FG2 FPV's - Page 2

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

F6 is not getting more power. Different wheels is about the extent of it.

That's not what I heard and I was talking to a very big birdie. Think about it...the F6 is getting absolutly killed in the market place by sales of the SC running at nearly 5:1 FPV want more sales out of the F6 and know 310 Kw's won't cut the mustard in 2012.

Quote:

Daniel XR8 If you look across at the G6E Turbo or Titanium Territory, you are left wondering what happened to the auto dimming mirror or the memory seats and sat nav among other things.

Its still bizarre to me that a GT-P misses things like memory seats. At that price point it should get everything including the kitchen sink.

Somehow I doubt FPV will do more then the minimum in bringing across FGII features, as there is still good money to be had in marking everything an extra cost option, when they get enough buyers to fork out for it.

Have to say I agree with you. I guess they have to differentiate their SC GT-E somehow although with the very slow sales of that model you'd be forgiven for wondering wonder why they bother with it.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

That's not what I heard and I was talking to a very big birdie. Think about it...the F6 is getting absolutly killed in the market place by sales of the SC running at nearly 5:1 FPV want more sales out of the F6 and know 310 Kw's doesn't cut the mustard in 2012.

I know which comment you're referring to and i really dont know how you drew the conclusions you did from it.
That's got nothing to do with how much power the F6 makes, FPV have stated very clearly there wont be any further development of the i6T.
FPV will concentrate on the GT now because it simply sells better..

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

That's got nothing to do with how much power the F6 makes, FPV have stated very clearly there wont be any further development of the i6T.
FPV will concentrate on the GT now because it simply sells better..

Yes that's what they have said on the record...

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 05:50 PM

I know this will rub some people up the wrong way and unleash a plethora of "hate" but we just got $40 mill spent on us... the development bickie jar is all but empty until FPV see some significant ROI... Anyone expecting more than some minor cosmetic tweaks and a bit of extra tech in FG2 FPV will be dissapointed.

If history is any guide id say the current engine outputs will have to do till FH.

SteveJH · 03-10-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

I know this will rub some people up the wrong way and unleash a plethora of "hate" but we just got $40 mill spent on us... the development bickie jar is all but empty until FPV see some significant ROI... Anyone expecting more than some minor cosmetic tweaks and a bit of extra tech in FG2 FPV will be dissapointed.

If history is any guide id say the current engine outputs will have to do till FH.

Thats only 2013 anyway.

I'd say the FPV's will get the FG2 upgrades flowing through from the outset as a "running upgrade" for the FG FPV's with an FPV upgrade to trim or body kit following through either sometime next year or with the FH update.

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

I know which comment you're referring to and i really dont know how you drew the conclusions you did from it.

Unless you are the very senior engineer I spoke to at FPV I don't know how you could possibly be privvy to what was discussed.

If you are i'm not sure how you expect to sell F6's with 310 kw's stamped on the back, the same output as over 3 years ago. No R&D = sales falling off the face of a cliff.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

If you are i'm not sure how you expect to sell F6's with 310 kw's stamped on the back, the same output as over 3 years ago. No R&D = sales falling off the face of a cliff.

What makes you think FPV have the F6 in their future plans?

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

What makes you think FPV have the F6 in their future plans?

Why would they just walk away from it when it would be so easy to extract more power with a bigger and thicker intercooler fitted into the greatly enhanced front air dam and more efficient airflow plumbing ?
How many times over has the F6 allready repaid its extremly modest R & D costs ? FPV walking away from the F6 = shooting themselves in the foot.
Engines good till 2015 and uses 10% less fuel than a SC V8 and makes compareable performance and is cheaper to make. What's not to like from a manufacturers perspective.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why would they just walk away from it when it would be so easy to extract more power with a bigger and thicker intercooler fitted into the greatly enhanced front air dam and more efficient airflow plumbing ?
How many times over has the F6 allready repaid its extremly modest R & D costs ?

Because 1) the s/c 5.0 does everything the I6T can and more and 2) the i6 engine will be phased out so why keep developing it when its brother is more popular and has more potential up its sleeve anyway.

