Covid 19 -

[T3rminator]

If after 2 hours of briefing, the only thing that people can pick out is, "no end date" to step 5....then I think he has done pretty well. How outrageous that he can't tell when the virus will be beaten.

Meanwhile, some interesting studies on the relationship between aggressiveness of health response vs economic recovery. Granted some smaller businesses and sectors will be devastated, but the overall picture may not be as bleak as some make it out to be. Time will tell.

The data speak: Stronger pandemic response yields better economic recovery
https://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-h...-recovery-0401

Which countries have protected both health and the economy in the pandemic?
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy

Mates in the UK have been escaping and flying for weekend holidays. France and Spain are seeing a rise again, will be interesting to see their response 2nd time around.

Let's not forget that in China the curfew was so strict that apartment building doors were welded shut and lifts switched off. They were literally locked inside and left to either die in their homes from the virus or pull through. Whoever survived, survived.

We're being treated a heck of a lot better but some people will never be happy

[Citroënbender]

I’ll take Sweden, please.

[Sprintey]

I think Russ pointed out Sweden had 71x mortality to here, so no thanks.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I think Russ pointed out Sweden had 71x mortality to here, so no thanks.

They've had single digit death rates since mostly since middle of July, except for an incident where it got into aged care homes (sound familiar?)

They had a few days of 0 deaths in there - everyone keeps referring to the first few months in Europe - look at their COVID-19 deaths from middle of June to current day.

Also they didn't have the luxury of being an island in the middle of the *** end of the planet.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sweden or Uruguay put paid to your propaganda

Uruguay had the luxury of HCQ where they pop this medication like candy.

[Tickford.]

How dumb are these morons in VIC that chose to protest on week 5 of a 6 week STAGE 4 lockdown?? These COVIDiots think their feelings are more important than the lives of others.

Now Melbourne has to wait a couple of weeks to see if the case numbers rise as a result of these idiotic attention seekers trying to get their face on TV. They probably also won't believe in getting tested so we'll probably never know.

On one hand I hope the numbers don't rise as a result. On the other hand I hope they all do get COVID and die.

[arronm]

All you ****s just stay out of WA

[nstg8a]

What if there’s no vaccine?

No economy can survive ongoing lockdowns, at some point we have to learn to live with the threat of the wuflu amongst us.
Simple measures each individual can take massively reduce the risk of getting it in the first place, and well, we’ve all seen the survivability numbers.

It’s time we accepted responsibility for our own health and stopped expecting the govt to act like our parents and tell us what to do, we aren’t stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[T3rminator]

Sweden will be a very interesting case study in the future. They took a gamble, and bet against the house. If vaccine comes earlier than expected or the virus potency diminishes over time, like a lot of virus do, then they have taken a very bad gamble.

If we don't get a vaccine for another 18+ months then they may have taken a good gamble. Only time will tell.

Their economy isn't exactly booming.

I think we've become somewhat desensitised to death rates given what we've seen in other parts of the world.

[Polyal]

Next few weeks will be interesting in VIC, people at home frustrated = issues.

For the government to essentially say we are not looking at opening until we have 14 days of 0 is crazy IMO. We need to start planning as if there is no vaccine, and learn to live with it. Can not keep going in and out of lock down on such a large scale.

The recorded cases may be the only way to put some science on this, but, there must be so much thats not identified and those areas are going about their business. So once we notice that people are infected its too late.

IMO the next phase is trying to get ahead, like always we are so reactive, I cant see states moving forward until we get some kind of random or targeted testing ahead of hot spots. Even if it finds nothing atleast you have an idea?

[FPV8U]

The Andrews government stance would make complete sense if it were using potential therapies in HCQ and Ivermectin treatments to try and eliminate the virus, have the state health officials coming out asking people to exercise daily, get plenty of time in the sun and eat healthy food.

