How True are Redbook Values

[honer]

Originally Posted by Ford_V8

Remember that something's only worth what someone will pay for it. Seems to be alot of " This is a great price for something like this so ****** off if you think otherwise " around the for sale section. It's these same cars that are still sitting there 6 months later without any interest. I think the redbook price anger is just sellers coming to the harsh realisation that their car is worth thousands less than they hoped. Most buyers would use the redbook evaluation as a guide anyway so chances are if your car is higher than the range there they won't be interested unless its got something special to show for itself.

Well said mate.

[DOC]

I have seen redbook as a guide, but by taking ave K's etc you can adjust the price, also mods are based on the % value from new to now, very rough but a better view, I have attached a simple spreadsheet if you want to test it.

Edit Orange cells Only

[jason_85]

Thats well thought out you get a very good rough idea aswell.......

I am sure it will be handy for sellers to

[Nickxb]

Originally Posted by DOC

I have seen redbook as a guide, but by taking ave K's etc you can adjust the price, also mods are based on the % value from new to now, very rough but a better view, I have attached a simple spreadsheet if you want to test it.

Edit Orange cells Only

Well done mate, very handy tool.

[Yaw]

I can tell you guys for fact, that most of the time Glasses and red Book are right on the money. If not they are usually more than what the market value is. Someone mentioned about servicing and mods, well thing to remember about mods is that for each mod, you usually take off a piece of oem equipment. For instance a Sports exhaust and extractors, you removed a factory exhaust system and manifold and maybe sold them on ebay.
The parts you replaced them with are probably not worth as much as the genuine spare part, therefore you have actually devauled your vehicle not increased the value.

[XWGT]

Well I have a theory for cars under 5 years old, and it really seem's to hold true.

Basically the current market price = the % balloon payment for leasing purposes

From memory the allowable percentages are

24 months 50%
to
60 months 30%

All fleets etc are only looking to cover the balloon payment on their vehicles when they turn them over for new ones. So basically you have thousands and thousands of cars being traded for ballon payment value every year which simply has a large enough effect to set the benchmark prices.

There will be slight variations for options, klm's, condition etc but the avarage car will fetch around those prices.

[XR_Strider_GuY]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

Remember trade in price is not the dealers selling price. Dealers are out to make profit yes over the years the profit margin has shrunk but fact remains if they sell at the price they take it of a seller wheres the profit.

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

You also forgot to copy and paste the lower part of the web page that reads:

Please Note:

Prices quoted include standard equipment.
However, allowance should be made for any added optional equipment. Click on "specifications" for details of standard and optional equipment.

* Trade-In Price Guide assumes that the vehicle is in average condition with average kilometres.

* Private Sale Price Guide may be different to a dealer's retail price because the dealer prepares the vehicle more thoroughly, both mechanically and aesthetically, and provides a consumer warranty.

* Recommended Retail Price (RRP): Prices of new units are RRP from the manufacturer and do not include dealer on road costs e.g. Registration, warranty, delivery costs. Charges can differ from state to state.

[billyb35]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

Or you got done over! :

Their indication values only in any case. Sounds about right for my car:

2004 FORD FALCON

BA XT Sedan 4dr SA 4sp 4.0i
Prices based on km 45,000 - 75,000
Trade in price guide* $10,600 - $12,200
National average price - private sale* $13,300 - $16,100
Price when new (RRP) $34,780

[BENT_8]

Having spent many years working for dealers and buying/selling cars the first mistake people make when buying a car from a dealer is asking what their car is worth.
It is like saying to the dealer, here's my wallet take what you wish.
New cars carry extra expenses which cover delivery etc. and so the RRP on a new car will always be in excess of the true value.
When a dealer gives you money for your car on a new car he can usually absorb some of it through the over inflated hidden extras accosiated with buying the new car.
You will find in most cases one of the first things they ask is 'what are you trading' this gives them the upper hand in terms of what they will quote you.
What this means is that he makes you think you are getting good money for your car but in essence he simply robs peter to pay paul.
I find it best to say, 'no trade mate' then when they give you a price you say 'i have a trade in' and work from there, atleast he cant bump up the purchase price however you will need to barter a good trade in at real dollar figures.
Expecting top dollar for older cars is wasting your time as they dont care how precious your old bomb is to them its just another trade in.

Used cars on the other hand are nearly always traded for around $5k less than they will advertise it for if it is their kind of stock.
This allows for movement in the deal, warranty and pre-delivery servicing.
Again the dealer knows how he can sweeten the deal without hurting his margin.

I have found the best way to approach a trade in value is to not ask 'whats mine worth' but rather 'whats the change over price'
This gives them the opportunity to put a real dollar value on both cars. and not a 'this is my inflated price' and 'heres your red book price'.
If the change over price to get out of yours and into theirs is reasonable then you can work a deal and the real values dont come into it.
Infact if you work on a 'change over price' he can lower his asking price on paper and your trade in price leaving you with the same out of pocket expense but with a much smaller stamp duty fee to pay.
Next time a dealer offers you a red book price ask him to show you the red book price of the car your buying, chances are he wont.

