Australian Family Cars: We have gone so far backwards since 2016...

[lra]

I thought I was the only one who considers current market cars crap.
$60K > $ 70K for a soot blowing, high riding 'family' ute for mostly shopping trips and a dream of towing a van to the great outdoors.
Bells, beeps and lights for incompetent, undecided drivers to replace cars that went, stopped and handled better for mostly competent drivers who learned how to drive the 'hard' way.
EVs which require the planning of Apollo 13 mission to go exploring for a pub lunch into the nearly outback, hoping that a charger will be there in working order, so you can get home again.
Eye searing fashion over function designs inside and out that would have been classed as an April Fools Day practical joke pre 1999.
Topped off by the gullibility of the consumer who has been told 'This is what we will sell you because it is what you really want'.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I was just having a think about how far backwards the standard Australian family car has fallen since 2016.

deep breath. aaand....


no, **** it. can't be bothered. whatever.

[au2000]

I considered recently selling my GS and my VS Ute and moving to a Alfa Giulia quattrofoligi or a corolla GR but in the end, they were the only 2 vehicles that maybe I’d enjoy but for the cost and what I’ll get, I’ll stick to my GS and VS ute

[whynot]

An interesting topic to contemplate. While I can see your point(s) and respect your viewpoint, I think the arguments have been a little oversimplified and there has been a little bit of cherry picking of the data.

Point 1 – reasonable cost. True, but look at the price of houses lately as a benchmark. Way overpriced. Manufacturers are not charities, they can and will charge what the market can bear.

Point 2 – power and torque. Ranger Raptor 3.0L V6 Twin Turbo EcoBoost engine produces up to 292kW at 5650rpm and 583Nm of torque at 3500rpm.

Point 3 – fuel economy. While my G6E had great fuel economy on the highway, around town it was a different story. If fuel economy is the be all and end all, Taxi drivers abandoned the Falcon before it was even out of production. See this old post from 2013 where a Taxi driver who swapped from an LPG Falcon to a Camry Hybrid was saving themselves $6K per year in fuel costs. https://www.fordforums.com.au/showpo...8&postcount=35

Point 4 – braking. One test result that I found for an XR8 recorded a stopping distance around 40 metres (give or take). (Acknowledging the effect of surface friction of test location), a difference source recorded the stopping distance of Model Y at 34.6 metres (best in the Car of The Year pool). If stopping distance is the primary concern the data is clear, buy a Model Y. A Ford Ranger XLT V6 had a recorded stopping distance of 41.1 metres (not too shabby for a vehicle of that weight), and not to far off the pace of an XR8. But tyre selection makes a big difference here. All terrains make a number of compromises for their sidewall strength and traction on unsealed roads, can easily have a braking distance into 50 metres. Braking distance is a user chooses problem.

Point 5 – rear suspension. Not sure what the problem is here. Falcon wagons - the epitome of AU load carrying - stayed with leaf springs to the bitter end. Ditto, the Falcon Ute. Leaf springs have definite advantages for load carrying and towing over the life of a vehicle. While some of the more sophisticated rear end suspensions have less compromises, they also come with considerable greater upfront and ongoing costs.

Point 6 – Steering. While they may have less feel, modern EPAS allow for safety features like lane control. Something that a pure hydraulic system can never do in a cost-effective manner. While some may dislike the feel of EPAS and question the value of lane control, what is often overlooked is how many collisions this technology has prevented. Front end suspension design is bounded by the requirements for wheel articulation for off road travel, travelling on corrugated surfaces, and the weight of the vehicle.

Point 7 - Interior comfort and convenience – these are primarily work vehicles. They sit out in the sun for extended periods and are subjected to abuse the traditional family car is not. Market wants hard plastic surfaces for these variants.

What has been overlooked is why people are choosing these types of vehicles. A Ford Ranger/Everest can go a lot more places than a Falcon ute/wagon/sedan. They certainly can tow a lot more (caravans have grow in size over the last decade) and do so more safely.

I also think one needs to be careful when raising the “practicality” argument. If we are all going to drive “practical cars” for a large family, then it is a Camry four cylinder.

