NSW has banned the sale of write off's

[burnz]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

must have been very unlucky, but who ever said you should get a repairable write off that only has minor damage, its just the norm,you were unlucky, so the rest of us should suffer.

maybe insurance company's wont be so quick to write off if they can't hock them at auction.

it maybe cheaper to repair instead.

[Airmon]

They would be better off making it harder to re-register them rather then to ban them completely.
Have it sent to the RTA inspection rather then Blue slip.

[LTDHO]

From August, write-offs will be crushed and entered onto a register.

Is re-birthing really that bad in NSW?

Seem like a lot of people will loose out if this comes into place.
I'm sure the insurance companies will band together and fight this.

[Kryton]

All that will happen if this happens is this:
Car is assessed as not viable (cost wise or damage wise) to be repaired,
Car gets put on a truck and taken to an Auction Yard in another State and put up for Auction.
Car is bought in other state, repaired and put back on the road.

There is no chance in hell Insurers are going to miss out on the chance of recouping some money (rightfully so too IMO).

[aussie muscle]

i suppose it'll be good for car breakers. lots more cars for parts (and probably cheaper too, because they can't be sold complete). last night on the abc radio they mentioned it hadn't passed parliment, just the minister going on about 'not apologising' about doing it.

[PANELCORP]

Think you guys are missing the point here

The change is designed to allow the repairer to fix the car at the first incident.

This eliminates the black market trade in vehicle ID tags and dodgy repairs

The insurers will be forced to repair the cars at the first impact and return them to the original owner - not write them off and get an abnormally high salvage value as it is going to be used to re-birth a stolen car or dodgily repaired and shipped interstate.

As a repairer we welcome the change as too many repairable cars have been written off on paper due to ridiculously high salvage values.

Apparently 21,000 repairable write offs were registered in NSW last year from 80,000 that were written off by the insurers - who knows where the rest of them went.

Right offs for unsafe cars will continue

But hopefully write offs to get high salvage values brough about by a black market trade in ID tags or dodgy repairs that are then sold as new in another state, will hopefully come to an end and the cars that can be repaired will be returned to the original owner in a pre-accident condition by a licenced qualified body repairer!!!!

[Bobman]

So there might be less shifty looking characters at Pickles now?

[PANELCORP]

We can only hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NSW RTA confirmed today that all cars will be noted as Stat write offs on the register nationally - so they will not be registerable anywhere in Australia.

Lets hope the other states follow very quickly to get it to a national consensus this year !!!

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/64435/ns...f-legislation/

NSW Government to introduce new repairable write-off legislation

April 9, 2010 by Matt Brogan

The NSW Government’s Minister for Transport and Roads, Mr David Campbell has today announced new legislation to ban the re-registration of all repairable written-off vehicles.

The move comes as the Government toughens its stance of car rebirthing, and means vehicles that have been written-off by an insurer can no longer be sold at auction.

It is hoped the new legislation, which is due to be implemented from August this year, will help stop the sale of potentially unsafe vehicles to unsuspecting customers.

“There is a black market for purchasing written-off vehicles at auctions, then using stolen parts to rebirth and register the car, to be sold for a tidy profit,” said Mr Campbell.

“This isn’t being done by licensed repairers – in most instances it’s not financially viable for genuine repairers to repair these cars using legitimate parts,

“In many cases, it’s being done by unscrupulous operators in backyards and workshops using stolen parts, who then sell the vehicles to unwary motorists,

“Some consumers are being taken for a ride – motorists might be driving around in what’s effectively a stolen vehicle,

“More importantly, many of these vehicles have had dodgy repairs which can mask major structural damage. It’s extremely unsafe,

“Car re-birthing is a significant problem which has been known to have links to organised crime syndicates,

“Today’s announcement will put a massive dent in these illegal operations,

“It’s estimated that as many as six out of ten of the 20,537 repairable written-off vehicles presented for re-registration in 2009 posed serious questions about the origin of the parts used to repair them,

“Around 19,000 vehicles were stolen in NSW in the 2008-09 financial year – of these, around 5,700 have not been recovered,

“Today’s announcement means any car which is written off will not be able to be reregistered even if it can be repaired.”