[feebs]

An even better way is to first take your car to a different dealer to get valued.. all dealers within an area will take it to the same wholesaler to be valued anyway, so when you go back to where the car is you want to buy, you know exactly what the wholesaler is going to pay the dealer, then tell them the x/over price you want, rather than ask them.

[jason_85]

what about printing out the specific redbook value for the car your interested in and say...... how do you think you will get anything close to that!

i checked out an XR6T ute up here and they wanted over $6500 more than the top bracket of the private sale price

i think i will end up getting a broker to do the work for me

[BENT_8]

At the end of the day the dealers will always win because they rely on most purchasing people accepting what they say as gospel and the few who dont accept it will be replaced with those who do.
It's a law of averages and the average buyer doesn't consult red book.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

At the end of the day the dealers will always win because they rely on most purchasing people accepting what they say as gospel and the few who dont accept it will be replaced with those who do.
It's a law of averages and the average buyer doesn't consult red book.

True...... you would think these days Redbook would be a fairly known site and tool???

[BENT_8]

The majority of car purchases are impulse deals, you drive past the yard, see the car, and want the car.
Another catch they use is ' If you agree to put your name on a deal i will put it to my manager' which in most cases will be returned with 'ok if you sign now' which leaves you unable to do your homework and again those who dont play ball are replaced with those who will.

What alot of people dont realise is that most large franchise dealers make more profit from spare parts and so dont need to rely on turning over cars as fast to make money meaning that if you dont buy it someone will.
Around 100 days is the average time a car can sit on the yard before they will consider dropping the price and very few last that long.

[Sprint_ED]

they have sprints as 6-8k which is redicoulos and eb gt's at 12-15k

[Barry_v]

1970 FORD FAIRLANE
ZC 500 Sedan 4dr Auto 3sp 351
National average price - private sale* $2,000 - $4,500

absolute rubbish, a quick search of the trader (australia wide) and I came up with a grand total of 3 similar cars, as there are simply no ZC 351s for sale.

$17000 (ZC 302)
$20900 (ZD 351)
$7900 (ZD 302)

so what friggin drugs are they on? how can they come up with such drastically wrong figures?

[jason_85]

it doesnt work well for rarer cars.....

[Walkinshaw]

Anything pre 1995 rebook is an absolute Joke

[jason_85]

yeah i would say thats cause the variance in condition would be huge.......

for enthusiasts like people on forums they tend to look after there car immaculately but i am sure there would be others out there with the exact same car that bring the averages down

[kocho]

It depends a lot on the car being sold.

On average would say they are a little low.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

1970 FORD FAIRLANE
ZC 500 Sedan 4dr Auto 3sp 351
National average price - private sale* $2,000 - $4,500

absolute rubbish, a quick search of the trader (australia wide) and I came up with a grand total of 3 similar cars, as there are simply no ZC 351s for sale.

$17000 (ZC 302)
$20900 (ZD 351)
$7900 (ZD 302)

so what friggin drugs are they on? how can they come up with such drastically wrong figures?

The problem is that they use an average sale price as a guide.
By your own admissions there are no 351ZC's for sale so its impossible to get an accurate guide and obviously not every Zc/D is in concourse condition.
In this situation they would consider the age, demand etc. for such a thing and come up with a realistic value to the average joe bloggs.
That doesn't mean your Fairlane aint worth big bucks but it would mean you should get an independant valuation done by someone familliar with your car pedigree

[carazy]

Sorry guys, redbook is almost deadly accurate on almost all cars of age and type.
Only a fellow enthusiast will pay any decent money for an older car which makes the likely hood of a value above redbook VERY remote.

People in general have a psychological trait that overvalues whatever they own but undervalues differing products that others own.
So if you asked on fordforums the value of a EL XR6 you would get lots of enthusiastic responces about the car being "sick" and worth heaps and good luck and all the rest of it.

But if you go post your car on a non ford forums.. like overclockers or performance forums or alike then you'll get told it's worth around redbook value or less, and there will always be some smart telling you just to scrap it and move on.

The reality is that people that don't own the same car as you are far more likely to be realistic regarding it's value.

Cars are depreciating assets no matter what mods you do and expensive servicing costs just means it's had done what every car should have.
If you spend mega-dollars on a very rare model car then MAY-BE just MAY-BE it will be worth something in the future but that's about it.

and if you paid above redbook then, unless you purchased from a dealer you ripped yourself off.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by carazy

Sorry guys, redbook is almost deadly accurate on almost all cars of age and type.
Only a fellow enthusiast will pay any decent money for an older car which makes the likely hood of a value above redbook VERY remote.