Instead we get nothing, no state government backed treatment trials in the aged care homes that have been hit or in others to prevent the same from happening, no nutritional advice in relation to supplements, restricted hours outside in daylight which makes no sense, there is no scientific benefit and are several studies out on the benefits of vitamin D.

I’m not going to pretend he isn’t in a difficult position, but shutting everything and hiding under the bed for another six, twelve or eightteen months until a potential vaccine arrives then turning around to the public and saying take it without question or you never get to return to normal isn’t anything like leadership.

[tweeked]

The biggest problem is will any vaccine work? Covid-19 attacks the upper respiratory surface, it is not effectively "inside' the body. That is a big reason why no one has ever developed a vaccine for any coronavirus (there are many of them, the common cold if from the same family). There is a huge chance that there will be no effective vaccine.

We need to start living with it, and work out how to do so as safely as possible, not batten down the hatches waiting for a unicorn vaccine to arrive.

Originally Posted by tweeked

We need to start living with it, and work out how to do so as safely as possible, not batten down the hatches waiting for a unicorn vaccine to arrive.

So who do we throw under the bus for that to happen? I mean, we know that people are going to get sick and die until we find that sweet spot on how to live with it as safely as possible... so who's up first? Our elderly parents/neighours/friends? They've already lived a full life and shouldn't be so selfish, having the country shut down just to protect them and their few years they had left anyway, jeez. Or how about cancer patients? I mean, they are immunocompromised and god has clearly already marked them for termination, right?

Who do you think is our best choice to take one for the team with getting infected and risking death so that we can get our economy started up again?

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by leesa

So who do we throw under the bus for that to happen? I mean, we know that people are going to get sick and die until we find that sweet spot on how to live with it as safely as possible... so who's up first? Our elderly parents/neighours/friends? They've already lived a full life and shouldn't be so selfish, having the country shut down just to protect them and their few years they had left anyway, jeez. Or how about cancer patients? I mean, they are immunocompromised and god has clearly already marked them for termination, right?

Who do you think is our best choice to take one for the team with getting infected and risking death so that we can get our economy started up again?

A little over dramatic are you not? Did I say roll out the weak like trying to make sure all the kids get chicken pox? I said to do it as safely as possible, but you probably didn't read that far.

Why do we allow cars? Who do we allow to be thrown under the bus to allow the rest of us to drive? Over a thousand people are sacrificed every year allowing the rest of us to live a life that we all enjoy. We could save all those live by banning cars. Plus then add the lives "saved" by everyone exercising more. While in your world we could also ban public transport, I mean the amount of people catching and succumbing communicable diseases by being jammed together on communal transport is just not worth contemplating.

Keeping everything locked down forever is not then answer and waiting for a vaccine is not either. I bet if the health community were the ones losing their jobs their opinion on shutting everything down would be different. Our way of life is threatened by this. We have fought wars to protect our way of life. We did not want to be overtaken by a tyrannical despot 80 years ago who wanted to change the way we all lived. This is just a different war against a different opponent. You want to surrender.

We need smart government that minimises risks. We need an economy running top support all of this. The money does not grow on trees, it cannot go on for years. The people you are looking to protect are the ones who will suffer most if this continues much longer. Smart measures, protect the weak, but don't lock everyone down. That way we can afford to protect the weak.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by tweeked

The people you are looking to protect are the ones who will suffer most if this continues much longer. Smart measures, protect the weak, but don't lock everyone down. That way we can afford to protect the weak.

I struggle to imagine how hard it is now, for people previously on the social margin in Victoria. I know elderly here without close family, who are suffering due to the strictures which effectively removed their routines and social interactions. They may be “safe” but their lives have lost measurable value and purpose.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I struggle to imagine how hard it is now, for people previously on the social margin in Victoria. I know elderly here without close family, who are suffering due to the strictures which effectively removed their routines and social interactions. They may be “safe” but their lives have lost measurable value and purpose.

My mother is 84, in a nursing home with advanced dementia. The only thing she can remember is her children. Yet to protect her we are not allowed to see her, so she spends most of her time in her room by herself.