Mr Campbell said today’s announcement follows a discussion paper released for consultation in August last year, and that he hopes other states will follow the example set by the NSW state government and implement similar laws.

“What we found was that consumers – as well as legitimate car dealers and repairers – wanted better protections in place,” explained Mr Campbell.

“NSW is the first state to introduce this ban on repairable write-offs, and we would encourage other states to follow our lead and implement similar laws,

“There will be very limited exemptions to the new laws – for some vehicles written off because of hail damage, and for some classic antique cars.

“We will also strengthen written-off vehicle notification requirements – for example, vehicles currently being sent to a scrap yard for crushing are not required to be registered on the Written-off Vehicle Register (WOVR) and this presents an additional opportunity for rebirthing.”

The new laws will be introduced in addition to the RTA’s Vehicle History Check service launched last year.

“The RTA’s Vehicle History Check service allows potential buyers to check whether a used car has ever been written-off anywhere in Australia,” said Mr Campbell.

“The service also provides customers with details of a car’s history including the number of previous owners, when it was first registered in NSW and odometer readings,

“All you need is the car’s registration plate details, vehicle type and the last four digits of the VIN/chassis number,

“It’s a simple check you can do on the RTA website for under $20.”

The new laws will be implemented following stringent legislative change and will take effect in August this year.

[reece1]

[QUOTE=LTDHO]Is re-birthing really that bad in NSW? ]


yes

[reece1]

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

Think you guys are missing the point here

The change is designed to allow the repairer to fix the car at the first incident.

This eliminates the black market trade in vehicle ID tags and dodgy repairs

The insurers will be forced to repair the cars at the first impact and return them to the original owner - not write them off and get an abnormally high salvage value as it is going to be used to re-birth a stolen car or dodgily repaired and shipped interstate.

As a repairer we welcome the change as too many repairable cars have been written off on paper due to ridiculously high salvage values.

Apparently 21,000 repairable write offs were registered in NSW last year from 80,000 that were written off by the insurers - who knows where the rest of them went.

Right offs for unsafe cars will continue

But hopefully write offs to get high salvage values brough about by a black market trade in ID tags or dodgy repairs that are then sold as new in another state, will hopefully come to an end and the cars that can be repaired will be returned to the original owner in a pre-accident condition by a licenced qualified body repairer!!!!

well explained

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

must have been very unlucky, but who ever said you should get a repairable write off that only has minor damage, its just the norm,you were unlucky, so the rest of us should suffer.

I never bought the car to repair, I bought it to strip down and use the parts to build an ICV (DRB 540). I was lucky, mechanically it was perfect. You think you will suffer from this change to written off cars, I think the opposite. Less people will suffer because there will be a large reduction in dangerously repaired cars.

[OLDFORDNUT]

you have to provide evidence of all parts you replaced when you get the wov certificate removed, they check all repairs as well,so i dont know what makes anyone think dangerouse dodgy cars are been put on road, thats the whole idea of the repairable write off list ,to stop rebirths,and dodgy repairs,
Maybe in NSW (crime capitol of Australia)they have corruption in the transport authority as ive never seen evidence of what Panelcorp and a few others on here are talking about.the words SELF INTEREST spring to mind

[PANELCORP]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

you have to provide evidence of all parts you replaced when you get the wov certificate removed, they check all repairs as well,so i dont know what makes anyone think dangerouse dodgy cars are been put on road, thats the whole idea of the repairable write off list ,to stop rebirths,and dodgy repairs,
Maybe in NSW (crime capitol of Australia)they have corruption in the transport authority as ive never seen evidence of what Panelcorp and a few others on here are talking about.the words SELF INTEREST spring to mind

Mate,

Again you are poorly informed

Have a look on the links below to give you an idea of the extent of what I was referring to

http://www.ivic.com.au/auctions.htm
http://www.ivic.com.au/rebirthed.htm


I am only looking to have the good name of Autobody Repairers re-instated to being respected like the other members of the automotive community

I have personally seen several vehicles that have been brought to us after an accident that have clearly been repaired poorly previously.

