LV Focus XR5 - ABS and DSC Failure Questions

Skid Marx · 20-11-2010, 12:44 AM

Dear Knowledgeable Focusters, advice or comments on the following would be appreciated by this slightly shocked owner.

Situation:- Purchased new 2010 LV XR5 in May. Had it's 3000k 'inspection' - no faults. Driven on smooth roads, no big pot-holes or any undue wheel torture.

Problem:- Having done only 4600ks over the past week I noticed that every morning when arriving at work, I'd have to turn hard right (slowly) to fit into parking space and noticed a sort of low vibration sound similar to disc squeal only lower. Thought nothing of it at first but noticed an accompanying grinding sound towards the end of the week. A quick look at the rotors didn't reveal any scoring or signs that the pads were made of granite etc. Besides, braking at all other times was silent and smooth.

Friday morning (today) extra noticeable grinding sound when hard right turn to park. So, before driving home tonight, I waited 'til the carpark was pretty emprty so I could deliberately try to 'bring it on'. Whatever was going to happen I wanted it to happen there rather than on a busy road. So I turned hard right and drove in circles applying the brakes regularly. Horrible grinding sound from front wheel(s) and brake pedal feels like it's pressed against a rapidly boiling tank with a low rumbling feel.

Now both the ABS and DSC (stability control) warning lights come on even though I'm doing 15ks/hour in a flat dry carpark. Brakes still work fine however I can't change up beyond 4th gear. 5th and 6th seem to be blocked out. Can still get into reverse though.

My main question then is:- is this normal for the higher gears to be blocked out when it's stability system is knackered? I was sure I read about this somewhere in the manual when I got it new, but I can't find it anywhere now. Also, is it a fairly quick item for Ford to replace? It's surely a warranty job, but I'm wondering if this is a common problem with the LV Focus?

**DJM83** · 20-11-2010, 10:20 AM

Never heard of that happening before. Yeah it will be a warranty job take it back and get it looked at as soon as possible, i wouldnt be driving it if didnt have to. Let us know how you go.

marg99 · 20-11-2010, 11:50 AM

The front disc rotor noise if accompanyed by extra brake pedal travel would suggest problems with the front wheel hub bearing. When it gets loose, it allows the disc rotor to move and possibly contact the ABS sensor. But the existance of the gear change problems suggests that may not be the only issue.

Skid Marx · 20-11-2010, 02:06 PM

marg99 - I rang my dealer this morning to book it in first thing Monday. I don't know if the guy I spoke to was a tech, but he said the 5th and 6th gear blocking might be a safety response when it thinks your DSC/ABS can't help you from making a dick of yourself.

Just curious too - does the XR5 have wheel speed sensors on each wheel? And are they some type of magnetic (Hall effect?) device like some tacho heads are? Just wondering if it's been caused by a poorly assembled cable - not having enough length to accommodate the wheel being turned hard right which gradually pulled at the connection until it broke contact totally. If it was sending no pulses when this cable was being stretched, this would make the ABS think I was skidding (at about 2ks per hour!?) and activate the ABS. After it broke completely I guess the system is smart enough to realise the sensor must be faulty. I'll let you know what Ford said.

BTW, does the Focus ABS make a rumbling/boiling sound like your driving on loose gravel?

XR5-Boy · 20-11-2010, 07:59 PM

Interesting issue Skid. I have never come across it in the forums. The 'limp home' system sounds like it's activating as a safety mechanism, so hence the car being limited to 4th gear max. teh DSC controls the brakes at all four corners of the car, so if the sensors are buggered, this would cause undesired results. The car has to know what speed each wheel is doing so i can compensate for wheel spin and correcting the car's travel.

jumbuck · 20-11-2010, 08:17 PM

I had a somewhat similar problem with my LV Diesel (Auto) although I am not sure what parts they share in regards to brakes/abs etc. I would get some really awful scapping noises when trying to park (so turning the wheels a fair way). This would get worse until the car finally went into limp mode (no abs/airbags and didn't like to change gears) Told it was a dodgy wheel bearing. They freplaced that but it came back. They then changed the beaing and hub and all seems ok. Not sure if you are haivng the same problem though.

