars from overseas, which makes them more vulnerable than either Ford or GMH, so its not just Ford that are vulnerable. Also the global RWD platform that Holden designed has had the number of cars to be built off it slashed, which will make paying for the platform a lot harder for Holden.

[xurbanx]

I think it's a great move. Who knows amongst those short term sales, a long term customer may be gained. Ford always seemed conservative to me, in terms of its marketing and cars.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Ford wont die the same fate as mits just yet..

Remember we have Falcon sedan, wagon, ute and Territory to keep us going, roughly 5500 - 6000 sales per month, compared to an average of 1000 for Mits!

Whether Ford can justify any future activity will be where the drama remains.

LSTerritoryGhia is right, the Falcon gene pool (Sedan, Wagon, Ute and SUV) have been outselling the commodore family for years now.

Last months sales stats:

Falcon based vehicles: 5804
Commodore based: 5770

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Everytime Ford improve, add value or bring out a new model, theres always someone whinging that its a slap in the face of current owners, coz it means their car is worth less. Get over it. As soon as you leave the yard, your car is worth less

Since the beginning of time Falcons and Holdens/Commodores have had a higher rate of depreciation than most other brands. This is purely an effect of a huge supply on the second hand (ex fleet car) market, an already discounted purchase price, and a value per $ which far surpases everything else on the market. And guess what, it will be effected by the price of oil.

As Bathurst77 said, people here whinging about their resale need to include this in the cost of the car - getting on the web and whinging about it is not going to make them recover.

[Hally]

As mentioned in a different thread, I need to get a new car. Went to Ford & Honda today to drive the FG (G6) and Accord V6 respectively.

I was impressed with both cars. Some forum members can bang on about the Accord being fwd etc, but I thought it handled, rode and went well. Falcon handled better and was slightly sommther when riving. I was suprised that the Honda was quieter when sitting in the rear.

Pricing? I went very hard with the Ford dealer and the best I could get for a G6 with side airbags and technology pack was $39,800 drive away.

The Accord? $38,500 (including Bluetooth) without too much haggling. Features wise they were line ball.

Like I said to the Ford dealer, if it was just choosing the car it would be the FG. I was honest and told him I was worried about reslae etc. He agreed and conceded that he had a few people love the drive aspect of the car, but didn't trust Falcon resale enough to purchase.

Out of curiousity, does the G6 have anything that an XR6 doesn't?

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Very true, almost put my self in one...until I sat in it and was shoked with the poor interior.

And yet you drive a B series? I drove a VE SSV today and it was beautiful. I thought it was much better finished off than my BA was.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

As Bathurst77 said, people here whinging about their resale need to include this in the cost of the car - getting on the web and whinging about it is not going to make them recover.

I did. I voted with my feet. An FG wasn't even a consideration in my newly purchased car due to the insane resale on my BA.

[MR_SIDO]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I did. I voted with my feet. An FG wasn't even a consideration in my newly purchased car due to the insane resale on my BA.

Ba is not alone there mate. Everything is affected at the moment. I am a dealer and trying to get prices on vehicle's at the moment at a wholesale level is impossible. Interestingly enough it is alot worse in Victoria than other states. We have found that there are alot more interstate dealers heading to Melbourne based auction houses to purchase their stock as it is heaps cheaper at the moment. I hope it turns around soon. 07 VE commodore omega's (ex renters) are going through at auction for 16k with 40 - 60,000 km's.

I know I'd definitely stay away from Falcon/Commodores as new car purchases. The depreciation on them is ridiculous.

It's like they half in value every 3-4 years. I would much rather pay a bit extra for a better car and have it keep its value than go a new Commodore.

I'm coming into a similar problem with sportsbikes. I have found that it's best to buy a near new (current year) model with low kays and take advantage of the money lost by driving out the dealers gates. You still get the warranty if anything goes wrong and the price is right.

Sucks to be people who buy and sell New Falcodores every few years. A Honda or something would probably be a much better buy. Even a ute or Euro.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden and Toyota are both at the mercy of the strong aussie dollar so their profits have been slashed massively, and Toyota build the Camry in 9 plants globally, so if Toyota Japan decide they want to shut down Altona they could do it in a heartbeat and source cars from overseas, which makes them more vulnerable than either Ford or GMH, so its not just Ford that are vulnerable. Also the global RWD platform that Holden designed has had the number of cars to be built off it slashed, which will make paying for the platform a lot harder for Holden.

Yes but they do have the advantage of hedging their business model to partially safeguard against a fluctuating currency. That's one of the many advantages of exporting. The other being utilizing full production capacity, which isn't exactly what's happening at Ford atm.

Off topic but did you see the value of the AUD recently? It's dropped back down to around 85c US... that's around 10% more money in Holden's and Toyota's pockets (assuming contracts were signed in US currency) compared to one or two months ago.