For whatever reason, the large family sedan (in the format of a Falcon or Commodore) is dead. People have long since moved to SUV, be that AWD or 4WD, and are voting with their wallets.

[naddis01]

For those that own dual cabs, if a Falcon was reintroduced today, would you go back?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by naddis01

For those that own dual cabs, if a Falcon was reintroduced today, would you go back?

Definitely not, traded my XR ute for dual cab and have not regretted the decision, don't get me wrong I like falcon utes but the dual cab is better for my purpose of vehicle.
Cheers.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by naddis01

For those that own dual cabs, if a Falcon was reintroduced today, would you go back?

Nope, the “Falcon thing” is all about “Rose coloured glasses”, these new Rangers etc are good vehicles.

E8 had some quality issues but a good Barra engine

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Nope, the “Falcon thing” is all about “Rose coloured glasses”, these new Rangers etc are good vehicles.

E8 had some quality issues but a good Barra engine

Nostalgia...heroin for old people.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Nope, the “Falcon thing” is all about “Rose coloured glasses”, these new Rangers etc are good vehicles.



E8 had some quality issues but a good Barra engine

I'd buy one in a heartbeat now. I'd love an F6 manual ute. Sadly, I can't buy one new anymore.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by kypez

I'd buy one in a heartbeat now. I'd love an F6 manual ute. Sadly, I can't buy one new anymore.

I feel you. Local manufacturing shut when I was 22, too early in my life to afford a new car. The XR6T manual ute I wanted to drive off the lot wasn’t still being made by the time I could afford a new car. Now what ute can you buy for the same price, a Ranger XL 4x4? Feel the excitement!

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I feel you. Local manufacturing shut when I was 22, too early in my life to afford a new car. The XR6T manual ute I wanted to drive off the lot wasn’t still being made by the time I could afford a new car. Now what ute can you buy for the same price, a Ranger XL 4x4? Feel the excitement!

I can relate to this comment. I remember being 27, yet to buy a new car and looking at a blueprint AUIII XR8 on runout and wanting it badly (the red forte wagon appealed too!). Had to wait until 32 to buy 1st new car, in cash. Generally family came first and having kids young, working hard and saving pennies and putting them to work meant to delay in my situation.

Many others can buy a new car pretty much soon after 18 either on debt or if they are lucky, in cash. Everyone will approach it differently.

Keep going for your goal ToryMikey - start watching extra close now to see if it falls into your range faster, given the effect of the recent interest rate rises.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

I'd buy one in a heartbeat now. I'd love an F6 manual ute. Sadly, I can't buy one new anymore.

There's nothing stopping Ford Australia from designing something similar, surely they could do a single cab Ranger with the Raptor setup minus the hectic suspension setup with a manual box. A 'street' version of the Raptor would nicely round off the Ranger offering - parts bin special.

Kind of like the Gen 1 SVT F150 Lightning or 454SS C/K 1500 (Silverado) of the 1990s.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's nothing stopping Ford Australia from designing something similar, surely they could do a single cab Ranger with the Raptor setup minus the hectic suspension setup with a manual box. A 'street' version of the Raptor would nicely round off the Ranger offering.

Kind of like the Gen 1 SVT F150 Lightning or 454SS C/K 1500 (Silverado) of the 1990s.

You’re right, not that it would be the same as a Falcon, but it would have car enthusiast appeal at least. Note I say *car* enthusiast, not off roading enthusiast.

The peepee extension ride height puts me off the things, and it’s ridiculous that you can only buy the current Ranger with peepee extension ride height. Even Toyota offers a reasonable ride height with the Hoylux base model.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's nothing stopping Ford Australia from designing something similar, surely they could do a single cab Ranger with the Raptor setup minus the hectic suspension setup with a manual box. A 'street' version of the Raptor would nicely round off the Ranger offering.



Kind of like the Gen 1 SVT F150 Lightning or 454SS C/K 1500 (Silverado) of the 1990s.