We simply refuse to work on them, as I will not be held liable if the vehicle is involved in an accident and found not to be roadworthy

Would we like to repair more cars - of course we would - its our income and our industry

Would we like to see less cars stolen and less instances of dodgy repairs - of course we would - this is what has tarnished the industry and seen many good repairers grouped in with the bad!!!!

[Yaw]

I've been thinking about this thread before putting my 2 cents worth in.

Someone said they would think that the insurance compaines would band togther to oppose this.

I am not so sure about this.
It seems to me from what I see when looking at salvage values in most cases salvage on a write off is not that great anyway.

So therefore it stands to reason if these cars are now stat write offs there is suddenly a much larger market of 2nd hand parts to use for repairs. Hence making 2nd hand part prices lower, hence making costs of repairs lower.
Seems to me insurers will not want to oppose this since its benifit out wieghs the loss.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

Mate,

Again you are poorly informed

Have a look on the links below to give you an idea of the extent of what I was referring to

http://www.ivic.com.au/auctions.htm
http://www.ivic.com.au/rebirthed.htm


I am only looking to have the good name of Autobody Repairers re-instated to being respected like the other members of the automotive community

I have personally seen several vehicles that have been brought to us after an accident that have clearly been repaired poorly previously.

We simply refuse to work on them, as I will not be held liable if the vehicle is involved in an accident and found not to be roadworthy

Would we like to repair more cars - of course we would - its our income and our industry

Would we like to see less cars stolen and less instances of dodgy repairs - of course we would - this is what has tarnished the industry and seen many good repairers grouped in with the bad!!!!

i just followed your links and they all show or talk same stuff as why we needed the Repairable Write off Register a few years ago, and the photo's of completely crushed cars asking which one is the repairable write off is absolutely decieving as ive been to over 15 repairable write off auctions ,and never seen major damage even close to those two photo's in fact the majority have damage so minor it is rediculouse that thay were even written off in the first place, ive never seen so much scaremongering as what your links show, FFS people go and look at a repairable write off auction before listening to such exagerations.its the spin from before we even had these new laws that is been rehashed to look like whats happening now ,Unless things have gone MAD in NSW as QLD ones only have moderate at worst to only minor damage at these auctions.

[Bobman]

I've been to plenty of damaged vehicle auctions here in Melbourne.

Some of the cars there that are repairable write offs you'd think should be statutory and vice versa. I've also been surprised at just how high some of the wrecked cars go for. Such as a badly damaged N/A BA XR6 that went for $7000 when you could buy a perfectly good ones from $9,000. Bidding wars are rife through there, but I suspect that some of the highest bids on auctions are not to repair the cars legitimately.

[silverau11]

the mta ( motor traders association ) has been trying to to push this legislation through for a while now, and looks like they have succeeded. i agree with your statement panelcorp its good news. it gets rid of alot of the criminal element which inturn makes our performance cars safer to be left while we duck into the shop, and it will get rid of the backyard bob who buys the cars and is clearly way out of his depth in repairing the car to its pre-accident state, then on-sells it to some unsuspecting person on internet auction sites. clearly a good decision

[9triton]

Today’s announcement means any car which is written off will not be able to be reregistered even if it can be repaired.”

There will be very limited exemptions to the new laws – for some vehicles written off because of hail damage, and for some classic antique cars.

wonder how this will effect classic cars -
my XP if it has any panel damge, will most likely have reapairs exceeding the car value -so i assume it will be written off

then what ?
no body can reapir and reegister it in NSW so another old classic bites the dust..?


lucky i live in VIC...

[Zedjay]

what if say i bought a Repairable Write off a few weeks ago and all thats wrong with it is that it was keyed all over.... can i register it or would i have to scrap it??

