Covid 19 -

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by leesa

For the consumers sure they'll do that. The sellers aren't keen on the idea as overseas buyers pay more for the meat than australians can/will.

Personally I think we should aim to make australia as much of a closed system as we can. we should be bringing back our manufacturing industries, our farmers and anything else that can be produced, grown or serviced by australians.

Of course that means the price of housing will have to come down as labor costs are currently high on account of housing costs are high, everyone just wants to buy a house to start a family. To date, if people can't buy a house on a wage then the job finds itself going offshore to countries with cheaper labour costs because they either have cheaper housing costs or because other countries are prepared to exploit their citizens.

So the "haves" are not likely to let any of that happen because it'll affect their personal profit or their retirement plan of exploiting the average aussie for inflated rents. Sad but true. So I foresee the meat exporters doing everything they can to fire up exports with China/etc again as they don't care about your lobbying or what you believe in.

The almighty dollar is worth more than the integrity and self-sufficiency of our country.

edit: reminds me of that article I saw a few months back from a seafood export who was practically begging australians to buy up their stock for "a chance" to try premium-grade seafood while they can, because the export problems aren't going to last forever.
Yeah okay, we're not good enough to sell to on a general basis but they want us to help bail them out when the overseas buyer has closed their doors.

Agree with most, if this time isnt used to give a decent reset to our systems moving forward then it will never happen.

But we need to get through it first.

Dont worry I am the first to roll my eyes when I hear older generations complain about crayfish prices and that all the good stuff goes OS.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Agree with most, if this time isnt used to give a decent reset to our systems moving forward then it will never happen.

Aussies made their choices years ago; what makes you think they will make different choices this time. Things will go back to how they were because lots of people want it that way.
There was a time when locally made and imported things (cars,tv's) were on the showroom floor side by side. We all made our choices back then.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Aussies made their choices years ago; what makes you think they will make different choices this time. Things will go back to how they were because lots of people want it that way.
There was a time when locally made and imported things (cars,tv's) were on the showroom floor side by side. We all made our choices back then.

Not saying everything will revert, obviously thats nigh impossible, but it will certainly force a rethink on distribution/supply channels, job priorities etc

We are terrible at looking after the needy in good times, CV has exposed the western systems for the capitalist greed machine it is. Australia needed a good shake up and the pollies wont do it themselves.

[Franco Cozzo]

Timely discussion - currently fighting tooth and nail to bring a product we can manufacture here back in house from overseas.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not saying everything will revert, obviously thats nigh impossible, but it will certainly force a rethink on distribution/supply channels, job priorities etc

We are terrible at looking after the needy in good times, CV has exposed the western systems for the capitalist greed machine it is. Australia needed a good shake up and the pollies wont do it themselves.

No matter what CV has done nothing beats the almighty what you pay $$$$$ in this day and age.
People can harp on all they like what the older gen go on about but what makes you think the younger gen are willing to pay more in the future once the world gets back to normal per say infections contained let alone a vaccine.
The re think will be re sourcing, less staff improve online but why would you decrease your RRP
Trust me it won't change what you and leesa post but that the graph line in all commodities etc will just rise and rise to recover loss's.
Thats life

Originally Posted by FTE217

No matter what CV has done nothing beats the almighty what you pay $$$$$ in this day and age.
People can harp on all they like what the older gen go on about but what makes you think the younger gen are willing to pay more in the future once the world gets back to normal per say infections contained let alone a vaccine.
The re think will be re sourcing, less staff improve online but why would you decrease your RRP
Trust me it won't change what you and leesa post but that the graph line in all commodities etc will just rise and rise to recover loss's.
Thats life

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

[Sprintey]

Decision and resolve to make it here is the requirement. If you look at the history of BMW, they were in financial dire straits by the late 1950s; a conglomeration of other industrial interests decided they were not going to fail, and they were supplied with the funds to make excellent new product which began to be delivered to market in the early 1970s... The rest is history.