I know what she wants, but our government is "protecting" her so she can last as long as possible locked in her room.

Originally Posted by tweeked

A little over dramatic are you not? Did I say roll out the weak like trying to make sure all the kids get chicken pox? I said to do it as safely as possible, but you probably didn't read that far.

Perhaps "as safely as possible" means something differently to you, but "as possible" does imply that there will be some loss of life while we test the waters to find that sweet spot between safe and productive.

Sounds like your acceptable number of casualties is a lot higher than mine but so far the government seems to agree with my version instead of your version.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by leesa

So who do we throw under the bus for that to happen? I mean, we know that people are going to get sick and die until we find that sweet spot on how to live with it as safely as possible... so who's up first? Our elderly parents/neighours/friends? They've already lived a full life and shouldn't be so selfish, having the country shut down just to protect them and their few years they had left anyway, jeez. Or how about cancer patients? I mean, they are immunocompromised and god has clearly already marked them for termination, right?

Who do you think is our best choice to take one for the team with getting infected and risking death so that we can get our economy started up again?

Conversely, what do you do if a vaccine is 12 months away?

[russellw]

71 new cases for Australia and 5 deaths sees the CMR rise to 2.866% while active drop to 3,063. NSW recorded 10 cases; Queensland 2, WA 1 with the balance in Victoria.

5 new cases and zero deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.354% and active cases rise to 116.

The UK had 2,998 new cases yesterday and as we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines we are going to ignore those figures.

Just over 40k new cases in the USA yesterday and 707 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.999% and active cases drop to 39.3% with the raw numbers rising again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 87M, India 48M and Portugal 2M tests;
Africa passes 30k deaths;

Paraguay (1,217), Morocco (2,234) and India (91,723) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Worth commenting on, is the gap between Australia and New Zealand. Prior to this 2nd wave, Australia was either ahead or line-ball with New Zealand for most statistics but the gap is now an ever increasing one.

CMR, which AU led, is now 1.35% for NZ and 2.86% for Australia;
Cases per 100k adults, which used to be fairly close, is now 37 for NZ and 180 for AU;
Mortalities per 100k adults which was also fairly even is now 0.65 for NZ and 4.2 for Australia.

From a global perspective, they are both good results, particularly with the reasonably high volumes of testing in both countries.

[Bossxr8]

The irony of the state that locked down the hardest from the get go, and is now the state with the worst situation is not lost on Dan Andrews is it?

BuT DaN AnDrEwS iS DoInG a GoOd JoB.

He better have his riot busting squad in full preparation because the weekend protest will be just the start. People are getting ****ed off big time.

And before one of the sheep chime in, i'm not for protests in large groups. Just stating my opinion on what is going to happen.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The irony of the state that locked down the hardest from the get go, and is now the state with the worst situation is not lost on Dan Andrews is it?

BuT DaN AnDrEwS iS DoInG a GoOd JoB.

He better have his riot busting squad in full preparation because the weekend protest will be just the start. People are getting ****ed off big time.

And before one of the sheep chime in, i'm not for protests in large groups. Just stating my opinion on what is going to happen.

That's because the medical team they're getting advice from are all from the 'elimination' camp - massively stacked panel it's just like Q&A except they don't have the solitary person from the other camp to all crucify.

Remember when it was just about 'flattening the curve'?

Now it's keep 6 million people under house arrest indefinitely - how fair is that on our arts/culture and hospitality industry? Or the massive amount of youth who get their first start in these industries?

Be careful which opinions you post though or you'll end up on the AFF moderation ****list because here on AFF we don't like opinions that are against the bull**** we're being fed and we need to protect the chicken littles from differing points of view

[Charliewool]

The next few days are going to be “interesting” in Vic?
Talking to family and friends back “home” and listening to 3aw just now....
LOTS of VERY frustrated and unhappy campers!
Stay safe all.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The next few days are going to be “interesting” in Vic?
Talking to family and friends back “home” and listening to 3aw just now....
LOTS of VERY frustrated and unhappy campers!
Stay safe all.....