Sadly, the Raptor is the closest thing now but at a huge price premium over a F6! And I don't understand what people like in the engine note of the Raptor... I hate it. But again, the only option. The F6 sounded, to my ears, much nicer.

A manual Raptor would be awesome in the world we live in now

[vixf6]

Originally Posted by naddis01

For those that own dual cabs, if a Falcon was reintroduced today, would you go back?

Yes but only if fix-
Diff bushes
A/C Mixer shaft
ICC Screen, even then

The zf’s in our G6E and terry are just so nice its not funny, prefer them to the Ute 10 sp by a fair margin

[Jastel]

Re Whynots post - Point 3 Fuel IS the main expense for Taxis...but not the only one.

These days you would have to get a Toyota Camry Hybrid for a Taxi...if you can wait long enough for the dealer to get one. Wait times are improving and there is some coming through from Police and Fleets now via Pickles/Manheim but at near new prices.

The reason you are seeing the weird Taxis like Ravs and T Cross is less waiting time for vehicles, but I havent seen any BYD's or ultra cheap hybrids yet...but someone will do it, at least until the first accident.

Modern cars get more complicated, and harder to fix for the backyarder like me, parts are scarce, cost a bomb and take ages to get here...ALL bad for Taxis.

Fully electric cars like Teslas are NOT suitable for Taxis, as apart from being stupidly expensive, you would need 2 of them, one for Day shift, then another to use at night while the day car recharges...assuming you use normal outlets, you also need a shed to park it in while its charging.

I have enough parts to assemble another Falcon in my shed so that is why I have persisted so long.

My 2014 Falcon cost me about $5000 as a repairable write off, after fixing up and taxifying say $8000, a new Camry cost $40000 so I have $32000 of savings already.
Thats a fair bit petrol...or even more LPG.

If I stay in the business I have to go Camry Hybrid but I wont be selling my personal Falcons either.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Re Whynots post - Point 3 Fuel IS the main expense for Taxis...but not the only one.

These days you would have to get a Toyota Camry Hybrid for a Taxi...if you can wait long enough for the dealer to get one. Wait times are improving and there is some coming through from Police and Fleets now via Pickles/Manheim but at near new prices.

The reason you are seeing the weird Taxis like Ravs and T Cross is less waiting time for vehicles, but I havent seen any BYD's or ultra cheap hybrids yet...but someone will do it, at least until the first accident.

Modern cars get more complicated, and harder to fix for the backyarder like me, parts are scarce, cost a bomb and take ages to get here...ALL bad for Taxis.

Fully electric cars like Teslas are NOT suitable for Taxis, as apart from being stupidly expensive, you would need 2 of them, one for Day shift, then another to use at night while the day car recharges...assuming you use normal outlets, you also need a shed to park it in while its charging.

I have enough parts to assemble another Falcon in my shed so that is why I have persisted so long.

My 2014 Falcon cost me about $5000 as a repairable write off, after fixing up and taxifying say $8000, a new Camry cost $40000 so I have $32000 of savings already.
Thats a fair bit petrol...or even more LPG.

If I stay in the business I have to go Camry Hybrid but I wont be selling my personal Falcons either.

Agreed. Cabs need to be simply and made for their intended purpose, not an adaption.
At least Ford and Holden had proper taxi packs back then, why couldn't we build cars to spec like that now.
The London cab or Checkers cabs for instance even Tuk Tuk's in Asia to some extent.
Your business model if using EV's sounds like the half payload EV truck posted in the truck thread, you need 2 of them the cover the same load needed as one ICE vehicle.
Just doesn't make any sense business wise.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Agreed. Cabs need to be simply and made for their intended purpose, not an adaption.
At least Ford and Holden had proper taxi packs back then, why couldn't we build cars to spec like that now.
The London cab or Checkers cabs for instance even Tuk Tuk's in Asia to some extent.
Your business model if using EV's sounds like the half payload EV truck posted in the truck thread, you need 2 of them the cover the same load needed as one ICE vehicle.
Just doesn't make any sense business wise.