[Angeldust]

In 2001 my mother crashed her then 93 model mitsu lancer and was at fault and didn't have insurance (silly her). After weighing the costs of whether to repair or not, we decided that it will be just better to sell the car to a wreckers. This i did, selling it to a 'reputable' wreckers in Brisbane.
A year later the police arrive at my front door asking a lot of questions about the car and it turns out that it was involved in a re-bitrh racket.

[trippytaka]

Finally!

When I was looking for a 2nd hand car about a year ago (ended up with an AU series 2), I reckon I saw at least 10 cars that were batantly cut and shut - terrible workmanship and so obvious. So badly done! The of "owners" who denied the car had been recently re-registered. "Nah bro, I just changed da plates cause dey were faded bro", or "i picked it up in Melbourne cause I'm selling it for my uncle who had to go back to (insert country of origin here)."

I just feel so sorry for the average Joe with no knowledge of cars at all... some of these cars were so dangerous!

[Pis-ton broke]

Maybe it will slow down re-birthing, and anybody can do a bad fix up and sell on, you,ll never stop that.
What about old cars like 9triton,s XP for example?
And the old tradition of getting a crapped out oldie or newer car, and fixing it up for yourself, which is what i want to do.

I,m mainly talking about light to heavy panel damage, not structural. After all, a light to heavy panel damage repair isn,t really going to affect the outcome of an accident is it??
However with a structural repaired car, it may be a different story.
Its all very nice for those people with money, that can go out and buy a XR6 or whatever, I am "back yard Bob" and i do the best with what i have, so i'll get my XR6 another way. I,ll go and buy a wrecked one, and fix it.

Now where do i go for a damaged car now?

Can,t the re-birth problems be fixed another way?

[XCCobra351]

The other side of the coin I guess is the NSW auction houses will suffer. I can see insurance companies trucking their cars intersate to get more profits. I hope as previously stated that once they are written off in NSW they cannot be registerted anywhere in Oz. I can also see it affecting the insurance premiums in NSW. If it means that the insurance company has to fork out for repairs that would cause a smaller net return to them than if they were to write them off I can see people in NSW paying higher premiums. Also in regards to second hand parts being cheaper and lowering repair costs that would only be true if your insurance company fitted second hand parts to damaged vehicles. Yes, some do but you can usually I believe check this in your insurance policy. Personally I would be upset to have second hand parts put on my late model car if new parts were available just so the insurance company could save a buck. As usual there are pros and cons for both here. I think it is a great thing for reputable repairers.Personally I agree it would be wiser for vehicles that have been recorded as written off but repairable to then be subject to a full RTA inspection and the inspections should be completed by the RTA so there can be no "backyard blueslips" written out. The regulations for this inspection should also be very thorough. I don't think anyone who is legitimately repairing a write off would have a problem with it. Just my two cents worth. :

[jakkes]

Originally Posted by 9triton

wonder how this will effect classic cars -
my XP if it has any panel damge, will most likely have reapairs exceeding the car value -so i assume it will be written off

then what ?
no body can reapir and reegister it in NSW so another old classic bites the dust..?


lucky i live in VIC...

my thoughts exactly

[PANELCORP]

OK

The RTA has confirmed that all vehicles will be listed on the Stat write Off register - so no moving them interstate by insurers, dodgy repairers or sellers

They will be listed just like a car that has money owing on it is listed on REVS

Old cars will be fine as the majority of insurers who have them (shannons) will not let them be written off

This is a law to stop illegal activity - not remove classics from the road

Salvage values should drop meaning more cars are repaired and returned to the road - classics will always be OK as they normally have agreed value cover and are over insured (I know mine are), because of the rarity of them.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by XCCobra351