I don't think people will take to the streets but there's visible frustration going on.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The next few days are going to be “interesting” in Vic?
Talking to family and friends back “home” and listening to 3aw just now....
LOTS of VERY frustrated and unhappy campers!
Stay safe all.....

Frustration is high, but it has been for months!

I see Neil Mitchell from 3aw did an opinion piece critiquing the Premiers handling of the pandemic.

They started a pole yesterday, 'Was it the right decision to extend the Melbourne lockdown by a further two weeks?'

So far over 70% agree with the extended lock down, from about 140 000 votes.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...5-9198ba112573

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Frustration is high, but it has been for months!

I see Neil Mitchell from 3aw did an opinion piece critiquing the Premiers handling of the pandemic.

They started a pole yesterday, 'Was it the right decision to extend the Melbourne lockdown by a further two weeks?'

So far over 70% agree with the extended lock down, from about 140 000 votes.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...5-9198ba112573

I think Daniel Andrews grinned from ear to ear when he saw the wording of that question.

I am amazed that 30% said no to it. I don't think anyone expected that the lockdown would be "lifted". People are not angry that there is still some form of lockdown ongoing - they are angry about the conditions of the lockdown.

If the question was "should we be safely opening up quicker than what the Government is proposing" it think you would see a very different result.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Frustration is high, but it has been for months!

I see Neil Mitchell from 3aw did an opinion piece critiquing the Premiers handling of the pandemic.

They started a pole yesterday, 'Was it the right decision to extend the Melbourne lockdown by a further two weeks?'

So far over 70% agree with the extended lock down, from about 140 000 votes.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...5-9198ba112573

Outrage porn is what our media is great at. Just read the headlines. Not one positive piece of news ever comes out. Whenever we have a low case number they focus on deaths and lock downs. There has now been two sets of "surveys" done that has attracted over 100,000 respondents, one from nine news / the age and one from herald sun, both love an Andrews bashing.....and the results of both resoundingly supports the current strategy.

When people start making threats against MPs' families and their children, you know something isn't right. Some of the stuff said against Fiona Patten and Samantha Ratnam is just vile. Are these people really angry at the restrictions, or is there a deeper problem and this is just an excuse?

It also made me think today about how asylum seekers mentally cope with being locked up indefinitely.......

[nstg8a]

Imagine how different things could be if instead of all these resources being poured into locking down a whole damned state and country they were put into protecting the most vulnerable, educating and re-educating people on the simple measures to take to reduce the spread.
Beefing up the health system to be able to handle any large impact.
But people still being able to work, to see loved ones, to move freely except for near the aforementioned vulnerable.

There is much attention paid to the potential seriousness of this virus, yet real life figures around the globe do not support the extreme measure being taken.

[tweeked]

“Studies show” when politicians and overqualified “book smart” people get together not much clever stuff results.

[.:4:.]

So, granted, im in nsw and its deffinately not as strict as vic. But what i fail to understand with the vic situiation, is that you only hear about the lets say 5% of people who do not do the recommended, yet probably the majority do. So in my head, community transmission should technically be managed it if theres no community?
So dunno if its across the board, but my grandparents are really old, both in their mid 90s. Theyre in a lovely private nursing home. They cannot have visitors. Reason being policy says, 14 days isolation if you leave the premesis. And every 2 weeks my olds have hospital checkups. So from all accounts, thats really done a number on my grandparents. My grandma is pretty frail, but apreciates things like the flowers in the communal garden. Grandpa though, pre covid, he still held his drivers licence, wouldnt drive far and only in daylight out of peak times, he had his prius. Everyday would go for a walk. Now, being so couped up he needs assistance to walk. Yes, they are what i would consider the most vulnerable, but the rapid decline is just really sad.