HSV Is Working On LPG-Fuelled Cars. - Page 2

**DJR-351** · 25-01-2009, 10:57 PM

I work in the offshore oil and gas industry looking for this ***t, and belive me the surveyors do back flips when they find GAS, crude oil for Petrol and Diesel is old hat, where does the gas come from?? leave whatever crude is down there and let it ferment = GAS....

Anyone who does not look to gas now is going to lose the race, THATS FACT!!

4Vman · 25-01-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

I work in the offshore oil and gas industry looking for this ***t, and belive me the surveyors do back flips when they find GAS, crude oil for Petrol and Diesel is old hat, where does the gas come from?? leave whatever crude is down there and let it ferment = GAS....

Anyone who does not look to gas now is going to lose the race, THATS FACT!!

Hey, there's no doubt LPG is a cost effective basic transport solution... hell, i did a 400km round trip today in a LPG Falcon and @$0.36/l it cost me $14.20!!
That's incredible value.. but the performance market is far more fickle....

Gobes32 · 25-01-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

There's a big difference between wanting Ford/FPV to be the best they can be and being blinded by what ever Holden/HSV wheel out.
They sell more cars largely because of blind brand loyalty and tribalism... not because their products or "innovation" is any better....

But even you would agree that Ford could own the lpg market if they introduced liquid injection. It will only cost $4000 to put my territory on liquid injection so it can't be a cost issue for Ford. I just don't want HSV to beat Ford to this punch.

4Vman · 25-01-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

But even you would agree that Ford could own the lpg market if they introduced liquid injection. It will only cost $4000 to put my territory on liquid injection so it can't be a cost issue for Ford. I just don't want HSV to beat Ford to this punch.

Ford already own it....
For the vast majority of people who would even consider using LPG the current set-up is fine... LPG and Performance are mutually exclusive of each other regardless of what liquid injection can produce.
Even if it can produce comparable performance to PULP "perception" will override "reality" for atleast a decade IMO.
@ $4K for liquid injection it won't get many takers.....

**Polyal** · 25-01-2009, 11:28 PM

If HSV/Holden beat Ford to a new LPG solution then I will have a fit. Not because GM doesn't deserve it, but Ford has been a lone ranger in the field.

I dont quite understand why HSV would bother, but its the usual smoke and mirrors from them. GM cant go a week without making some BS story about themselves to get in the headlines. Tabloid whores they are.

Remember that $4k for LI comes with a $2k rebate. makes it pretty damn cheap IMO. LPG should be where AUSTRALIAN cars are headed, not that hard to supply the country when they already have fuel being delivered out there anyway.

Plus, most people who dont have LPG now will never use it and stick to diesel which 90% of there transport runs on anyway.

Gobes32 · 25-01-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ford already own it....
For the vast majority of people who would even consider using LPG the current set-up is fine... LPG and Performance are mutually exclusive of each other regardless of what liquid injection can produce.
Even if it can produce comparable performance to PULP "perception" will override "reality" for atleast a decade IMO.
@ $4K for liquid injection it won't get many takers.....

That's 4k to duel fuel an existing petrol setup, imagine what price Ford could do for a gas only setup.

With liquid injection, the car behaves like a petrol version, same power, same torque (sometimes more) and no backfires. I understand that current e gas buyers would not be too fussed what system it uses, but imagine the market Ford could tap into if their gas system was more user friendly. The running costs with a camry hybrid would be comparable.

4Vman · 25-01-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That's 4k to duel fuel an existing petrol setup, imagine what price Ford could do for a gas only setup.

With liquid injection, the car behaves like a petrol version, same power, same torque (sometimes more) and no backfires. I understand that current e gas buyers would not be too fussed what system it uses, but imagine the market Ford could tap into if their gas system was more user friendly. The running costs with a camry hybrid would be comparable.