The other side of the coin I guess is the NSW auction houses will suffer. I can see insurance companies trucking their cars intersate to get more profits. I hope as previously stated that once they are written off in NSW they cannot be registerted anywhere in Oz. I can also see it affecting the insurance premiums in NSW. If it means that the insurance company has to fork out for repairs that would cause a smaller net return to them than if they were to write them off I can see people in NSW paying higher premiums. Also in regards to second hand parts being cheaper and lowering repair costs that would only be true if your insurance company fitted second hand parts to damaged vehicles. Yes, some do but you can usually I believe check this in your insurance policy. Personally I would be upset to have second hand parts put on my late model car if new parts were available just so the insurance company could save a buck. As usual there are pros and cons for both here. I think it is a great thing for reputable repairers.Personally I agree it would be wiser for vehicles that have been recorded as written off but repairable to then be subject to a full RTA inspection and the inspections should be completed by the RTA so there can be no "backyard blueslips" written out. The regulations for this inspection should also be very thorough. I don't think anyone who is legitimately repairing a write off would have a problem with it. Just my two cents worth. :

Very well written,as for the inspections,here in wide bay we have to get a RWC,supply all proof of repairs and reciepts for all parts used then leave car at inspection place for 8 hours while they check repairs are done properly,i dont know about NSW but a cut and shut with stolen parts would be picked up very fast and the sh*te would hit the fan,.
i certainly take exception to all the raving about back yard bodgy repairs alluded to by several people on here as being the norm,we on this forum restore and repair cars all the time and ive seen lots of photo's as proof of that good work by the back yarders with stunning results,just look at the projects section, then tell me that we are all substandard and putting dangerous turds on the road as Panelcorp and a couple of others keep alluding to.
sounds like the stuff of nightmares down in NSW so if it is so dishonest with corrupt inspectors everywhere ,then maybe its understandable whats been changed, as for us back yarders several also alluded to us being a pack of car thieves too,who rebirth cars for a dishonest living,ive never stolen a car in my life
GOOD ON YOU

[burnz]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

Very well written,as for the inspections,here in wide bay we have to get a RWC,supply all proof of repairs and reciepts for all parts used then leave car at inspection place for 8 hours while they check repairs are done properly,i dont know about NSW but a cut and shut with stolen parts would be picked up very fast and the sh*te would hit the fan,.
i certainly take exception to all the raving about back yard bodgy repairs alluded to by several people on here as being the norm,we on this forum restore and repair cars all the time and ive seen lots of photo's as proof of that good work by the back yarders with stunning results,just look at the projects section, then tell me that we are all substandard and putting dangerous turds on the road as Panelcorp and a couple of others keep alluding to.
sounds like the stuff of nightmares down in NSW so if it is so dishonest with corrupt inspectors everywhere ,then maybe its understandable whats been changed, as for us back yarders several also alluded to us being a pack of car thieves too,who rebirth cars for a dishonest living,ive never stolen a car in my life
GOOD ON YOU

doing up a car for your personal use is differant to repair writeoff for profit.
so i buy an FG that had a minor tap in the front new bar cheap, airbag's not so cheap.

[buickman]

The outcome of this law MIGHT be that insurance companies will start their own large panel shops and have like a production line to keep cost down forcing smaller panel shops out of businesses if they cannot afford to update their equipment and get good employees that have some type of work ethics.

[vztrt]

NSW goes it alone on anti-car theft bans

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25770A00036283

Fears that cars stolen in NSW will be re-birthed interstate to beat write-off bans

19 April 2010

By PHILIP LORD

AN impending ban on re-registration of repairable written-off (RWO) vehicles in New South Wales will create jurisdiction headaches and increase cross-border vehicle thefts, according to the National Motor Vehicle Theft Reduction Council (NMVTRC).

Executive director Ray Carroll said the NMVTRC was not against the bans, but believed the unilateral move to ban RWOs in NSW from August would have implications for other states.

“We’re not critical of what the NSW government has done; we’ve just tried to highlight the problems with it,” he said.

“NSW has quite a slice of repairable write-offs presenting for re-registration. However, the other jurisdictions don’t believe in a total ban.”

By the NMVTRC’s figures, NSW contributed the largest number of stolen-not-recovered vehicles to Australia’s total in 2008. Close to a third of all thefts in NSW were profit-motivated; 80 per cent of vehicles targeted were made before 2004; and half of the nation’s profit-motivated theft was in NSW.