FPV have too many models now meaning the R+D is spread too thin.

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 06:07 PM

F6 could be enhanced with an absolutly tiny R&D budget and this engine still has a very loyal following which will continue through to 2015.

A bigger intercooler and a re-tune is all that's required. Gee that'll really break the R&D budget won't it...

SteveJH · 03-10-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Because 1) the s/c 5.0 does everything the I6T can and more and 2) the i6 engine will be phased out so why keep developing it when its brother is more popular and has more potential up its sleeve anyway.

FPV have too many models now meaning the R+D is spread too thin.

They may as well keep the F6 around as long as they can, even if it doesnt get much in the way of upgrades between now and 2016.

If only because it has according to ADR figures
8.24% better fuel economy urban
11.65% better fuel economy extra-urban
9.56% better fuel economy combined

flappist · 03-10-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

F6 could be enhanced with an absolutly tiny R&D budget and this engine still has a very loyal following which will continue through to 2015.

A bigger intercooler and a re-tune is all that's required. Gee that'll really break the R&D budget won't it...

And that would be a great idea except for the ADR testing required. It will not be a tiny budget at all.

As far as the "won't sell because of the badge".....

2002 BA GT announced 290kw with demos about although first deliveries were early 2003.

2007 (5 years later) BF2 GT 40th edition 290kw sold out before first unit delivered.....

The primary reason for the drop in sales of FPVs is the economy, nothing else. Soon it will be all happy again and cars will sell like they used to.

Rodge · 03-10-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Soon it will be all happy again and cars will sell like they used to.

I can't see that. The Eurpoean Union about to implode, Greece, France Spain, Italy all with massive systemic sovreign debt issues, China's growth slowing...anyway we're off track, the bottom line from a marketing perspective is at the very least it doesn't make sense to run with the 310 badge, heck they could rebadge it 325 easily and it would still be very conservativly stated in terms of what they really make at the crankshaft.
I was told they're working on it, heck why wouldn't they wack a bigger / thicker intercooler into that new massive front air dam ? Doesn't make commercial sense to me, (doing nothing).

All over the world people want greater efficiency from their cars including performance versions, surely this has been noticed by FPV ?

Stefan · 03-10-2011, 06:39 PM

FPV and HSV have one huge problem, they keep plastering the stupid kw figure all over the car so the bogans can maintain bragging rights.

No-one cares about the build quality, dynamics handling or real world performance, the number on the car just needs to get bigger at every model upgrade.

nstg8a · 03-10-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

heck they could rebadge it 325 easily

so you would be happy if they just did a badge upgrade then?

SS_01 · 03-10-2011, 06:54 PM

Ultimately, the HSV is the better all round package, and at least inside feels like a 60k + car not a sub 40k Cab. Not to mention falcons high seating position etc etc etc. I will be keen to see the all new replacement for the falcon for these reasons alone as much as i still love the Falcon products, they have a lot that needs to be fixed.

flappist · 03-10-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

I can't see that. The Eurpoean Union about to implode, Greece, France Spain, Italy all with massive systemic sovreign debt issues, China's growth slowing...anyway we're off track, the bottom line from a marketing perspective is at the very least it doesn't make sense to run with the 310 badge, heck they could rebadge it 325 easily and it would still be very conservativly stated in terms of what they really make at the crankshaft.
I was told they're working on it, heck why wouldn't they wack a bigger / thicker intercooler into that new massive front air dam ? Doesn't make commercial sense to me, (doing nothing).

All over the world people want greater efficiency from their cars including performance versions, surely this has been noticed by FPV ?

Do you think that this new larger intercooler may act differently in a collision to the old one?
If so it will have to go thorough the same engineering including crash testing.

This tune change, how will it go at 50 degrees in the desert or -7 degrees in the snow? Will it still comply with the ADRs? That has to be tested and is a rather expensive excercise.

And lastly, the doom and gloom sky is falling comment.......if the economy crashes then no one will be buying these cars so spending money making them better will be totally wasted won't it?

There are a number of people on here who are directly or indirectly involved with motorvehicle design or manufacture. If you read what they write then maybe it will make more sense to you.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 07:02 PM

Rodger, what new massive air dam are you talking about??