Define "user friendly"?
ford already offer an e gas falcon, its ultra reliable and economical, everything a lpg customer is looking for.
Sure its not as powerful, but lpg customers are shopping for economy, not performance.
I went lpg because i got sick of paying $140 a week to visit customers, now it costs me $50...
Ive never had an issue such as backfiring, rough idle, etc. Every time something like that happens it can be traced back to a hardware/set-up issue, not some inherent lpg gremlin that can't be solved and has to be lived with.....

**DJR-351** · 25-01-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hey, there's no doubt LPG is a cost effective basic transport solution... hell, i did a 400km round trip today in a LPG Falcon and @$0.36/l it cost me $14.20!!
That's incredible value.. but the performance market is far more fickle....

Sorry, but the fact is the performance market dont/wont get a say, it is greener to leave the raw crude in the ground and bleed of the gas, the natural resorces (crude) will last longer that way.

Just look at a picture of a drill/production platform, what do most people notice first, the bloody great flare (flame).

All that Gas is a by product of pumping/drilling crude and is disapaited into the atmosphere by burning off, you do not need to be Einstein to work out the best thing to do.

Australia has huge amounts of gas deposits, and needs to develop its domestic usage to capitalize on them.

The Gas carring ships that carry this stuff around the world use the expanding (bleed off) gas to power themselves, this technology is OLD!!

The Iron ore mining industry in WA converted to Gas Turbines 20 years ago!!

The Auto industry is years behind in implementing/developing technology to fully utilize this resource, whomever comes up with a working/acceptable formula for the auto industry first is going to win.

And if the performance market want to exist, they need to pull out the slide rule themselves.......

Gobes32 · 25-01-2009, 11:50 PM

Your most likely right, the G6 in question has only done 8000kms so it may be found yet.

User friendly is a gas setup that anyone can drive with confidence. Too many people see duel fuel heaps of garbage and naturally associate LPG with unreliable. Don't flame me for that last comment because it is only other people's perceptions.

My boss knows his Falcon will get fixed at the 10k service, he knows it is only something minor causing it (most likely not enough gas at startup) but the fact remains that his wife thinks the car is crap and he wasted his money and want's the tezza back because it was reliable. lol

When I first met my partner and she realized my EA Fairmont Ghia ran on gas, her first question was "Are we gonna blow up?, ha ha"

Liquid injection would be "NEW" gas technology and Ford could market it accordingly, tell people to come in and test drive the car and try to spot the difference, they won't be able to.

Bossxr8 · 26-01-2009, 12:01 PM

Injected LPG should be available with the FG2 next year. With the governments green car funding it will be cost effective for Ford to do.

LPG injection decreases the amount of LPG burned by quite a bit. The current Ford LPG system uses about 30% more LPG than a petrol engine does. I think Injected LPG can get that down to about 10%, with more power and torque, and smoother running.

The good thing for Ford now is that the rebate for factory fitted LPG now matches that of the aftermarket rebate. So its now $2000, not $1000. So technically its $600 cheaper to order an E Gas Falcon than a petrol one, as the option of E Gas is $1400, minus the rebate of $2000.

Gobes32 · 26-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Injected LPG should be available with the FG2 next year. With the governments green car funding it will be cost effective for Ford to do.

LPG injection decreases the amount of LPG burned by quite a bit. The current Ford LPG system uses about 30% more LPG than a petrol engine does. I think Injected LPG can get that down to about 10%, with more power and torque, and smoother running.

The good thing for Ford now is that the rebate for factory fitted LPG now matches that of the aftermarket rebate. So its now $2000, not $1000. So technically its $600 cheaper to order an E Gas Falcon than a petrol one, as the option of E Gas is $1400, minus the rebate of $2000.

That is great news if it happens. Technically it is possible to have a liquid injection turbo motor too......

Imagine that, 270kw and only uses $30 of gas a week. Sign me up.

robertjp · 26-01-2009, 02:20 PM

Does anyone know what system Ford will be introducing? Will it be an LPG only with the option of having dual fuel?

Also what about power/torque/economy fiqures....may be a bit early, but it would be nice to know.

On a different note, would this change be substantial enough to allow entry to WCOTY?