Authorities suspect many of these vehicles are RWOs fixed using parts from stolen cars and onsold for a profit once repaired and re-registered.

The RTA estimates that 60 per cent of the 20,000 repairable write-offs returning to the road per year have dubious repairs and that most of the people presenting at RTA branches to re-register such cars were not in the RTA customer service officers’ experience those typically associated in the motor repair trade.

Mr Carroll said the ban was unlikely to significantly reduce crime in NSW while criminal networks could steal vehicles in NSW and launder them elsewhere.

It was highly unlikely other states and territories would be able to refuse some NSW written-off vehicles for registration.

NSW vehicles that would have been deemed repairable write-offs will pass the other states’ repairable write-off requirements, despite appearing on the national database as statutory write-offs.

Mr Carroll said this created a legislative inconsistency that would open avenues for thieves to exploit.

He said other states would have to either move to adopt NSW’s proposal or allow registration of NSW write-offs in accordance with their own criteria – despite being a signatory to an agreement not to allow the registration of statutory write-offs from other states.

“Already 40 per cent of repairable write-offs presenting for registration do so other than the state they were written off in,” Mr Carroll said.

Yet the NSW government said the ban involved wide consultation with other states and the NMVTRC.

A spokesman for NSW roads and transport minister David Campbell said: “The RTA consulted extensively with other jurisdictions in developing its proposals via its discussion paper on improving written-off vehicle management and via the national vehicle registration and licensing forum of Austroads.”

The minister’s spokesman also pointed to a NMVTRC study two years ago – Review Of The Management Of Written-off Vehicles Preliminary Report October 2008 – that concluded a ban would be financially beneficial to insurers and vehicle owners.

“The National Motor Vehicle Theft Reduction Council's national review of written-off vehicles during 2008 concluded that a complete ban on the re-registration of repairable write-offs would provide the highest national financial benefit to vehicle owners and insurers,” the spokesman said.

However, NMVTRC strategy and programming director Geoff Hughes said that while the council believed its cost analysis provided the best figures available, it required a leap of faith by insurance companies.

It was, he said, an “informed estimation” rather than a guaranteed result.

Those companies potentially most affected by the decision – insurance companies and auction houses – were not willing to comment on the ban.

Insurance companies NRMA and GIO said through their respective media departments that they did not wish to comment until they had seen full details of the legislation.

ManheimFowles, one of two principal auction houses in Australia that sells WROs on consignment from insurance companies, did not wish to comment.

ManheimFowles communications manager Mathew McAuley added that RWOs accounted for about 70 per cent of the company’s salvage sales in NSW.

While re-birthing once involved transferring identification numbers from a written-off vehicle to an identical stolen vehicle, Mr Carroll said improvements in detection had almost completely eradicated this form of re-birthing.

Instead thieves swap parts from a stolen vehicle to a legitimately purchased RWO – which can be purchased at a salvage auction for as little as 20 per cent of its undamaged market value – and then make a profit on-selling the complete, re-registered car.

The cost of the stolen vehicle’s parts – up to tens of thousands of dollars – effectively represented the thieves’ profit margin.

Mr Carroll said the NSW government’s system was burdened by the large quantity of RWOs presented for registration in NSW – around 20,000 per year – and that police had discovered that criminals manipulated the RTA’s RWO checks, such as obtaining forged receipts for repair parts, which required enormous resources to verify.

”Through our contact with the police, we’ve discovered there’s quite an active trade in forged receipts,” he said.

The end of the RWO scheme in NSW from August means all light vehicles, including motorcycles, trailers and caravans, deemed not repairable by the insurance assessor will automatically be classified as statutory write-offs, which means they are never again to be registered in any state.

Exemptions to the ban include rare enthusiasts’ vehicles, specified high value vehicles, collector’s vehicles and those with sentimental value (such as an heirloom or gift). The exemption will be based on market value or a declaration from the customer (based on policy requirements).

Exemptions will also be allowed for hail-damaged RWOs if kept by the same owner following hail damage.