Skid Marx · 20-11-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumbuck

I had a somewhat similar problem with my LV Diesel (Auto) although I am not sure what parts they share in regards to brakes/abs etc. I would get some really awful scapping noises when trying to park (so turning the wheels a fair way). This would get worse until the car finally went into limp mode (no abs/airbags and didn't like to change gears)

OK thanks for that info. Every bit of knowledge helps when I go to the dealers to get their story. I just took it for a short drive around the block a few times because this is gnawing at me - I'm trying to find any extra symptoms. Amazingly, after starting up with the faults all still there, after only a k or so the warning lights went out and I got my 5th and 6th gears back! "Hooray for Ford" I shouted. "A car that actually fixes itself!"

Unfortunately, it only fixes itself for another k. I slow down to turn right and the brakes grind again, the ABS/DSC warnings come back and when I turn the motor off I get a "Engine Malfunction" message display as well. Plus the information readout goes back to all zeros or "............." I also hear much clicking and sort of electro-mechanical clunking coming from the passenger side floor pan level. Perhaps it's HAUNTED!!!!

Tj-zetec · 21-11-2010, 12:43 PM

I had this same problem about six months ago. And in fact, it just started doing it again this week. Not f-in happy.

The issue (as best as i can tell from the limited explanation I got) is the ESP/ABS sensor has packed it in which is making the ESP system go ape. The grinding is the ABS trying to self test (I think, anyway)and it goes away once the system gives up and goes into limp mode.

The whole hub needs to be replaced as it's all one unit. :/

For mine, limp mode doesn't shut 5th and 6th out but it does make the gearbox go a little funny. As far as I can tell, it feels like it disables the reverse lock out. Changing from 4th to 5th i often get caught on the edge of the gate that goes to reverse. There's nothing stopping me from putting it into reverse (where normally there is a physical lock out once you start moving)

The other thing it does is it (again as far as i can tell) r.etards the timing (c'mon swear filter!, it's the proper term for doing that!

) and fattens the air:fuel mix.
Once it goes into limp mode it gets really cranky to drive, down on power and it pops and burbles a lot more leading to a nice smelly cat converter. It'll probably damage it if i keep driving it.

Anyhow, I'm going to try and book it in our at sinclair in penrith. One of the xr5 forum members (groomy) works out there so hopefully he can get one of the mechanics to explain it in detail for us.

I am a little annoyed this has happened a second time. I hoping that it's the opposite side to what was fixed previously and that its not a reoccurring issue. I'd hate to think how much it's gonna cost out of warranty.

Skid Marx · 21-11-2010, 04:20 PM

Tj-zetec - the grinding noise was mystifying me too. I thought if the rotor was loose, then the wheel - which must be bolted straight onto it - would be wobbly and the brakes would be hilarious at any speed. Mine actually drives fine, so I guess if they have to replace the whole rotor/hub they mean the ABS sensor is built into this assembly.

The fact that it's happening to you again after 6 months puts a nasty dent in one's confidence doesn't it. I bet Her Majesty doesn't have this problem with her corgis.

entheos · 22-11-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj-zetec

I had this same problem about six months ago. And in fact, it just started doing it again this week. Not f-in happy.

The issue (as best as i can tell from the limited explanation I got) is the ESP/ABS sensor has packed it in which is making the ESP system go ape. The grinding is the ABS trying to self test (I think, anyway)and it goes away once the system gives up and goes into limp mode.

The whole hub needs to be replaced as it's all one unit. :/

For mine, limp mode doesn't shut 5th and 6th out but it does make the gearbox go a little funny. As far as I can tell, it feels like it disables the reverse lock out. Changing from 4th to 5th i often get caught on the edge of the gate that goes to reverse. There's nothing stopping me from putting it into reverse (where normally there is a physical lock out once you start moving)

The other thing it does is it (again as far as i can tell) r.etards the timing (c'mon swear filter!, it's the proper term for doing that!

) and fattens the air:fuel mix.
Once it goes into limp mode it gets really cranky to drive, down on power and it pops and burbles a lot more leading to a nice smelly cat converter. It'll probably damage it if i keep driving it.

Anyhow, I'm going to try and book it in our at sinclair in penrith. One of the xr5 forum members (groomy) works out there so hopefully he can get one of the mechanics to explain it in detail for us.

I am a little annoyed this has happened a second time. I hoping that it's the opposite side to what was fixed previously and that its not a reoccurring issue. I'd hate to think how much it's gonna cost out of warranty.

hubs are around $250 list price from memory each. Had to replace them for a customer when the threads on one of his studs were cross threaded.

The other stuff I don't know.

TJ...you should have my number, if not work is 4721 9147 if you need to book. Let me know buddy!

Tj-zetec · 22-11-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entheos

hubs are around $250 list price from memory each. Had to replace them for a customer when the threads on one of his studs were cross threaded.