I think the AU was the last dedicated Falcon taxi pack, vinyl seats, imagine if you specced with the column shift bench seat setup

Maybe put that business case in with my hypothetical coupe utility/panelvan and spring the taxi off the van with extra doors/rear seats. Raised roof will help with cargo & also backpackers.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Fully electric cars like Teslas are NOT suitable for Taxis, as apart from being stupidly expensive, you would need 2 of them, one for Day shift, then another to use at night while the day car recharges...assuming you use normal outlets, you also need a shed to park it in while its charging.
.

What?! They take about 40 minutes to an hour to fully charge up at a Rapid Charger. Why would a person running a taxi use a standard GPO?

And there are plenty of EV taxis out there now. Even HC's running 24/7.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! They take about 40 minutes to an hour to fully charge up at a Rapid Charger. Why would a person running a taxi use a standard GPO?

And there are plenty of EV taxis out there now. Even HC's running 24/7.

My take on what that means is there's a lot more infrastructure needed as a small business owner to convert over to E and most would rather keep running their business than start getting involved with extra govco interference to do it.

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! They take about 40 minutes to an hour to fully charge up at a Rapid Charger. Why would a person running a taxi use a standard GPO?.

Regular rapid charging shortens battery life. Replacement batteries are so expensive the car is esentially a throwaway.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by anobserver

Regular rapid charging shortens battery life. Replacement batteries are so expensive the car is esentially a throwaway.

Sigh. Not true. Go check out the Alternative Power thread on EVs.

[fordomatic]

Went in mates new Ranger today, I need new kidneys. We drove over lots of rough gravel roads and rough bitumen and the ride is still terrible. It is much better than the old one, but it's still horribly clunky and horrible to ride in. No way I would pay 70k for one, what a joke.

Getting back into my 10k SYII Territory was night and day with ride quality.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Went in mates new Ranger today, I need new kidneys. We drove over lots of rough gravel roads and rough bitumen and the ride is still terrible. It is much better than the old one, but it's still horribly clunky and horrible to ride in. No way I would pay 70k for one, what a joke.

Getting back into my 10k SYII Territory was night and day with ride quality.

Also how slow they are for your $70K too

Like if you don't need a ute you're better off with an SUV compared to a Thailand Special.

I don't like SUVs but I'll concede that as a family car its a better option than the mighty Thailand Special, any day of the week.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Went in mates new Ranger today, I need new kidneys. We drove over lots of rough gravel roads and rough bitumen and the ride is still terrible. It is much better than the old one, but it's still horribly clunky and horrible to ride in. No way I would pay 70k for one, what a joke.

Getting back into my 10k SYII Territory was night and day with ride quality.

Made the mistake of drawing the back seat of a triton when I did some conservation animal trapping once, over similar rocky/gravel tracks. What a horror ordeal that was.

And yep the SY is light years ahead despite being nearly 17 years old.

Edit: but isn't the Ranger class-leading in that regard?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Edit: but isn't the Ranger class-leading in that regard?

In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kypez

In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king

very good!

'man with d*** on head cannot see for nuts'

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

very good!

'man with d*** on head cannot see for nuts'

Reminds me of the woman with chin nuts

[lra]

After reading these comments about current utes, it seems that a double cab ute with a lower ride height, V8, 6 speed manual or auto, disc brakes all round, a payload of about 700kg, room for a standard pallet in the tray, and possibly 3 passengers squeezed into the rear seat would be welcome.
Do I have a deal for yoouuu ! !

A Holden Crewman ! Ooops, forgot, they are nearly 20 years old.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by lra

After reading these comments about current utes, it seems that a double cab ute with a lower ride height, V8, 6 speed manual or auto, disc brakes all round, a payload of about 700kg, room for a standard pallet in the tray, and possibly 3 passengers squeezed into the rear seat would be welcome.
Do I have a deal for yoouuu ! !

A Holden Crewman ! Ooops, forgot, they are nearly 20 years old.

Bro had an SS Crewman new, the leaking from the upper window seals in heavy rain was even more than the standard VY, and that's saying something. Cool car tho.