Eg VW were rescued by a British Army officer, Japanese Zaibatsu

[auxr]

Originally Posted by leesa

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

I'm not biting - someone else can - stay safe.

Originally Posted by auxr

I'm not biting - someone else can - stay safe.

lol go on. ;)
All I'm saying is that covid should be a massive warning that something needs to change. Except it won't... because society is ****ed and we're greedy. We clearly can't self-regulate so it's going to be done for us.

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by leesa

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

Please tell me that you're female and single.

This is exactly my thoughts, exactly. Except the people who should survive include me and other like-minded people. I have these same thoughts every day and I'm petrified at what the ultimate outcome of them will be. the fear of society as it is today coming crumbling down.

I know that this all feels un-natural, that billions of people everyday getting up and going to work just to make money to build a house made from natural resources that we are quickly running out of is wrong. They won't stop for nothing. We shouldn't be taking so much from the planet.

I blame the bankers, they keep on reducing the value of the dollar and forcing everyone to continue to work. You shouldn't have to work for 40 hours or more a week just to keep alive let alone stay indoors inside of a house, or continue to pay land rates on land that you've bought, or be forced to continue to pay for utilities when you're already off the grid.

I know that when it does collapse those people are going to be very angry, at someone, and they'll take it out on anyone who is near them.

Human beings have been living inside of caves for thousands of years and in this tiny little blip in history we're currently being forced into slavery just to keep breathing and eating and staying dry. That is wrong.

Its not that difficult to build a house, I did it when I was 14 years old, sure it looks like a rudimentary treehouse and it leaks and has drafts but at least I can keep working on it and improve it myself without having to pay someone else to do it. At least it has no taxes, no utility bills, no taxmen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKPUx_zKMAI

And the food is then all around me. And the neighbours are like minded individuals living in tribal communities. No need for a car or a job 50km away. Your job is keeping your family alive, living off the land, or entertaining them.

Oh yeah and a toothbrush shouldn't cost $5, I don't care what the excuse is. That is a sure fire sign that we've screwed things up so badly that not even a pauper can brush his teeth.

But I still have some hope. Taken from Religion mostly. Its the only thing keeping me alive because at least I get to talk to the same people who know that I do good things and they praise me for that. It is good.

Society is just... stuffed. Time to load up the

Originally Posted by gooseneck

This is exactly my thoughts, exactly. Except the people who should survive include me and other like-minded people. I have these same thoughts every day and I'm petrified at what the ultimate outcome of them will be. the fear of society as it is today coming crumbling down.

At least it has no taxes, no utility bills, no taxmen.

Your job is keeping your family alive, living off the land, or entertaining them.

Your ideals are perhaps a little bit more extreme than mine. There are some good things to come from modern society compared to 200 years ago, particularly with modern medicine and better sanitation so we don't die awful deaths from various diseases. Who wants to die from a treatable infection? probably noone.

It's just that I think we should have a focus on sustainability and putting it ahead of progress on the list of priorities. Keeping our numbers at sustainable levels, not harvesting natural resources beyond their regenerative capacity and just making sure that the world is always in a similar state instead of a decline so that next generations can live in the same world.

Taxes and levies are still needed so as to pay for communal facilities like water treatment, sewerage, rubbish and recycling facilities. What are you going to do about all those things truly off the grid?

All of that is an unreasonable expectation though because most of us just consume beyond our needs, hoard whatever resources we can and are generally of the belief that getting ahead at any cost is the thing to aim for in life. So many people seem to think that "constant gradual growth" is the gold standard but really how many things can constantly grow without some sort of long-term consequence? Is that really an achievable goal? Or are we just okay with it provided a few generations get to benefit from it while the ones further down the line have to pay for it? Where's the long-term planning in that?

Covid should make people realise that our country's self-sufficiency is important. We've become so dependent on other countries just to stay alive and look at what happens when those supply chains are interrupted? This time it's a virus but maybe next time it will be something else, war? who knows? What has globalisation really done for us and is it really worth it?