Smoke Pursuit · 03-10-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Rodger, what new massive air dam are you talking about??

Yes, those FG2 big mouths are 50% plastic, theres only intake holes still around the bottom on the G6E / XR6 FG2, its not like theres some gaping big hole in the front bar where the mesh is, look at the Territory for example, most of its fake filled in plastic.

Cooling wont be any better on FG2.

AMGC63 · 03-10-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yes, those FG2 big mouths are 50% plastic, theres only intake holes still around the bottom on the G6E / XR6 FG2, its not like theres some gaping big hole in the front bar where the mesh is, look at the Territory for example, most of its fake filled in plastic.

Cooling wont be any better on FG2.

I believe FG2 FPV will use the same current kit/bars.

gtfpv · 03-10-2011, 07:13 PM

ok . my take . any balls out debate over FPV GT V8 and f6 IN MKII guise is nothing but bagging our own product . people buy f6's a gt's for different reasons . the f6 will throw you back in the seat with a different feel than the GT . SURE some will buy the fastest one at the time . but that's not why people choose between the 2 . me for example .
ohhhhh perhaps i'm getting old , but it's amazing how many people start bagging cars pre release . i bet if one came out with 385kw

, someone would complain .

Smoke Pursuit · 03-10-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

I believe FG2 FPV will use the same current kit/bars.

Umm ehhh ahhh i dont know...

going by G6E I think it will have an LED park lamp assembly?? Projector headlights?

Foglights are so 2002!!

vztrt · 03-10-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

No-one cares about the build quality, dynamics handling or real world performance

This is what people start to shout about when they can't match the power performance of the opposition. Ohh yeah 'insert model' will hand my butt on a platter but my 'insert model' is a better package.

flappist · 03-10-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

This is what people start to shout about when they can't match the power performance of the opposition. Ohh yeah 'insert model' will hand my butt on a platter but my 'insert model' is a better package.

No it is what they shout about when they find themselves on a road that is longer than 400m and has a corner while bits of their expensive new car are falling off, cracking or the paint peeling off.

This happened on all three of my new FPVs......

**Dave R** · 03-10-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yes, those FG2 big mouths are 50% plastic, theres only intake holes still around the bottom on the G6E / XR6 FG2, its not like theres some gaping big hole in the front bar where the mesh is, look at the Territory for example, most of its fake filled in plastic.

Cooling wont be any better on FG2.

If anything it looks more restrictive to airflow. The front crash structure is still the same, 70% of the mouth is full of blanks to hide it.

http://cdn6.caradvice.com.au/wp-cont...n-fgii-g6e.jpg

thedutchman92 · 03-10-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

A big birdie wispered to me that the F6 will be making more than 310 KW's.
Have another look at that new massive lower air intake area on the FG2, guess what's going in there...and FPV are really making a huge effort to clear the old F6 310 Stock at a very special price, that and there's plenty of headroom to the 335 SC engine, you join the dots...

Now where can I place my hundred dollar bet on F6 325 ?

I'd guess Q2 2012. I'd still go for the SC 335 motor though, they're a real belter and sound fantastic.

Hot digety, so are you saying a bigger intercooler for the F6 and a top mount tintercooler for the 5.0L?

ivorya · 03-10-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you think that this new larger intercooler may act differently in a collision to the old one?
If so it will have to go thorough the same engineering including crash testing.

Not if they offer this thru their Prodrive Performance Aftermarket Division.

yift · 03-10-2011, 09:52 PM

well broadmeadows has delivered fpv some FG2's to kit up so thy are not far away.

FPV8U · 03-10-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yift

well broadmeadows has delivered fpv some FG2's to kit up so thy are not far away.

One would have thought this weekend would be a great place to show off a updated product.

**Elks** · 03-10-2011, 10:16 PM

I personally think the F6 now lacks some relevance.

Back in the boss 5.4 days there was a choice of big cube V8 noise etc vs I6T fast.

Now with S/C 5.0, you get both in the one package. Hence the drop in sales of the F6. It's still a great package but I wouldn't buy one over a 5.0.