There is no doubt the global economy is working against the local car industry in overall terms.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Shounak

It's like they half in value every 3-4 years. I would much rather pay a bit extra for a better car and have it keep its value than go a new Commodore.

Half?! I would have been extatic if I got half of what I bought it new for. I think I paid around the 48k mark for it, 4 years later Ford told me it was work 10k.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I did. I voted with my feet. An FG wasn't even a consideration in my newly purchased car due to the insane resale on my BA.

Well done, do you want a medal?

Resale is all relative when you look at the big picture.. Theres plenty of high price euros that have similar resale percentages to Fords and Holdens. The key to sucess with buy either as a private buyer is buying the models that have the better resale and not going mad with factory optoins, e.g. XR6 / SV6 sedans with no options and some discount still fair well resale wise. Its when you walk in and pay top dollar then add an extra 7 - 8 kay worth of factory options you get rooted up the , because we all know options mean nothing at trade in time!

Id still buy a Falcon or Commodore before id buy anything else, and it isnt because im a bogan, its because they are a bloody good product (holden less so) for the money!

I've never really understood factory extras.

I mean why pay 3-4 times as much for a genuine Towbar when a Hayman Reese one is just as good and maintains a warranty. Same with things like reverse parking sensors, bluetooth. For much less you can get higher quality aftermarket products fitted that often perfectly integrate with the car, for a lower price.

Other than the XR6, which has (in the last few years) become the hottest thing a P plater can own, most Falcodores have a much lower resale value than their Euro brothers. Percentage wise you usually do far better.

Another thing is when people get all up in arms about the Lotus/FPV/300C cop cars that get around, saying that tax payer money is being wasted on luxury cars. These cars all get sold off at the auctions and usually net a far higher resale percentage than the Falcodore equivalent.

So expensive cop cars need not always be such a bad thing.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Shounak

I know I'd definitely stay away from Falcon/Commodores as new car purchases. The depreciation on them is ridiculous.

It's like they half in value every 3-4 years.

Maybe I am the rarity these days.

Ford seem to be able to get 40,000 off me every 10 years. Every 10 years I am leaving behind a car I love that have had virtually no problems in 250,000 - why do I even sell - to get the latest features (incl engine drivetrain etc)

Reality is, that after that many yrs/km there is virtually no diff between depr on any Med/Large sedan, So I am free to make my decision based on which car will cost me the least over 10yrs.

Because of the data for op costs coming from lease companies, it is hard to compare anything over a 10 year life - so you are left to 'gut feel'
My efII had no items over 1,000 in its 10yr/250km - only non-maintenance Items were 2 water pumps and a head gasket and the plastic radiator tank thingy - and this car was loved, but not babied !

I do not think I would take a 10 year risk on a car from a country that does not believe in 5y/o cars !

I reckon that if you are turning over cars in 3 years you should probably lease with a zero residual - let someone else do the maths.

Just some quick sums I'm thinking of now are the deprec figures of a 318i vs EF Falcon. I'll ignore ORC costs and compare over the 10 year horizon using the upper end of the private sale. Both are 1998 models.

BMW - $54,980 new, $13,400 now. $4158 PA.
Ford- $29,950 new, $3,900 now. $2605 PA.

Interesting, so over a 10 year horizon there's a fair difference.

Over a 3 year period using the above with 05 models.

We have.
Ford - $7118
BMW - $5933

So the BMW is actually much cheaper if you only keep your car for 3 years before upgrading.

Interesting.

[EgoFG]

your 10 year comparo (and conclusion) matches my experience and 'feeling'


but Either I am sick (pneumonia actually), or your 3 year figures are not complete - are these the actual depreciation from new figures ?

Originally Posted by Shounak

Over a 3 year period using the above with 05 models.

We have.
Ford - $7118
BMW - $5933

So the BMW is actually much cheaper if you only keep your car for 3 years before upgrading.

Interesting.

I would think the figures would be even more in Ford's favour if we had running/maintaining costs.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Well done, do you want a medal?

Resale is all relative when you look at the big picture.. Theres plenty of high price euros that have similar resale percentages to Fords and Holdens. The key to sucess with buy either as a private buyer is buying the models that have the better resale and not going mad with factory optoins, e.g. XR6 / SV6 sedans with no options and some discount still fair well resale wise. Its when you walk in and pay top dollar then add an extra 7 - 8 kay worth of factory options you get rooted up the , because we all know options mean nothing at trade in time!

Id still buy a Falcon or Commodore before id buy anything else, and it isnt because im a bogan, its because they are a bloody good product (holden less so) for the money!

Well done, do you want a medal?

There are plenty of comparitively priced vehicles that are worth a lot more at resale than Falcon/Commodore. I'm sure if you compared a 2004 Accord to a 2004 Fairmont, there would be an enormous difference in resale. I'd even go you one further, put a 2004 Accord Euro against a 2004 Ghia even though the Ghia would be around $10k more brand new and the Euro would still be worth more today.