The other stuff I don't know.

TJ...you should have my number, if not work is 4721 9147 if you need to book. Let me know buddy!

Will do mang, was gonna call you at work this arvo but ran out of time. It's due for it's 30k service too so i'll knock that on the head while I'm at it.

Matt P · 22-11-2010, 07:06 PM

The issue is the tone wheel for the front wheel speed sensors is part of the seal for the wheel bearing. The bearing walks out of its seat only about .5mm to 1mm as the tone wheel is part of the bearing it then moves out of its effective air gap space with the wheel speed sensor. The grinding noise is the abs going off too early due to the corrupt signal comming from that sensor. Parts are available seperate but warranty will want to inspect the hub and bearing so you will get a whole new hub and spindal on which ever side it is my guess will be RHF. When you look at the backs of the bearings you can easily see which one has begun to walk out.

Skid Marx · 22-11-2010, 09:06 PM

OK, took it to the dealer this morning and the verdict shows how clever you guys are.

The predictions that it was the sensor wheel in the hub was 100%. As 'Matt P' (and a few others) pointed out, the bearings can slide which also increases the gap in what I guess must be a magnetic pick up system. This causes my Focus's stability system to make the brakes sound like I was skidding on gravel while actually working pretty well.

They replaced it with a new hub/bearings and of course it was all warranty. My only concern now is how crappy must the assembly process be to allow something as straightforward as pressing bearings into a hub to be so unreliable?

Tj-zetec · 22-11-2010, 10:06 PM

Thanks Matt P +1 for you! However I might understand it a little more completely when i see one, but thats just how i learn stuff

Good to hear you got it straightened out skids. Did you have to wait long for parts? Power Ford had to wait 3 weeks for parts last time this happened to me.

Skid Marx · 23-11-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj-zetec

Good to hear you got it straightened out skids. Did you have to wait long for parts? Power Ford had to wait 3 weeks for parts last time this happened to me.

No waiting that I noticed. I just left it there at 7:30am today and caught the bus to work. It was ready for pick up by mid afternoon. Some of the buses I used today had brakes that sounded worse than mine did!

rand0mn00b · 23-11-2010, 01:10 AM

I had this problem too (tone wheel was faulty) but in addition the CV joints were being chewed through every 10,000KMs

In the end the whole hub assembly was replaced under warranty and it's been good ever since! (hopefully stays that way)

MeAndZeph · 02-04-2013, 11:50 PM

I know it's an old thread, but if anyones interested, I'm dropping my 2011 LV XR5 off to ford tomorrow with symptoms consistent with those described by the OP. Only additional symptoms:

* LCD Display ODO / Trip Meter readings display as dashes instead of numbers
* Can't engage 5th and 6th gear

Just ticked over 25,000kms - still under warranty.

MeAndZeph · 03-04-2013, 10:56 PM

Problem seems to be fixed - covered by warranty.

Solution similar to those mentioned in the previous posts - the guys at ford replaced / repaired the bearing as it had moved / slipped.

Unsure about the hub as the wife picked up the car and didn't ask many questions - didn't get a printout of work done either

atennisplayah · 11-04-2013, 01:32 AM

Yep just as previously mentioned, my 2011 LV focus has had the exact same problem & symptoms. There was grinding sounds that were accompanied with the ESP light being switched on and unable to switch it off.

It is indeed a faulty abs self-check sensor that has come very slightly off its bearing and makes that noise not long after starting the car up. Took it to the ford dealership and they fixed it all up and no issues since

StuNVA · 06-06-2013, 12:05 PM

My son's has 9500ks on the clock and it appears to be doing the same thing.

Is there any contact in ford that I can make to expedite this complaint.

Krystal · 25-08-2013, 09:26 PM

Who in this forum has contacted Ford Australia about these faults.
My xr5 is doing the exact same thing.

st170 Whippet · 30-09-2013, 07:08 PM

Interesting....I had the same issue with my 2010 LV XR5 about 12 months ago. Left hand turn, horrible grinding noise, ABS light latches on. Bearing had shifted, shifted, and Ford fixed under warranty. Car has just started making the same noises, but the ABS is not a latched fail, just the horrible noise, that can happen at speed and is quite disconcerting.
The car is about to go out of warranty for time, but only has 57000km on the clock. So I am taking it in tomorrow to get checked. I may also contact Ford and see if this is a design issue.

rand0mn00b · 01-10-2013, 08:46 PM

my experience is the noise gradually gets worse until the ABS light stays on