Living within our means should be important, being able to produce food without the farmers having to beg for an extra 10c should be important. Aren't we all interdependent? We should care about the other guy as much as ourself but we just... don't.

edited to add: oh and I definitely don't want my life to boil down to just keeping a family alive and entertained!

[cheap]

Originally Posted by leesa

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

Oh Leesa, I hear you, if only people would stop worrying about C19 and restart maximum efforts on Climate Change!!!!! Gosh I miss Gretta, she's been pushed out of the news, it isn't fair.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Aussies made their choices years ago; what makes you think they will make different choices this time. Things will go back to how they were because lots of people want it that way.
There was a time when locally made and imported things (cars,tv's) were on the showroom floor side by side. We all made our choices back then.

Don't forget Australia is very multicultural so while some see buying off shore products as being unpatriotic, others do it to support their homeland...

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by prydey

Don't forget Australia is very multicultural so while some see buying off shore products as being unpatriotic, others do it to support their homeland...

What does Scotland sell here?

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

What does Scotland sell here?

Biscuits

[roddy1960]

How do our Victorian forum members see the overall handling of the pandemic in your State , especially with Daniel Andrews and his team in mind given what's happening at the minute .

It's critically important for the whole country (obviously) that this is handled really well for all sorts of reasons but on the economic front ABC radio reported yesterday that about 25% of our national economy involves our second most populous State .

If that is actually correct , the sooner Victoria's situation improves again the better for us all .

One thing is for sure . How Victoria handles this second wave will be watched and learned from nation wide because an outbreak could happen anywhere in our country . We're a long way from being Covid safe yet that's for certain .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

How do our Victorian forum members see the overall handling of the pandemic in your State , especially with Daniel Andrews and his team in mind given what's happening at the minute .

It's critically important for the whole country (obviously) that this is handled really well for all sorts of reasons but on the economic front ABC radio reported yesterday that about 25% of our national economy involves our second most populous State .

If that is actually correct , the sooner Victoria's situation improves again the better for us all .

One thing is for sure . How Victoria handles this second wave will be watched and learned from nation wide because an outbreak could happen anywhere in our country . We're a long way from being Covid safe yet that's for certain .

I'm a little miffed at the way they've subverted democracy by putting off parliament - GAGF, figure it out like everyone else working from home, or quarantine yourselves and have your little isolation bubble like the AFL.

Went way too hard too early with Victoria Police and lost the confidence of the community.

After Victoria Police went on their epic revenue raising mission fining children on driving lesson with mum, man in car wash at 1AM on a weekday, 3 guys in a car watching a movie, they did nothing about BLM protests.

Would have liked a little more personal responsibility on the vulnerable to isolate themselves rather than immensely damage the economy with their approach they've taken.

I'd have preferred aged care facilities to have had a swift kick up the *** for allowing what they have through their malpractice.

Questionable decisions on outsourcing to security companies who are flat out looking after the shopping centers let alone managing quarantine in a pandemic.

Otherwise its a once in a lifetime event - aside from a few small things I've listed above, I think they're doing an alright job with the circumstances and the cards they've been dealt making a couple of mistakes along the way but it comes from a good, well meaning position rather than ulterior motives.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

How do our Victorian forum members see the overall handling of the pandemic in your State , especially with Daniel Andrews and his team in mind given what's happening at the minute .

It's critically important for the whole country (obviously) that this is handled really well for all sorts of reasons but on the economic front ABC radio reported yesterday that about 25% of our national economy involves our second most populous State .

If that is actually correct , the sooner Victoria's situation improves again the better for us all .

One thing is for sure . How Victoria handles this second wave will be watched and learned from nation wide because an outbreak could happen anywhere in our country . We're a long way from being Covid safe yet that's for certain .

Initial response was good - nobody knew just how the virus would behave, and so the national lockdown was successful. Quarantine was where the problems start, mismanaged in such a way as to create a vector of community transmission. It's arguable there was a very low level of community transmission anyway, but this breach got big, quick.