People in general have a psychological trait that overvalues whatever they own but undervalues differing products that others own.
So if you asked on fordforums the value of a EL XR6 you would get lots of enthusiastic responces about the car being "sick" and worth heaps and good luck and all the rest of it.

But if you go post your car on a non ford forums.. like overclockers or performance forums or alike then you'll get told it's worth around redbook value or less, and there will always be some smart telling you just to scrap it and move on.

The reality is that people that don't own the same car as you are far more likely to be realistic regarding it's value.

Cars are depreciating assets no matter what mods you do and expensive servicing costs just means it's had done what every car should have.
If you spend mega-dollars on a very rare model car then MAY-BE just MAY-BE it will be worth something in the future but that's about it.

and if you paid above redbook then, unless you purchased from a dealer you ripped yourself off.

I would have to disagree with regards to older vehicles. If i advertised my LTD at redbook value i could almost gaurentee it would sell within 24hours without much trouble. My LTD was purchased at nigh on 2.5-3 times the redbook value, and I would not say I was ripped of by any means.

You have to laugh at alot of the values. $2500-4500 for a ZC 500 351. If 2500 is average/rough condition and $4500 is good/excelent, well It would apear that it is some 4times below what they actualy go for.

As for vehicles being depreciating assets, agreed this holds true for probably 98% of vehicles, however as redbook, this does not apply to older vehicles. Including rego, insurance & running costs my LTD Apreciated a few grand last year going by other sales. I know of a certan Fairlane that has arguable doubled in value in 2years as well.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by carazy

Sorry guys, redbook is almost deadly accurate on almost all cars of age and type.
Only a fellow enthusiast will pay any decent money for an older car which makes the likely hood of a value above redbook VERY remote.

People in general have a psychological trait that overvalues whatever they own but undervalues differing products that others own.
So if you asked on fordforums the value of a EL XR6 you would get lots of enthusiastic responces about the car being "sick" and worth heaps and good luck and all the rest of it.

But if you go post your car on a non ford forums.. like overclockers or performance forums or alike then you'll get told it's worth around redbook value or less, and there will always be some smart telling you just to scrap it and move on.

The reality is that people that don't own the same car as you are far more likely to be realistic regarding it's value.

Cars are depreciating assets no matter what mods you do and expensive servicing costs just means it's had done what every car should have.
If you spend mega-dollars on a very rare model car then MAY-BE just MAY-BE it will be worth something in the future but that's about it.

and if you paid above redbook then, unless you purchased from a dealer you ripped yourself off.

HUH? You serious? It may be accurate for newer cars but is absolutely worthless for anything collectible, older, rare, or built before 1990.

These are the top dollar figures. The lower scales was just plain silly

XY GT 111 ..........$395,000
XA GT COUPE ..... $64,000
XB 351 COUPE .....$13,500
Landau ........$4,300
XR GT ........ $31,100 (One sold on ebay last night for $110,000)
XA 500 sedan ..... $1800 (Paid close to this for a rusty piece of poo, now find one for under this complete)

Double those above and you are almost there! Just a quicky as got bored. Colours will alter the above prices by another 30% alone .....



| [/url] |

[BENT_8]

One of my good mates has a 71 HQ prem 308 factory 4sp in mint condition, red book says around 2-4K depending on condition.
Insurance company(RAA) said $500.
He was offered $17k 2 weeks ago but will never sell it.

The point is where can you just buy another to replace it, you cant, and things like red book should consider this if they wish to list these cars and not treat them as depreciating daily drivers.

[phoonfan]

Red book, Glesses Giude, etc are just that, A guide.
A Car is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it! end of story!
If a car sits in a yard/garage, wether private or dealer, for an extended period, then its a good chance the asking price is too much. Anything in a dealers yard over 90 days is often seen as to dear, i've to ripped up thousands, paying to much for a trade in and 9 months later its still sitting threre. but at the end of the day, there is a "bum for every seat" at a price!
With Record new car sales year over year, and the price of new cars either dropping or remaining consistant, used car values are going to drop even more than they have in the past (blame salary packaging, tarrif reductions, competition, whatever) the fact is, more new cars means more used cars down the track and less buyers (because they are salary packaging new ones). Hence supply and demand has a HUGH effect on ued car prices and fluctuates rapidly.
It's never been a better time to buy a late model used car, but it will get better. dosent matter the make or model...competition if so fierce that manufactures will absorb price increases, updates, currency flucuations, new features to sell you a new car. So you pay the same for a new one as you did 5-7 years ago, with a host of extra features. So what does that make yours worth??? (excluding the collectables). Taking the emotion out of it! what would you be willing to pay for your own car? if you saw it advertised, taking into consideration, condition, klm etc & the replacement cost of a new one, I'd imagine a lot would be shocked!

[Barry_v]

Originally Posted by carazy

Sorry guys, redbook is almost deadly accurate on almost all cars of age and type.

yeah... no deal.

[GSH]

red book sucks dude.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by GSH

red book sucks dude.

i am guessing your a seller? not a buyer