They are faced with a services economy that requires a lot of face to face transactions, and an economic situation where a very high cost of living basis exists with a lot of (relatively) lowly paid work. ($23/hr might sound awesome in Nepal...) So you get people immigrating and living 10 to a house. This same situation bit Singapore in the ****. So from guards to families to fast food drivers to fast food restaurants with notable outbreaks in abattoirs and meat works. Then it starts coming to schools, which suggests community transmission.

This was bubbling away while restrictions were being eased. It was party time and freedom for Melbourne, they'd got through it, time to have that holiday regionally, weekend trips away. All the while it bubbled away. Then the cases started accelerating, just before school holidays. NSW did not shut the border. School hols had begun in the regions when Melbourne went back into Stage 3. I think what they were trying to do was to keep a lid on it while keeping as much of the economy running as possible. This might have been a false hope, as infections started becoming spread through the workplace. It has become apparent that tougher measures are needed to slow it down quicker, so maybe that's a change in management strategy. The most successful countries dealing with it have locked down hard and early. Pain now, go for a new normal later. The least successful have been muddled in their response, like the UK. I think when they look at how Vic tried to balance both economy and virus, questions might be raised about being behind the speed of spread, confused messaging, and a culture of disobeying.

Anyway, we are here now in very similar conditions to the first national lockdown - even in regions. The virus is more widespread, and community transmission is higher than before, when it was negligible. Getting over 760 cases with no known trace led to the urgent Stage 4 Melbourne lockdown. R0 was tending toward one during Stage 3, but perhaps something shifted? Widespread disobeyance (and idiot stories) couldn't have helped. If the Stage 4 lockdown works like the first national lockdown, then rates will begin to fall and probably fast. We can hope.

The Victoria post-corona will be different to the one before. Many businesses will be in real trouble or close. There will probably be an exodus to the regions, like seen in other nations like USA - those who can afford it. The culture and economy might change, hopefully a return to making things rather than a services economy. The virus will lead to new cautions and needs. We might think we're in trouble now, but there's 5 million+ industrious people here, I reckon the bounce back might surprise everyone - just with new businesses and opportunities.

My 2c

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Daniel Andrews..... the sooner Victoria's situation improves again the better for us all.

with the idiots that have exposed themselves lately, its easy to say that Daniel Andrews is not the biggest contributor to what is happening now.
Who are those idiots that cant even wear a mask for a short period

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

What does Scotland sell here?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

What does Scotland sell here?

Type 26 frigates, laddie

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/work...-on-the-clyde/

(we're building our own, but it's the UK design, with a fair bit done in Scotland)

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by prydey

Don't forget Australia is very multicultural so while some see buying off shore products as being unpatriotic, others do it to support their homeland...

Boycotting overseas product, or calling for trade to cease, does not make you patriotic IMHO. We are a lucky country and a huge part of that can be linked to the surplus generated from international trade. It translates to things that we take for granted, like free / affordable healthcare, affordable education, being able to support the vulnerable etc. Aside from the financial gains, it also gives citizens more freedom of choice.

Originally Posted by roddy1960

How do our Victorian forum members see the overall handling of the pandemic in your State , especially with Daniel Andrews and his team in mind given what's happening at the minute.

Dan has done alright in a very difficult time. So far he has managed to batter away the political cr@p thrown at him, and has kept his focus on the issue at hand. I'm surprised how he has not reacted to some of the stuff being said from the opposition. I'm also a big fan of Sutton, he speaks frankly, with no weasle words or spin. Victoria was always high risk, taking in a huge influx of overseas arrivals. Wasn't it taking in 50% of all international arrivals when the outbreaks happened? Ultimately, mistakes were made (both state and federal), but they are working extremely hard to try remediate. I think they called stage 3 at the right time, and stage 4 at the right time. You cannot blame the premier when 800 people who should be isolating, aren't.